FF7R and Quantum Mechanics w/ Jesse Cox | ProfNoctis Show Ep.15
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:07:02
Evan
Hey, everyone, I'm Evan, and welcome to another episode of The Snack to Show. This week we have the amazing Jesse Cox.
00:00:07:04 - 00:00:23:13
Wade
And I'm Wade, aka Professor Noctis. And you're going to love this interview. For the first hour, we are talking about Jesse's origin story. So if you're a content creator, you're really going to love that. And even if you're not, you're going to hear a lot of stories about his past and things that you can do in your own life.
00:00:23:19 - 00:00:34:27
Wade
just to incorporate some of that stuff. An hour or two is where we get into theories, understanding rebirth. So you're definitely going to want to get into some of that stuff. so excited that you're here. We're gonna have a great episode. And with that.
00:00:35:00 - 00:00:36:07
Evan
Let's mosey.
00:01:03:24 - 00:01:14:13
Wade
Hey, everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of The Prof. Not this weekly show. We are so excited, because Evan and I are joined today by Jesse Cox. Let's go to.
00:01:14:13 - 00:01:17:08
Jesse
Jesse. Oh, hello.
00:01:17:10 - 00:01:41:06
Wade
We are so excited to have you, Jesse, because not only are you, one of the most prolific Final Fantasy creators on fantasy 14, especially, but you are just a prolific creator, period. Like, we were looking over your kind of rap sheet, I guess. And like all of the things that you've been a part of, like, we have no idea how we're going to fit it all into one interview, but we're going to do our very best today.
00:01:41:06 - 00:01:50:14
Wade
So I cannot imagine the the worlds and planets that had to shift for you to make time for this. But thank you so, so much for your time today.
00:01:50:16 - 00:02:00:04
Jesse
Pleasure's entirely mine. I'm a little worried we might be conflating prolific with just like, been around way too long, but I'll take it and I'm not going to tell you otherwise.
00:02:00:06 - 00:02:31:29
Wade
Fair enough. You know, potato, potato. But, yeah, I'll tell you. Like, I, I started watching some of your content during the Final Fantasy 14 law stuff because, like, most of us, who want to do research and understand law, we have no idea whatsoever when it comes to the vocabulary and all that stuff that my favorite video that you posted before we get into anything else was your beautiful description between Astral and Umbral like?
00:02:31:29 - 00:02:49:21
Wade
It absolutely was like, oh, that's how we think of this. It it shifted my worldview entirely of that game. And, I'm always like, you know, anytime I stream it or anything, I'm like, you've got to go check out Jesse's video. because it explains this perfectly. Better than I could. So thank you for that. That was so good.
00:02:49:24 - 00:03:12:26
Jesse
Oh, no. My pleasure. Thank you for watching it. it's one of those things where I am just a big old law nerd when it comes to everything I do. So any game I'm playing, I'm like, what's that mean? How's that work? What's the story's the most important thing. And, it's weird to say that because sometimes I play a game that is truly terrible, but I'm, like, engaged in what's happening, even if mechanically it's bad.
00:03:12:27 - 00:03:32:07
Jesse
I'm like, yo, this is so cool. So, yeah, I'm just obsessed with that kind of stuff. And that comes just from being a big history nerd background. So, like, knowing why things are happening is very important to me. And if there's no connection between them, if I'm doing a thing and you've given me no reason why you should be doing it, I am not invested.
00:03:32:07 - 00:03:34:23
Jesse
I will, just won't do it. I'll be like, nah, I'm all right.
00:03:34:26 - 00:03:37:01
Wade
That is fair. That is fair.
00:03:37:03 - 00:04:01:11
Evan
I think that's a great segue, to getting to know you a little bit before we get into the deep Final Fantasy low or later, whatever you guys want to do. it'll be fun. you studied history and drama in college. I understand, somewhere in New York. But you didn't grow up in New York. Tell me how you ended up at a school in New York based on where you grew up and why you studied drama and history?
00:04:01:14 - 00:04:22:01
Jesse
Sure. Well, so I grew up in Ohio, but I before that was traveling all over the place. My dad was a football coach, and my mom was getting her doctorate at the time. So we were kind of like all over the place. We finally settled down when she was getting her PhD, and we settled in Ohio, and my dad went from becoming a coach to working at a law school.
00:04:22:05 - 00:04:47:23
Jesse
Don't ask me how any of that happens. I was a child. I don't know how any of that works, but, I just sort of like, realized at some point that I enjoyed the storytelling of history. Like, English and history did very well. Science and math, unless it was like Earth science and maybe money based math. Like economics.
00:04:47:24 - 00:05:11:24
Jesse
Yeah, it was not happening. The minute you throw letters into math, I'm like, I don't. What? What do you mean? So that was not but English and history. I was very into and, I also loved drama and acting and doing that kind of stuff. and so, and that literally is just ego boosting. The first play I ever did was, in seventh grade.
00:05:11:26 - 00:05:32:19
Jesse
Mr.. My dream, I played bottom a guy who does a play in a play. And during the end of it where he dies on stage, like dies in the play. In the play, I just kept hamming it up and, like, dying repeatedly on stage and like, well, other people talk, like, get up and die again. And I got a standing ovation at the end and I was like, this is the thing, I'm doing this forever.
00:05:32:19 - 00:05:45:05
Jesse
This is what I love. And so, yeah, that's kind of the vibe of why, even though it's into history, I also liked acting stuff. And so when I went off to college and New York was kind of like, that's where the that's what the Broadway is, you gotta go.
00:05:45:11 - 00:05:47:20
Evan
I'm going into show business, mother.
00:05:47:21 - 00:06:06:11
Jesse
Right, right. Yeah. And so I started working on at a radio station. Oh, cool. And I was doing all sorts of different stuff. but I realized a certain point that while I was pursuing theater, I'm just taking all these other classes. I'm getting the credits for a history degree as well, so, like, why not?
00:06:06:13 - 00:06:06:27
Evan
Okay.
00:06:06:27 - 00:06:21:08
Jesse
And so I just started doing both. And then a certain point I was just, mostly I'm going to blame my parents for this. They were like, you're not going to make any money being in theater. What are you doing? You're going to. And so I was like, well, I guess I could become a teacher. That's fine. And I sort of just got crazy in there.
00:06:21:08 - 00:06:51:05
Jesse
And then I ended up becoming a teacher and, I wanted to do different voice acting things. I definitely got, like, a lot of great auditions for some crazy stuff. But no matter what, I'm be real, real here. I'm not the best actor. Turns out I'm mediocre at best. And so, I focus more on teaching, and it during that time period, while I was teaching, during the summers, I would, you know, do voiceover work for various people are doing wow machinima.
00:06:51:11 - 00:07:23:10
Jesse
And I would, create different videos and throw them on the internet. And so, around 2010, just after everything went to hell financially in the country, they just canned us. all of us. if you were not tenured, you were you. It was it was it was a rough time. So I lost my job. And it was during that time period where my options were either become a sub and as a former nuisance child will say, I was like, no way I'm going to be a sub.
00:07:23:10 - 00:07:50:18
Jesse
That's pure karma. They would destroy. They eat me alive. So I was like, no. And so I, just created videos on the internet. And then one day, my dear friend John Bain was like, yo, do you want to make money doing this? I was like, what do you mean by that? And that was winter 2010. And, by 20th March 2012, I had moved out to LA and have been living here ever since doing this as a real thing.
00:07:50:21 - 00:08:05:10
Jesse
It's crazy that that happened, but I'm convinced, had it not been for the financial crisis that we had as a country, I would have probably still be a teacher because I've always people that like overcommit, you know, I will always be like, I'm not going to leave, I'm going to stay to this. So yeah.
00:08:05:11 - 00:08:06:24
Evan
Yeah, give me two seconds. There's a.
00:08:06:24 - 00:08:07:17
Wade
Silver lining.
00:08:07:20 - 00:08:18:14
Evan
Wait, I'm going to the I'm going to bump down his audio. Just a second okay. No, it's great, it's great. Okay, great. We're good. Now I'll make a note. Thanks for the.
00:08:18:16 - 00:08:24:03
Wade
So there's the silver lining to the financial crisis in, personal.
00:08:24:03 - 00:08:24:29
Jesse
Yes.
00:08:25:01 - 00:08:29:03
Wade
For you. You know, was it worth it for the. Who knows. But for you, it's real, right?
00:08:29:03 - 00:08:32:25
Jesse
Right. I mean, it's one of those things where, you know, sometimes.
00:08:33:02 - 00:08:33:17
Wade
Yeah.
00:08:33:20 - 00:08:55:10
Jesse
When you something bad happens, there is some sort of good that can come of it. And in this case, being completely broke and jobless and having to move home, the flip side was it gave me so much free time that I could sit down and learn to edit and create content and do stuff in a way that I could pump things out and get in on what was really the second wave of YouTube.
00:08:55:12 - 00:09:00:28
Jesse
And because of that, I got to have a career and this is what I do. So amazing. I'm pretty thankful for it.
00:09:01:00 - 00:09:18:21
Wade
Yeah, yeah, no, I listen, I, I say that a little tongue in cheek because, you know, Evan knows that this is kind of my story, too. You know, I was teaching these classes at the University of Alabama on video games and religion and literature and all this stuff, and then Covid happens and, zoom couldn't handle live streaming Final Fantasy 15.
00:09:18:23 - 00:09:36:08
Wade
So I had to go to Twitch and then, like, it just kind of happened because we're all at home and stuff. So like, the very fact that you're on this show right now is because of one of those kind of like, world changing events. There's like, oh, man. So, I appreciate you saying that. You mentioned that you were a teacher.
00:09:36:08 - 00:09:40:20
Wade
I, I want to clarify, were you high school? Middle school? What? A history teacher.
00:09:40:20 - 00:10:00:29
Jesse
Tell us about high school. Yeah, I was a high school teacher. And our school, because they were doing a lot of cost cutting stuff. I taught history, but it became humanities because they were doing English and history in one classroom. So it'd be, a history lesson with a book that in some way related to the topic that we were talking about.
00:10:01:06 - 00:10:14:25
Jesse
And so we'd have to combine things together. And so if it was, something from the 60s, you would try to find a book that defined the 60s, right? As an example. And that's kind of the vibe of what we were doing.
00:10:14:27 - 00:10:18:26
Evan
And it was always the outsider by and.
00:10:18:29 - 00:10:20:09
Jesse
Always.
00:10:20:11 - 00:10:42:17
Jesse
It was, I taught 10th, 11th and 12th graders mostly. My biggest disappointment was that at that level, you're not really teaching anything. You are being told by the state they have tests they need to pass, and if they don't pass them, they don't graduate. So you need to teach to the test, which kind of sucks because the kids had questions about like what was going on in the world.
00:10:42:20 - 00:10:52:27
Jesse
And you had to be like, sure, sure, sure. But have you ever talked about the x, Z affair? And they're like, what? And so it sucks. It sucks to have to do that.
00:10:52:29 - 00:11:15:27
Wade
As an educator, I can completely relate to that. And so I really, really appreciate you saying that. And I have found that in your videos, that same sort of curiosity really comes out. Oh yeah. And stuff like, do you feel as though your history teacher background has lended itself to some of the stuff you do? Law and all of the deep dives you do in your videos?
00:11:15:29 - 00:11:39:04
Jesse
Yeah, I think being able to, create lessons for one, people who are 15, 16, 17, 18 is, something that I just had to learn to do. And it comes down to figuring out what exactly reaches people. And the biggest thing I found out, you need to have that hook. You need to have some investment in what's going on.
00:11:39:11 - 00:11:56:14
Jesse
You need to get them interested in the topic you're talking about. One of my favorite things I always used to do is every time we talk to economics, we get to scarcity. And every time. And boy, do they hate me for this. But I loved it was such a good lesson that day. I'd bring in a bag of candy and just leave it there and be like, take some.
00:11:56:14 - 00:12:11:22
Jesse
Take as much as you want. And the first kids would take as much as they wanted, and by the end there was no the kids who got late, who definitely wanted the candy the most. They got none. And the point I was making is like, there's only so much candy like. And those guys took as much as they wanted.
00:12:11:24 - 00:12:27:27
Jesse
And obviously it'd be like, here, you can have some candy. It's five. But the lesson there was that was just the first five minutes of class, and it was just to get them talking about what had happened. And then it's like, oh, well, that's called this. And now they have a memory of that's what this thing is. And like that kind of thing is the way I would do it.
00:12:27:27 - 00:12:43:08
Jesse
So try to translate that in the videos and trying to be like, okay, we have to talk about, for example, the concept of Astral and Umbral in a video game. That already is confusing. How on earth do we do this? And so you just break it down and chunk it like, here's what it is in the game this way.
00:12:43:16 - 00:13:03:25
Jesse
And then we get deeper and deeper to the point where the end of that video is literally just the concept of color theory. I mean, like, here's why. Sometimes every color makes black and white, sometimes every color makes white. And it's all perspective and how you see things. And that's the way it is in the game. It's that kind of thing where you just have to be like, look, we're going on a journey and by the end you'll get it.
00:13:03:25 - 00:13:07:18
Jesse
But just come with me and let's go on this together.
00:13:07:20 - 00:13:30:19
Evan
You always do your videos, just like this is the way it is for a reason, right? Let's explore what that reason is together in a way that's more fun and engaging. A lot of history, a lot of education, playing video games the whole time. Where did that kind of come in for you? Where did that love for video game start, and how did it influence kind of what got you here?
00:13:30:21 - 00:13:45:13
Jesse
Well, I grew up in the, time period when Nintendo was a thing and every kid on the block had a Nintendo. And so I think because my parents wouldn't let me get one, I loved it even more. I wasn't, but always go over to friend's house.
00:13:45:15 - 00:13:46:11
Jesse
Yeah.
00:13:46:13 - 00:14:00:14
Evan
My parents would I had they would let us build a computer. And if we had a computer and learned how to install games on it, then we were allowed to play video games, and they didn't know how expensive computers were going to be, so it really backfired on them.
00:14:00:17 - 00:14:16:07
Jesse
Yeah, my parents had a computer, but it's mostly from my mom's work, so any access I had to the computer was, like a few games. I remember there was a game called Das Boot where it was just like, you're a sub commander. Yep. And that's. And my dad liked it, so I got to play it, even though to this day he swears he never played video games.
00:14:16:07 - 00:14:33:06
Jesse
But I watched that man with the Game Boy play Tetris way too much. So, Anyway, yeah. So I had that, but I didn't have a Nintendo, and most of the time that resulted in like. All right, well, little Jessie's going to go on a 12 hour bike ride to the middle of nowhere, and I'll be back later.
00:14:33:06 - 00:14:50:05
Jesse
Parents. But, for most of it, I'll just go to a friend's house and watch them play through Super Mario three, or watch them do all that stuff. And it wasn't until Super Nintendo came out that I got one for Christmas, and I was like, yo, I was the first kid in the block to have one. Everyone come over and play Mario World.
00:14:50:05 - 00:15:12:24
Jesse
It was great. And, it was with the Super Nintendo that I found games like Final Fantasy. I love Final Fantasy six. It was three at the time in the US and fell in love with that and got to play with the Super Scope and do all that stuff. I loved it, I and our basement there was like a little side room that I made into, like Jesse's cool kid room, and it had, you know, like a little couch in the TV.
00:15:12:24 - 00:15:35:23
Jesse
And that was pretty much it in that room. And we just, like, jump around and play games. and I did that, like, like a little psychopath through all of my youth and into high school and, into college, when I would sit in the dorms late at night playing StarCraft against randoms. I mean, it was just, something that's always been a part of my life.
00:15:35:25 - 00:15:55:25
Jesse
even when I was down to just. There's a period, 2010 where all I was playing was World of Warcraft. That was. That's all I was doing. and I definitely missed out on some games. I had to go back and play since I was like, how'd I miss this is amazing. But, yeah, I it's always been a part of who I am and what I enjoy.
00:15:55:25 - 00:16:13:14
Jesse
It's sort of like a, escape from just the nonsense of having to do all the work I was doing. Even as a teacher. It's a lot. I don't want to spoil things for everyone who's like, you get the summers off. No, my friend, that does not. That's not how that works. No, it's not you. You. It's like a nice.
00:16:13:14 - 00:16:29:04
Jesse
Okay, I'm going to shut down and just click some things or press some buttons and watch the colors and have a good time. rather than like, oh, God, how am I going to teach this kid this thing? He's asleep and half the classes. What am I like? How do I how do I reach this kid? It's, you know, that kind of thing.
00:16:29:08 - 00:16:35:11
Jesse
And I just. I've done it ever since, and now it's my job, so I do it way more.
00:16:35:14 - 00:16:48:23
Wade
When you started making videos, like, were you still, a teacher at this point? Like, just kind of on the cusp and then really turned it into something after, the, the, the loss of that job?
00:16:48:25 - 00:17:10:08
Jesse
Yeah. I, I started making, Warcraft content. literally just that. So when I played wow, initially when it first came out and stuff, I was in a really hardcore raiding guild. Yeah. And I just it was towards the end of college for me. And so I was like, this is what I'm doing, I love this. We're going eight hours a day sometimes trying to learn this fight.
00:17:10:10 - 00:17:25:21
Jesse
Eventually that had to stop, obviously, but I realized that I still was doing raiding content, but kind of like barely knowing what I was doing. But we're still doing it. And so I started making videos that were like, if I can do this, clearly you can do this. Here's how you beat this boss. And I wanted to help people do that.
00:17:25:26 - 00:17:40:01
Jesse
So that's kind of what the first videos were. And then I started doing like little play, three things in my spare time. And it wasn't until much later that I actually wasn't teaching anymore. I was like, well, I guess this is what I'm doing now.
00:17:40:03 - 00:17:57:28
Evan
What do you find meaningful in the work that you do? The videos that you make, obviously you enjoy doing it because you keep doing it. You're seem like the kind of guy that really tries to focus on things that are fulfilling for you and kind of you derive some meaning from, and if you didn't, then you wouldn't be doing it anymore, right?
00:17:58:00 - 00:18:05:18
Evan
so tell me a little bit about what it means to you to get to do this and what you love about this kind of work that you get to do.
00:18:05:21 - 00:18:23:21
Jesse
I think being able to, create things has always been a part of me that I really want to nurture and, continue to do, even if it's one of those things where people are like, you're not going to make any money doing this thing. I was doing this before there was money involved. It's just part of who I am.
00:18:23:27 - 00:18:43:09
Jesse
I like to, come up with an idea, put it out there and let people be like, it's good or bad, but I just did it. It's done. I always have things up here that I'm like, I got to make that, or else I will go crazy if I don't create this thing. and I guess there's different sides of me.
00:18:43:09 - 00:19:04:23
Jesse
So sometimes I'll create content that's just pure silly, goofy, and sometimes I'll create content that is more of a here's a lorry or historical thing or that kind of stuff. Sometimes, years and years and years ago, I made a video, called Jesse Explains America Black Friday, and it was it's I don't make five minutes. It's just me trying to explain to people, and there's no follow up.
00:19:04:26 - 00:19:22:08
Jesse
There's no anything else. There's no series, Jesse explains. America. It's just this what Black Friday was. And, the whole point was like, I can't explain it like that. They go for the end. It's like, I don't have an explanation for this. People just would gather and fight over like an already way too expensive TV that they pretended was cheaper.
00:19:22:08 - 00:19:23:10
Jesse
Like, it's it's crazy.
00:19:23:12 - 00:19:26:01
Evan
Yeah, someone got it in a Walmart over a Tickle Me Elmo.
00:19:26:01 - 00:19:41:18
Jesse
Yeah, yeah. If anything, I would make a video. Now that's like, what happened to that when you all collectively decided that sucked and now no one does it anymore? But is it because it sucked, or is it because companies were like, hey, what if we do a Thursday thing? What if we do a week thing? What if we do a whole month?
00:19:41:21 - 00:20:00:29
Jesse
And so I yeah, that's a whole other video to make. But it's that kind of place where I was just like creating to create and sometimes you would get history side Jesse and sometimes it'd be like wacky, goofy Jesse and it's just kind of whatever I feel. And thankfully, I'm blessed that I have an audience who's like, man, whatever works for you will watch.
00:20:00:29 - 00:20:04:22
Jesse
And so it's cool. Very thankful for that.
00:20:04:25 - 00:20:22:11
Wade
Yeah, that's one of the challenging things about having an audience. that's like, you know, they can be on board for a certain campaign or topic or series or something and then jump at the next one. I'm it's very unlike what we do in the classroom, where you have a captive audience and it's like, how do I make this interesting for them?
00:20:22:11 - 00:20:47:11
Wade
Because they're going to be there no matter what, because they're forced to. But like, somehow you have been able to, kind of gather groups of people that are just interested in what's he going to do next and stuff. and we, we have so many creators and people that are trying to ask us and talk about what they think is kind of that secret sauce of some, of sorts.
00:20:47:14 - 00:20:55:07
Wade
What do you credit? Why do people watch your content, do you think if you had to put a, a word to it or phrase?
00:20:55:09 - 00:21:19:10
Jesse
I imagine at this point it's mostly people who, are either one and Final Fantasy in that space to have just watched. So long that I'm now a part of their life now. Three pure nostalgia. 4 or 4. They stumble upon it, they're like, oh, this seems interesting, but I, I think the biggest thing is that the space right now is really crowded.
00:21:19:12 - 00:21:51:24
Jesse
There's a lot of YouTube and Twitch and content creation going on, and it only gets more and more and more crowded as time goes on. And so, new people coming in, I think I just stopped concerning myself with, like, how do I get new people to watch? What? just because one my audience skews older. Anyway, I've always for the, for the vast majority of my time being here, everyone usually things like 13 to 17 or 18 to 24 is the vibe, 24 to 35 is where I operate at.
00:21:51:24 - 00:22:03:15
Jesse
It's been that way for years. And, that's just it's like a different experience. I'm not trying to like, get the scarcity raise or whatever the hell people are into.
00:22:03:16 - 00:22:08:00
Wade
This new video is. I'm so glad you said that on this podcast.
00:22:08:03 - 00:22:08:13
Evan
that's all right.
00:22:08:17 - 00:22:11:07
Jesse
Yeah. I'm trying to. I got you guys. I got you on board for the.
00:22:11:09 - 00:22:12:28
Wade
Excuse now algorithm. Thank you for.
00:22:12:29 - 00:22:14:21
Jesse
That.
00:22:14:23 - 00:22:35:23
Jesse
And I I'm not in that space. I'm doing something totally different. And so, I understand that there's a need to get new eyes and new people invested, but most of that comes from younger spaces and people who are like, oh, this is interesting. I'm just doing this because it's what I love to do. And, if you know, I can do it forever, great.
00:22:35:23 - 00:22:58:18
Jesse
If not, that's fine too. I'm going to keep doing the things I enjoy because I learned a long time ago I'm not going to chase trends or do any of that. It is so exhausting and I just don't have the patience for it anymore. I'm like, nah, dude, I'm too old for that. So yeah, I just kind of hope that me liking something will translate into, oh, that person seems to enjoy the thing that I do.
00:22:58:18 - 00:23:06:05
Jesse
I watch rather than what do people want? And how can I do that? Right? It's it's it seems like a fool's errand to do that.
00:23:06:08 - 00:23:31:07
Evan
You talked, about your good friend, John Bane. Right? Let's say that, right? Yeah. Yep. Total biscuit. And some folks may not be familiar. and I know that he passed away in 2018, and he was really impactful on a lot of people. I wonder if you could talk a little bit and explain to folks kind of who he was, but more who he was to you, and how, it contributed to kind of who you are today.
00:23:31:07 - 00:23:46:16
Evan
And, I just I'm really curious, because we watch his videos all the time. All my friends. I mean, he just was the first one to be so witty and direct and and maybe it was just the accent. Right. But you can tell me what what the truth is behind that.
00:23:46:18 - 00:24:15:23
Jesse
The accent does do a lot of carrying. I've noticed things to all my Brits out there. You are lucky you are winning or you've got like a few feet ahead of us. but, just like with zero say shame. I will say this, John, is the reason why I have a career. I think it's very safe to say that had I not been a part of the confessional podcast or the podcast, you just podcast or whatever the hell we call it, our various iterations, I would not be as successful as I am today.
00:24:15:26 - 00:24:33:05
Jesse
I definitely would still be doing this to some extent, but nowhere near where I'm at. And, I wouldn't have met as many people and had as many opportunities without him. he was kind of like a force on the internet at the time, where he just was the guy who was like, I'm going to tell you about a thing.
00:24:33:08 - 00:25:01:08
Jesse
And even if it's 25 minutes me complaining about FOB sliders, I will make sure you hear about this new game or issue or whatever. And, he very much came across as like an authoritative figure. The best part is, is knowing him behind the scenes is just a goofball. One of my favorite people just complete. It's very funny to me when people, have this impression of his being an extremely serious and very, like, confrontational, like, here's what I think about this.
00:25:01:08 - 00:25:23:09
Jesse
And, totally different outside of camera, just like a very genuine, nice person, absolute joy to be with. In fact, 90% of the time, my whole job, I felt, was to make him not only laugh, but break the like, yeah, cynical Brit persona and just be himself. And it's all I wanted to do. And so you can see it sometimes I would definitely get him.
00:25:23:09 - 00:25:46:29
Jesse
And I'm like, yeah, I felt really good about it. Yeah. But yeah, it's one of those things where I think is and all those different shows that he was working on were a pretty fundamental, component of what not just YouTube videos are, but what YouTube criticism is of other things. And so, yeah, I understand why he had such an impact on people and especially myself.
00:25:46:29 - 00:25:49:23
Jesse
So like, I get it.
00:25:49:26 - 00:25:56:10
Evan
Yeah. It. How long did it take him to cook up these video ideas?
00:25:56:13 - 00:26:15:18
Jesse
Great question. I would say for the most part I feel like he pressed record and just went, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, but a thing would happen and then a video would be up. And I don't know if he spent all day working nonstop doing it or if he just was like, record. 40 minutes later, he's like, and now I'm done.
00:26:15:20 - 00:26:19:18
Jesse
Genuinely do not know. The man was a mystery to me.
00:26:19:18 - 00:26:37:19
Evan
I feel like he came out of the womb and he was like complaining about the check in process at the hospital with like, snarky humor and like, great criticism. Maybe just because he heard his mom talking about it or something, like he just had that kind of natural vibe to make you laugh and say some things that were really serious and really made you think.
00:26:37:19 - 00:26:56:16
Evan
But then, right when you're almost done processing, he hits you with another one out of nowhere, and the pacing on the things that he did was just it was just incredible. It was. We all tried to imitate his voice. None of us could do it. And, it still reminiscent of how a lot of my close friends and I will jabber about video games today.
00:26:56:16 - 00:27:12:04
Evan
You know, the high paced, high intense, like level of discussion. And, you know, we just love each other. And he kind of gave us that permission to be critical but loving of something at the same time. Is that accurate to his personality? And what did you experience as you worked with him?
00:27:12:06 - 00:27:36:26
Jesse
Oh, it was pure snark, and I'm totally fine with that. one of our dear friends. Friends. Or he would just rib him ruthlessly, constantly. One of my favorite, dinner memories is we all went out to dinner at this very fancy steakhouse. It was beautiful. But Crenshaw shows up in, like, sweatpants and a t shirt that was his own merch.
00:27:36:29 - 00:27:53:29
Jesse
And so sitting down to order was hilarious. Everyone's dressed up, but he like Rolls Rosen. And the entire time job was just like, over and over and over again. But like, it was purely out of love because we all know who Crenshaw is as a person, and we know he was going to do that. We just couldn't believe it happened.
00:27:54:00 - 00:28:19:20
Jesse
We were like, it was so funny. And, that kind of experience where it's just, friends hanging out is like the best memories I have. Yeah. But I will say, going back to his videos, I think he was gifted the ability to just talk not just fluently, but in a way that seemed effortlessly that I think so many people did not have access to.
00:28:19:25 - 00:28:41:15
Jesse
There are many people on YouTube that do have that where they can sit there, and it seems like words come out and they sound like the exact word it needs to be at the exact time or exact pace. That is not a skill I have. I will stumble over myself. I will sit there. If you watch old podcasts I'm trying to think of like, how do I say the thing I want to say?
00:28:41:17 - 00:28:57:02
Jesse
He just had it. And again, I don't know if that was the secret behind it was he had sat down and wrote out an amazing script beforehand and was like, I'm in the zone. Or if he genuinely made it just come out and this is what he had to say. Either way, an incredible talent either way.
00:28:57:02 - 00:29:23:17
Evan
So I love the mystery behind it. I think that's one thing that really has set my conversations with Wade apart over the years, is talking around something deeply, digging into it and getting frustrated with the, like, knowledge that we're never going to know, and then helping each other learn to accept that it's just fun. And it's a little more fun to wonder together because you're not trapped in this kind of prison of your own mind.
00:29:23:20 - 00:29:31:23
Evan
Wade, as we kind of start to transition into some kind of Final Fantasy talk and things like that, do I have time to ask about Monster Prom?
00:29:31:26 - 00:29:34:08
Wade
Oh, you got to. We got to talk about.
00:29:34:09 - 00:29:39:03
Evan
Do you mind? Do you mind? Okay.
00:29:39:05 - 00:29:45:03
Evan
Can I have the origin of where the idea came from?
00:29:45:05 - 00:30:10:29
Jesse
so I, in 2017, played a early alpha version of Monster Prom, and, it was done by the beautiful glitch team. They're amazing. And I messaged them, like, how can I help this become a reality? Oh my God, I would love to be involved. And, from that point on, we we worked together, I, as a producer, helping fund different things.
00:30:11:02 - 00:30:38:09
Jesse
And, at that point it was just kind of like, okay, here's my one mandate. I don't care what you guys do. This is what I want. I have for a long time aspired to. Sorry to make this the craziest interview ever. I have sometime aspired to the theory of Overwatch, and Overwatch is a game I don't think sold as a shooter, but as a pseudo dating sim, and that there is a character for everyone to fall in love with.
00:30:38:09 - 00:30:56:05
Jesse
Oh yeah. Okay. And normally that's not how I describe it. It's a little more swear word, but there's something for everyone there. Yeah. And I was like. And I was like, I need that in this game. When you have a character that everyone because the game is monster problem, you want to date these characters, take them to the prom even though it's a competitive game.
00:30:56:06 - 00:31:09:18
Jesse
Yeah, it's a goofy game. It's a game where you're like playing with your friends, you're making stupid choices, and you're trying to, like, screw each other out of going to prom. But there needs to be someone for everyone to really fall in love with and want to go. Yeah. So every character needs to hit that thing for someone.
00:31:09:24 - 00:31:24:14
Jesse
And as the franchise has grown, there are more and more of those where there's something for everyone. So it's not only are you playing a character, but you're also going to pick one to hang out with. And then like when they show up again, like, oh, so that's kind of where I was. I was like, I don't care what you all do.
00:31:24:15 - 00:31:31:14
Jesse
You're doing great so far. Just give me that. And they succeeded, I think tremendously and it's absolutely what I love about it.
00:31:31:17 - 00:31:39:22
Evan
They did a great job. Now did they have to encrypt the character models for Monster Prom as well, like they did with Overwatch and tried to do or is.
00:31:39:24 - 00:31:51:28
Jesse
You know, if anything we have been like, please enjoy your fantasy, live your life. We don't care if someone wants to start making source filmmaker versions of our characters. Go have fun. We love you.
00:31:52:00 - 00:32:12:09
Evan
Can you talk a little bit about, that more about the studio that created Monster Prom? and I think I think they deserve a lot of credit, which you've already started playing, but. Yes, just. And I realized that I didn't follow my own rule. One of my jobs on the show is to make sure that everybody kind of has the same groundwork of knowing what something is before we just run off and talk about it.
00:32:12:15 - 00:32:16:08
Evan
And so Wade is probably like, oh my gosh, he didn't do the context. I know.
00:32:16:10 - 00:32:28:20
Wade
Listen, I was over here saying you. It's like you always have to be like, hey, break down this thing about Final Fantasy because not everybody knows that. And all of a sudden I'm like, hey, Evan, not everybody knows about monster from my brothers.
00:32:28:22 - 00:32:31:09
Jesse
So monster problem is, I will. Yeah, well.
00:32:31:11 - 00:32:43:15
Evan
Why don't you? I would love for you to explain the concept of what it is, and then just tell us a little bit about, like, the creativity that you experience with that studio. and then a little bit maybe about their process that you thought was pretty special.
00:32:43:17 - 00:33:12:06
Jesse
Sure. So, first off, just giving the studio as much love as possible. beautiful glitch. Is a Spanish studio there. Incredible. my dear, dear, sweet, sweet friend Julian is a just one of the. The best way to describe it is every character is based off someone. He knows that anything about him is a person. Right? So, in my mind, I see him just like at a club somewhere getting ideas.
00:33:12:09 - 00:33:40:22
Jesse
the entire team, from writers to artists to, music is just so well done. And we have created everything from, stories that are incredibly goofy and very vulgar to stories that are pretty existential. In our most recent game, Road Trip, there is an ending that is like, designed to make you cry. And so we have done a lot of really cool things with it.
00:33:40:25 - 00:34:01:04
Jesse
breaking fourth walls, all that kind of stuff. But Monster Promise a property is a conceit that, in a world of monsters where instead of, Pokemon, they're Pokemon, and it's just like a dude going to work like businessman is one of the cards he would draw, like that kind of vibe where it's just a flip of reality.
00:34:01:07 - 00:34:20:26
Jesse
but also nothing's taken seriously. So, for example, there is a character, Paulie, who is a ghost, and you may say, well, if they're monsters, who's the ghost of don't ask questions. This is what I'm saying to you. Who cares where that ghost came from? In fact, no one does. The whole point is that every single time she talks about when she died, it's a different story of how she died.
00:34:20:26 - 00:34:45:06
Jesse
Very similar to, like, The Joker and Dark Knight. It's just a different story every time. Who knows? And so there's, you know, devils and vampires and werewolves and gorgons and all sorts of stuff in this world. And the story we're telling is it's just a spooky high and you're trying to go to prom, and the whole thing is all these monsters who are just terrible because they're monsters.
00:34:45:06 - 00:35:03:16
Jesse
They're terrible people, but they all love each other. And you're trying to go to prom with one of them. And so there are characters that you can play as. And the whole thing is think of it like a dating sim, but multiplayer, and it's designed to be played with friends so you can screw them out of dates. So the three of us were playing and we all wanted to go on a date with one person.
00:35:03:19 - 00:35:19:10
Jesse
Not only will we have to have the right stats, we'd have to, do things, you know, woo them in some sort of fun way, but then also ensure that the other two do not. And then at the end, it's revealed who goes to prom. And, sometimes you can just go by yourself. Sometimes you don't go at all.
00:35:19:13 - 00:35:39:15
Jesse
Sometimes you end up in the orgy ending. Who knows? But it's it's there's many ways to do it. And so there's monster prom, then the sequel, Monster Camp, which was just, you know, you're at camp and then Monster Road Trip, which was more of a choice based. Navigate around the map and different things change direction. And then the next one coming soon, Monster Con, which is a convention.
00:35:39:15 - 00:35:41:02
Jesse
So. Oh, wow.
00:35:41:05 - 00:35:55:16
Evan
Okay. Are you allowed to talk about that at all? Because this idea of a dating sim that crashed into Mario Party and it just works and it's hilarious, really has played. So anything that we're allowed to know about the new one, anything that you just.
00:35:55:17 - 00:36:16:23
Jesse
Imagine the exact same idea of, going to convention, seeing all the different booths getting caught up in convention shenanigans. But at the same time, it's some of it's some of the different characters from the previous one, some new characters. Okay. and they all go to a convention together. And the idea is you're just trying to, like, hook up at the convention, man.
00:36:16:29 - 00:36:40:10
Jesse
But obviously it's going to be wacky and silly. And the whole real true premise is to make you laugh. That's the from the base conceit of the game is it's just supposed to be fun. And if you play with other people and you do it on stream, or you play it with friends and you make up silly voices for the characters, getting you like, you know, you do a thing, and then the next thing you know, it's goofy as hell.
00:36:40:11 - 00:36:57:27
Jesse
Like a great example is in Road Trip, one of the towns you visit is being attacked by a giant kaiju, and you have three options on how to deal with it. And one of them is straight up just like make a giant mech, right? Like, yeah, we're going to fight it. But by making a giant mech, you know, the kaiju falls in love with you.
00:36:57:27 - 00:37:07:21
Jesse
And so now it's just like, all right, are we hooking up with this? Is this is this happening right now? And that's kind of where you can go with it, right? That's it's like, screw it, let's have fun. That's that's the whole vibe. And it's amazing.
00:37:07:26 - 00:37:14:12
Evan
Oh that's great. Well, I thank you for sharing about it. I won't ask any more monster questions. Wait I promise.
00:37:14:19 - 00:37:36:09
Wade
Well, now I have so many questions. This thing could go on forever. I mean, after months, that is the point. You've got, like, I want Monster University that you might have to fight Disney for that. but like that would be for Monster Suburb's monster neighborhood. As your audience ages like those of us that live like in certain areas, it's like, okay, how can we screw over our neighbors?
00:37:36:15 - 00:38:01:08
Jesse
Am I and I think it's a it's a great canvas to create other things. You're absolutely right. There's different ways of gameplay. There was one that we had talked about before that is still kind of like existing, but not really, which is more of a, it's like a snowball fight version where two of the main characters who have always butted heads, sort of divide everyone and it becomes a different experience, a different type of game.
00:38:01:08 - 00:38:20:19
Jesse
Okay. And so there's different ways to do things, but it's very clear that for the most part, people really like just getting with friends together and playing sort of the Mario Party version of we're going to get together tonight and we're going to spend two hours doing this thing. It's gonna be absolutely goofy, and that's that's where we're at, and I'm perfectly happy to offer it to the world.
00:38:20:19 - 00:38:21:26
Jesse
Yeah, yeah, more to come.
00:38:21:26 - 00:38:40:12
Evan
It's an amazing thing that you inject in people's lives. Like, yes, unexpected joy and like common shared memories. To be able to talk together is an awesome thing, to be able to give to people digitally. And, my friends and I at least are very appreciative of, the studio and you for your work on it. Thank you.
00:38:40:12 - 00:38:42:24
Evan
It comes through. We've had a great time with it.
00:38:42:27 - 00:38:58:27
Jesse
Thank you so much. Yeah. I, I also get to do the voice acting, which I love, and, spoilers. I get to do some pretty amazing voices, like bowl of salad and snake with lisp, all sorts of good ones. I like it's fans I really love that's perfect.
00:38:58:29 - 00:39:01:11
Evan
You have a favorite character voice?
00:39:01:14 - 00:39:07:07
Jesse
in the upcoming one, I play one of the characters you can pick. He's a big old blob boy and he's a sweetheart, so.
00:39:07:14 - 00:39:09:06
Wade
Oh, can I can you give us a taste?
00:39:09:06 - 00:39:11:12
Evan
Yeah, can I can, yeah. Could you want me to. You've been.
00:39:11:12 - 00:39:12:28
Jesse
Getting, you've you've had.
00:39:13:00 - 00:39:13:21
Jesse
To get it. Oh.
00:39:13:28 - 00:39:16:09
Jesse
This is. Yeah. This is the voice. It's just me.
00:39:16:11 - 00:39:17:26
Jesse
This is the first time. It's just.
00:39:17:28 - 00:39:25:27
Jesse
Yeah. Usually do it like, hey, I'm doing the thing. This is just straight up just. It's me. So very. You know, it's probably the best role I've ever had.
00:39:25:29 - 00:39:26:23
Jesse
Yeah.
00:39:26:26 - 00:39:29:07
Evan
For the most authentic for sure.
00:39:29:09 - 00:39:31:29
Jesse
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:32:02 - 00:39:49:01
Wade
It's great. Well, one of the things that I love about your content, what I'm loving about, this game series, and I really do hope that you would consider a monster college one. Come on down to Bama. I'll take you to the fraternity and sorority houses. Just understand the drama. Oh, my monster rush would be amazing.
00:39:49:03 - 00:39:51:27
Jesse
Monster rush is a fantastic idea. Yeah, that'd be fun.
00:39:51:29 - 00:39:53:05
Wade
Okay, come on down to Bama.
00:39:53:11 - 00:39:55:20
Jesse
Well, we'll make it work.
00:39:55:23 - 00:40:21:13
Wade
but what I love about this is that you do create communities around the content that you have created, right? Whether it's, listening to a lore video from Final Fantasy 14 or whether it's geek enders or your Unsolved Mysteries, Final Fantasy seven remake that video, all of it is so invitational where you're having a conversation with people through the screen and they feel like they know you.
00:40:21:15 - 00:40:47:24
Wade
and that's one of that. That is something that that people practice so much to try to do. And for you, it seems just very, very effortless. maybe it's from theater background, maybe it's history. I don't know. but it is, it's remarkable. So I did want to comment on that. And have you found that there have been pockets of communities that have kind of surprised you in the content that you've created?
00:40:47:26 - 00:41:18:10
Jesse
I mean, I think it's surprising to see how genuinely and, I don't know if it's, you know, there are in everything, but genuinely and generally Final Fantasy 14 has been very welcoming and super chill. I love talking with them about stuff. For the most part, I think conversational discussion and things that I do, is really kind of based off the fact that I can't do what, for example, John did.
00:41:18:12 - 00:41:34:25
Jesse
I can't sit there and be hypercritical. I cannot review to save my life. It is not something I do when I do reviews. It's me just being like, here's some wacky stuff I just like is playing this and made me think of this and this is thing. It's really just reflections on things rather than like, here's my thoughts.
00:41:35:02 - 00:42:04:26
Jesse
I wouldn't trust me on a review. I don't necessarily know how to do a review. Well, I would say I have opinions and thoughts that I think I can get across that people, will relate to. And by all means, please continue to support that. But yeah, if I was to give you, you know, mechanically why something doesn't work or why I think this feature is terrible, it's not really something I particularly care too much about.
00:42:04:28 - 00:42:34:08
Jesse
again, like I said in the beginning, I'm really here for the story. I'm here to experience something. I want to go on an adventure or some sort of like experience with the game rather than, you know, concern myself with the settings or, you know, how long it took to beat a boss or what the, you know, difficulty spikes were things like that that people genuinely care about, that I, can't really critique in a way that would seem natural, let alone authentic.
00:42:34:10 - 00:42:52:23
Jesse
So I just won't do it. And that forces me to do this, where we just talk about things rather than, you know, sit here and, you know, like pontificate on what was great about this game compared to the previous one, which was by far, a lesser example of the game. I just can't do that. I couldn't even do it right then.
00:42:52:26 - 00:42:53:20
Jesse
Yeah.
00:42:53:23 - 00:42:56:17
Wade
Well, get ready, because we're about to do that with Final Fantasy.
00:42:56:20 - 00:42:59:12
Jesse
Yeah. Oh, no.
00:42:59:14 - 00:43:22:17
Evan
You're going to be okay real quick though. Briefly. How did you find that style? You talk about differentiating yourself from kind of John style. Was there a process that was involved? We have a lot of people who listen and watch, who are very creative and have a lot of questions about how to find themselves, their style. Wade deals with it in the classroom a lot, helping people kind of figure out what those forks in the road are for them.
00:43:22:22 - 00:43:29:22
Evan
What was it for you, and maybe what advice would you give based on your experience to people who are kind of on that journey.
00:43:29:24 - 00:43:51:03
Jesse
Trial and error? Just do it. And if it works for you, great. And if it doesn't, try something else. Find the things that you feel comfortable with. Even if the video isn't a huge success. If you put it out and you are completely satisfied with the product you created, then that's that tells you something about not only yourself, but also what your expectations of yourself are.
00:43:51:05 - 00:44:13:09
Jesse
And, just keep, you know, once you're in that space, then tweak that and keep trial and error until you get there. But no matter what you're going to create and you're going to make something new, and the whole process of creation is continuing to make something new and something fresh and something that is both who you are, but also kind of like reaching out a little bit and extending and trying to do something different.
00:44:13:16 - 00:44:36:09
Jesse
And sometimes you land it and sometimes people are like, what is this? And that's fine. It's totally fine to not do well on something. There's been times where I've done videos that have gotten millions of views, and sometimes where no one watched that video, and it's totally okay. It's super fun to do that. you just have to learn that it's it's all right, and you're just still all right.
00:44:36:09 - 00:44:54:03
Jesse
On to the next one. You put something out. I think maybe that's from auditioning, when you would audition for voice roles or whatever. You send it and forget it, because if you think about it, you're stressed over it. And who knows what the company or the studio is thinking, because in their mind, they know what they're already looking for.
00:44:54:05 - 00:45:12:15
Jesse
Sure. And so you're just one of thousands of people, potentially, who are sending a thing. And if you're not immediately what they're looking for, they're in the trash. And that's fine. You just keep sending it and then eventually you will get something. And that's just the process for everyone. I think that's the same thing with YouTube, is you just keep creating and doing it over and over.
00:45:12:15 - 00:45:35:01
Jesse
It's consistency. It's about creating a foundation where most people, I think are more like me. There are some people on YouTube who they make three videos and have 5 million subs, and they're the best people you've ever seen. Oh, they're so talented. But most people create stuff and it takes time. You build an audience slowly. Over time, more and more people join.
00:45:35:04 - 00:46:01:02
Jesse
it took me ten years to get a million subscribers, so, like, you know, I'm clearly not in any rush. And I feel like many people think, oh my God, I should be. I've been making videos every day. Why are people watching? Sometimes it just takes one video and suddenly you have an audience. and it just happens and you won't know why, and you'll just like, I don't know why people watch this, but like, thank you.
00:46:01:04 - 00:46:09:05
Jesse
And then then you go from there, but just keep creating, keep making stuff and, try different things and see what works for you.
00:46:09:08 - 00:46:15:11
Evan
Wait, I saw your eyes perk up at the same statement, and I'm wondering if you have a similar follow up. Do you want to ask yours.
00:46:15:11 - 00:46:37:24
Wade
That idea that you bring up of, send it and forget it. You know, as soon as you, you create something, you put it out in the world, you're satisfied with it. You can't linger on it too much. You really remind me. And I was I was going to ask if you had read this book. there's a book out by Rick Rubin, who founded, like, Def Jam Recordings and all that kind of stuff.
00:46:37:24 - 00:46:59:04
Wade
A book called The Creative Act A Way of Being. And in this, it's like, reflections on, the Art of creation. And one of the things that he says is when you put something there, it is right there, way out into this world. When you put it out into the world, it's done. And you can't linger on it.
00:46:59:10 - 00:47:15:02
Wade
The the finished product is what it is, and you can't change it. And I, I think back to some of my earliest videos shoot, maybe a video I put out a week or two ago and I'm like, oh, I would do this differently, or that sound effect or something like that, but you just send it and forget. I love that.
00:47:15:02 - 00:47:35:15
Wade
That's very freeing, freeing to me, and I hope it's freeing. To all of our viewers, to my students that are listening, maybe for homework that I've required before you, whatever it is there. but yeah, no, that's that's really, really compelling stuff. did you ever have a video that you put your heart and soul into and you were like, oh man, why didn't this catch like this caught me?
00:47:35:16 - 00:47:38:00
Wade
Why didn't it catch them so often?
00:47:38:06 - 00:47:49:27
Jesse
I can't even express you how many times I've created something where it's been a passion project of mine. I put it out. No one cared. And then on the flip side, a video that I spent an hour working on. Like, maybe just me reacting to a thing.
00:47:50:02 - 00:47:50:25
Wade
Yeah.
00:47:50:27 - 00:48:10:29
Jesse
And it blew up. And I was like, that doesn't seem fair at all, but it is what it is. And, yeah, I, I although I haven't read the book, I've seen so many interviews and the idea still comes across the idea of just being like, yeah, I, I made a thing, I put my passion into it and my energy and it's made.
00:48:10:29 - 00:48:27:27
Jesse
It's like it exists, it's its own thing. And I will say frequently, I'll put out a video that I don't think does very well, and then I'll go back a year later and somehow it has numbers. yeah. I'm like, I don't know when that occurred. I know how people found it. It wasn't on my radar anymore. I was not thinking about it.
00:48:27:29 - 00:48:51:14
Jesse
And suddenly it's got a bunch of people watching it. I'm like, oh, it just somehow happened. And yeah, it goes against algorithmically, which I hate algorithms. Oh boy. But it goes against the idea of YouTube's all about in the first hour. You have to have this many views, and after that, the first day, in order to get eyes on it and have it sent to people, you have to have this many people watching it.
00:48:51:17 - 00:49:06:07
Jesse
And sometimes that doesn't happen for me. Frequently that doesn't happen, but it's also because my audience skews differently and they're older. They got stuff to do, man. So when they finally have free time to watch it, maybe 2 or 3 days later, maybe five days, maybe a week later.
00:49:06:10 - 00:49:07:10
Wade
Yeah.
00:49:07:12 - 00:49:15:29
Jesse
And by that point, I'm already onto another project. I'm thinking something else, so I'm not even looking at that. So when I eventually see it show up in my feed, I'm like.
00:49:16:01 - 00:49:16:24
Jesse
Okay.
00:49:16:26 - 00:49:32:17
Jesse
I'm glad people watch that. And it's something that I think is, you know, just something you learn to do. I don't know that you can do it right away. I feel many people, when they create a thing, they're going to obsess over the thing they created. I know I did years and years ago, but I've been doing this for 15 years.
00:49:32:19 - 00:49:47:02
Jesse
So, you know, at this point I'm like, no, just ship it. Let's go. Let's move on to something else. Otherwise you would one go crazy about something you already did, and to focus on something you already did without creating something new. And that just stops the whole creation process.
00:49:47:05 - 00:49:54:09
Evan
That makes total sense. And this I have one more follow up and then I'll wait. I'll, I'll, I'll let you loose on him with the Final Fantasy.
00:49:55:17 - 00:49:56:29
Wade
It's like keeping me at the gates.
00:49:57:00 - 00:49:59:15
Evan
And I hold them back. Let me in.
00:49:59:17 - 00:50:05:24
Jesse
Let me in. so. So you.
00:50:05:24 - 00:50:26:28
Evan
Came up. you said a statement. you said it tells you what your expectations of yourself are. And you said it very casually, and it fell out of your mouth. Like, that's something that everyone says all the time, but it seems like that's something that kind of is something that you've developed, that you speak now. Is that something that you were spoken to, that you picked up on?
00:50:27:01 - 00:50:31:11
Evan
and what do you mean by that? And what does it mean to you?
00:50:31:13 - 00:51:06:29
Jesse
Well, I think learning not only about who you are, but about the sort of level at which you want to operate is very important. I think we see YouTube as the most successful people that exists. When you go on YouTube or the front page, if you are not signed into your own stuff, the stuff you see our multi bajillion view videos by people who are incredibly successful, who will make more money than I will ever see, and they sort of set this bar of what you can expect.
00:51:07:01 - 00:51:26:01
Jesse
And I think that is a complete fallacy and people fall for it frequently. It's the same idea of when you think of a football player or an actor, or you only see the most successful people, yet there are thousands and thousands, millions of people trying to do the same thing who are doing it, but not at that level.
00:51:26:01 - 00:51:48:24
Jesse
But they're still happy and satisfied and finding a way to just accept what you want for yourself. I think it's very important and it requires a lot of like, I don't know if ego death is the right word, but it requires a lot of just being like, I will never be that guy. That guy. lucked out. It was a fluke that that person did that.
00:51:48:24 - 00:52:13:20
Jesse
Or as I've learned, many people just have, advantages going into it. Like, there are many people who do YouTube that they started less like the kid of someone famous who we don't really know, but they've got a lot of money. They can throw money at a video and make it pop. Like there's things that we don't see happening, or they can have behind the scenes shenanigans going on that, you know, they have 15 editors and hold like there's a whole variety of things.
00:52:13:26 - 00:52:34:24
Jesse
So focus on what you can do and what successes you can create. And if your success is. I made a video and people commented on it and we had a really good discussion, then that's a win. If you make a video and you spend six weeks on this video and you put it out, the fact that you've got it out and it wasn't just sitting on your desktop for six weeks, that's a huge win.
00:52:34:28 - 00:52:57:12
Jesse
And and appreciating those moments, is very important. That I think is something you have to learn and sort of, acclimate to. You can't just assume you're going to be famous and assume it's going to be a job. If anything, I started this as, like a hobby for fun. And so money being included was something I was not even remotely expecting when it happened.
00:52:57:12 - 00:53:19:12
Jesse
I was like, this seems kind of like a scam. Now, how is this happening? Yeah. And the fact that I've still been doing this all these years later is genuinely shocking to me. I still fundamentally don't understand why anyone cares what I have to say about things. Why am I like the fact that I'm on here and we're about to talk about, like, some things I'm not qualified to speak on.
00:53:19:15 - 00:53:22:04
Wade
Like quantum mechanics?
00:53:22:07 - 00:53:42:00
Jesse
Yeah, I can't believe it's happening. But I'm here for it because I love talking about it. And the fact that I am, lucky enough to do this always seems amazing to me, and that's why I appreciate it as much as I do. And, yeah, it's just one of those things that I think you need to set expectations for yourself, and you need to be real with yourself about what you can achieve and not think.
00:53:42:07 - 00:53:58:18
Jesse
This next video is going to be that 18 million view video. Like, no, just create a thing. And if it becomes that awesome, but then what are you gonna do after that? Where do you go from there? You can't just be the guy who made that one video because, all right, cool. You know? But where do you go?
00:53:58:19 - 00:54:15:10
Jesse
Like, what do you do after that? There's not really a morrow is another day. There will be more days. So where do you go from there? What do you create? Who are you as a creator or as a person in this space? You and I, I think I'm very fortunate enough that I at least staked out my little area, and I have that.
00:54:15:12 - 00:54:37:18
Wade
I'm so glad that you said all of that, because, you know, all the conversations that I have with content creators, you know, you talked about, you know, there's people on the front page that, like, you can only fathom of of what, imagining what it's like to be in that space. And I want you to know, like so many people consider you that kind of person, that kind of creator, okay?
00:54:37:18 - 00:54:57:14
Wade
And like you, you're like one of the most down to earth dudes I think I've ever met in my life, even in LA, you know, at the Final Fantasy 16 event, I walked up to you and you had a real conversation with me, like, I didn't have a YouTube channel or anything like that. You just. Yeah, you treated me like a person, not a viewer, which is amazing and a huge credit to you.
00:54:57:17 - 00:55:06:07
Wade
But the fact that you would say, yeah, there's these people. And on who do you look up to in content creation space? Who inspires you?
00:55:06:10 - 00:55:27:03
Jesse
Oh man. this is going to sound crazy, but going back to, the conversation we had about going out to dinner and kind of showing up in sweat, that man inspires me in ways I cannot stress. he has clearly made the decision that he's going to do the content he wants to create, not worry about what anyone thinks.
00:55:27:05 - 00:55:50:03
Jesse
He's going to live the life he wants to live in a way he chooses rather than chase things. And dude, he has grounded me in a way that I cannot stress when I think like, man, this, oh, this isn't going to work, or this is stupid, or I'm doing. He is like, here's my idea. I discovered that, on Twitch, the first two hours of a stream is when you get the most subs and the most interaction and the most views.
00:55:50:08 - 00:56:05:28
Jesse
So I do two two hour streams a day like that. Is it? I was like, why would you do that? What's that I did? It's like, well, I do one and then I go work out and I do walk and I spend time with my wife and I do stuff, and then I'll do another one at night. And I'm like, that is so unintuitive to what most creators think.
00:56:06:01 - 00:56:15:14
Jesse
I was like, I got to create, I got to make. He's like, I've chosen to live a life. And seeing that and being like, okay, that's where I need to be mentally.
00:56:15:14 - 00:56:16:06
Wade
Is.
00:56:16:08 - 00:56:33:17
Jesse
Like, it isn't just I'm going to sit for the computer and create all the time. It's I'm going to go out and do something. I'm going to like walk away for a little bit. I'm going to not stress over this. And it's very freeing to just be like, you know what? No, not today. I'm going to spend all day today doing something completely different.
00:56:33:20 - 00:56:53:08
Wade
So what is your day like? This is the last question on content creation, I promise. Then we are getting to Final Fantasy. But with all of these projects, all of like game design, you've done some stuff with YouTube, and show the Lord videos, not to mention your streams. What is your day to day like?
00:56:53:15 - 00:57:10:14
Jesse
Sure. well, you know, it's choice. I guess. Sometimes you'll notice I don't stream for, like, a week and a half. Right? And I think I have an audience that accepts that, I will make videos, whenever I feel the need to, but I do things that are like, this is we're gonna have something on Monday. We have something on Friday.
00:57:10:17 - 00:57:17:23
Jesse
Right? But for the most part, everything is sort of designed around the fact. Like, come 5:00 ish, I'm done.
00:57:18:23 - 00:57:35:16
Jesse
I'm done for the day. I'm going to go home and do anything else. But until then, I'm going as hard as humanly possible. So I'm just working and work and like focused. And then there's a cutoff and I'm just not going to think about it. And I don't want to deal with it anymore. And so that's that's kind of where I'm at mentally.
00:57:35:16 - 00:57:58:13
Jesse
I'm very fortunate enough that, for example, TikToks, I don't understand them, I never will. I don't get the algorithms, but I was like, hey, I'm going to reach out to the internet and just ask, is there any editors out there who are I don't 2021 issue? I would love to be a part of this. And I found a wonderful editor and she nails it every time, right?
00:57:58:16 - 00:58:20:14
Jesse
I have a team here at the office now, thankfully, because I I've been doing this long enough that I have a team that we can work and do things together and create things and so I can I can not just, focus on YouTube creation, but I can do the game stuff. I can be on a show. I can know that, you know, stuff's happening over there, but I can be here talking with you and not stress.
00:58:20:14 - 00:58:35:01
Jesse
And so this is one of those give and take things where I had to as a person who edits, be like, okay, I'm gonna let other people edit, even though it's going to stress me out. They're not going to do it the way I want it done, but they're gonna do it a different way, which might actually be better and let that happen.
00:58:35:01 - 00:58:55:11
Jesse
And it's one of those things that it's happened over years, like this wasn't the case, up until 2018, 2019. this was not the case. I did not have a, like, a big team. It wasn't until, I don't know, three, four years ago that it actually were. There's people here doing a thing. Mostly it was just me by myself.
00:58:55:14 - 00:59:19:00
Jesse
or if I needed an editor, I had a friend who would come and help me edit, but, like, that's pretty much what it was. And so now we have a whole thing and, yeah, I'm trying to do bigger, more crazy things and do more stuff. So if it seems like I'm everywhere doing everything now, it's because that's kind of the point is I'm just like, yo, I'm going to inundate you with me, and if you want something, I will be there.
00:59:19:00 - 00:59:35:07
Jesse
And if you don't, you don't have to watch it. It's totally fine. You don't have to see any of the podcasts or do anything that I want. Like there's something for everyone and it's just kind of the plan. And, that's all, while I'm also making games. So we'll we'll see what happens. I don't know, I'm just doing it because I like doing stuff.
00:59:35:09 - 00:59:53:13
Wade
Well, and that that whole message is not only an inspiration to me, but I'm sure it's an inspiration to everybody that's watching this, listening to it. So thank you for indulging us with the whole content creation side of things. That's absolutely amazing. And as part of this show, we want to highlight highlight the creators behind the content, right?
00:59:53:13 - 01:00:02:12
Wade
Everybody knows you for your content. They know us for our content. But there's people on the other side of this, and we try to personalize and humanize, and really get into that.
01:00:02:12 - 01:00:11:07
Evan
All right, everybody, it is that time in the episode for our mini game Stretch Break. But before we get started, we got to hit that theme music three, two one.
01:00:11:10 - 01:00:14:13
Wade
Bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum.
01:00:14:17 - 01:00:19:27
Jesse
Bum bum rap 00000. Just the one I could go to.
01:00:19:27 - 01:00:23:09
Evan
You'd know. Would you like to have a solo?
01:00:23:11 - 01:00:23:29
Jesse
No, I'm all right.
01:00:24:00 - 01:00:37:21
Evan
Okay. We are so. Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, it is that time of the episode where we get to know each other a little bit better. We have the wonderful Jesse Cox with us. As you've heard from the interview before, we also have our bingo Wheel of Vulnerability, which you can see on the screen if you're watching on YouTube.
01:00:37:21 - 01:00:41:14
Evan
Wait has our question for the week, what are we drawing from today? Wade?
01:00:41:17 - 01:00:50:11
Wade
They are. We are going to be using the Geek Therapy Card deck for Client and Therapist 87 practices to improve thoughts, build insight, and take action in your life and de-stress.
01:00:50:11 - 01:00:59:19
Evan
So speaking of, let's take a little stretch break everybody listener. Wherever you are, get a little stretch, a little mindfulness activity.
01:00:59:23 - 01:01:01:10
Wade
Just very mindful.
01:01:01:13 - 01:01:07:07
Evan
Of anything you want to meditate on, anything that they should think a little word of encouragement.
01:01:07:09 - 01:01:11:04
Wade
Just meditate on.
01:01:11:06 - 01:01:18:26
Jesse
getting some sleep tonight, like go to bed an hour earlier, like, you know, resting. and by meditating, I mean just go to bed. Just go to sleep right now.
01:01:19:03 - 01:01:21:17
Wade
Just go to sleep right now. Right now.
01:01:21:19 - 01:01:22:28
Jesse
If you all go to bed early.
01:01:23:01 - 01:01:35:00
Evan
You've been hypnotized. All right, so in the bigger wheel of vulnerability, we have the numbers one through 50. Everybody's going to get to guess our number. Listener. We encourage you to guess the number right now. Jesse, we're going to let you go first as our guest. 1818 is the number.
01:01:35:00 - 01:01:36:23
Wade
Wait 32.
01:01:36:26 - 01:01:40:17
Evan
I'm going to go 3737. All right, Jesse, just tell me when.
01:01:40:17 - 01:01:45:16
Unknown
And I'll grab one. Stop.
01:01:45:18 - 01:01:50:05
Evan
Oh, it fell out. Oh, it's on the floor. I have to find it.
01:01:50:05 - 01:01:56:14
Wade
Worlds are merging and breaking. Oh, it's. Oh, maybe it's gone forever.
01:01:56:16 - 01:01:58:04
Jesse
Yes, it's one of those, like, we'll never know.
01:01:58:07 - 01:02:00:18
Evan
No no no I can't no yeah I can't.
01:02:00:20 - 01:02:05:05
Wade
You can't do this. Well this is, this is great. It's a it's gone forever heaven.
01:02:05:07 - 01:02:09:04
Jesse
Just wow. Just like the live stream. It may be real. It may not.
01:02:09:11 - 01:02:11:03
Wade
They may miss.
01:02:11:05 - 01:02:12:03
Evan
This distressed.
01:02:12:03 - 01:02:16:21
Jesse
Stressful. Yeah. Did it. Is that ball real? Who knows?
01:02:16:22 - 01:02:17:20
Wade
It's gone.
01:02:17:22 - 01:02:24:00
Jesse
We lost it. It could be 18. It could be 32. It could be 37. We all win and lose.
01:02:24:03 - 01:02:27:04
Wade
There is a reality where we win. And yes.
01:02:27:07 - 01:02:28:29
Evan
I've gone hands in these.
01:02:29:02 - 01:02:30:04
Jesse
Oh it's.
01:02:30:07 - 01:02:31:23
Wade
Oh he's going all the way. Oh okay.
01:02:31:23 - 01:02:33:07
Jesse
Okay. He's down. We lost him.
01:02:33:07 - 01:02:41:00
Wade
This is this, this is the best content, you see. Like, it really is. People strive for life.
01:02:41:02 - 01:02:45:21
Jesse
That's it is gone. Was it even real? Did it even come.
01:02:45:21 - 01:02:56:10
Wade
Out of there? I don't think it ever existed. I think it went into a wormhole like forever gone. This is like the matrix. Like things, you know. We'll never know.
01:02:56:10 - 01:02:59:01
Evan
We might have to a few moments later.
01:02:59:01 - 01:03:01:27
Wade
This we definitely got a few moments later.
01:03:01:27 - 01:03:09:10
Jesse
This I love this. This is great. This is the essence. This is pure quantum mechanics. This is great.
01:03:09:12 - 01:03:09:20
Wade
Happened.
01:03:09:26 - 01:03:11:05
Jesse
But didn't.
01:03:11:07 - 01:03:17:23
Evan
It? It's so insane. Into the desk. And then it hit off my side table.
01:03:17:26 - 01:03:27:21
Jesse
And then now it's gone. Found it. Oh, oh. And the number is 27.
01:03:27:24 - 01:03:29:15
Wade
Oh.
01:03:29:18 - 01:03:32:16
Jesse
So in this reality, we all lost. We all are. So now maybe.
01:03:32:16 - 01:03:37:00
Evan
A listener won. It would have been so much better if.
01:03:37:02 - 01:03:38:08
Wade
It had been one that we had.
01:03:38:11 - 01:03:39:19
Evan
Been on there, I guess. And that was.
01:03:39:19 - 01:03:40:05
Wade
A good of.
01:03:40:08 - 01:03:42:29
Jesse
Listener willed it to be 27 maybe.
01:03:42:29 - 01:03:46:16
Evan
Basically, yeah, maybe we won't have to. A few moments later, it here's the question.
01:03:46:16 - 01:03:52:14
Jesse
Was it 27 when it was missing? Oh, when you couldn't see it. Was it 27.
01:03:52:16 - 01:03:56:23
Wade
Was it. All about perception and reality.
01:03:56:25 - 01:04:05:09
Jesse
I want to get a it's like a scientist is going to be like no it was always 27 dude. It fell out. It's 27. But I'm gonna say to you scientists what is science really.
01:04:05:11 - 01:04:06:26
Wade
What is science.
01:04:06:28 - 01:04:10:12
Jesse
What is the only things we understand currently? It could change.
01:04:10:14 - 01:04:17:08
Wade
What is science but a pain in my, heart. Right. A blight in my history.
01:04:17:11 - 01:04:19:07
Evan
Oh my gosh. Oh.
01:04:19:09 - 01:04:24:19
Wade
All right Evan I'm ready. Let me count out 27. That was 27 right.
01:04:24:21 - 01:04:25:21
Evan
Yeah.
01:04:25:23 - 01:04:54:01
Wade
20. Oh okay. Here we go. Here is the question everybody. This one is focused on pop culture okay. Here is the question. What is one plot point from any work of popular culture that you would change. Oh and how would it impact the work. Oh, what is one plot point from any work of popular culture that you would change, and how would it impact the work?
01:04:54:03 - 01:04:57:19
Evan
I'm going to be really selfish with fine, okay.
01:04:57:21 - 01:04:58:28
Wade
Go for it. Why don't you start?
01:04:58:28 - 01:05:20:18
Evan
It's just the first thing that came to. And I know that I can change a lot of things, but I'm. This is not in service of anyone else. This is just in service of me, okay? And this is. This is my selfish moment. And I if you're listening to this and you haven't read Harry Potter, it's a small spoiler, but some would argue it's maybe not that small.
01:05:20:20 - 01:05:25:24
Evan
I am not jiving with Hedwig the Owl getting killed.
01:05:25:26 - 01:05:30:20
Wade
okay. That was a that was a big moment. Traumatic moment. Pointless.
01:05:30:22 - 01:05:49:12
Evan
Had been there for him from the start. She was really the true, I think, anchor that like helped him to feel like he was safe. And as a kid who had moments where, like a pet was that thing for you, that just kind of like you didn't have anybody else that you could talk with or just cry in the room in front of or whatever it was.
01:05:49:14 - 01:06:01:08
Evan
The fact that Hedwig died tore me to pieces and so if I could somehow resurrect that little owl from the live stream, I would.
01:06:01:10 - 01:06:05:24
Wade
Bring it back in a world he sits on. Zach's shoulders.
01:06:05:24 - 01:06:12:26
Evan
Yeah, I know that's probably a waste of cosmic power, but it means a lot to me. Probably. Probably guts. Yeah.
01:06:12:26 - 01:06:14:15
Jesse
You're right, Jesse.
01:06:14:18 - 01:06:16:02
Wade
Jesse, what about you?
01:06:16:05 - 01:06:50:17
Jesse
Sure. In my, What I would change this is borderline a spoiler. But again, I assume we're all cool with that. the movie Final Destination. is it is the beginning of a franchise in which death comes to claim those who have slipped out of its grasp. Here's the thing. The first movie. There is a moment where the water kind of like goes up when it shouldn't, and the implication is that there's like a supernatural element where, like, death is coming to get them.
01:06:50:17 - 01:06:51:10
Evan
Yeah.
01:06:51:12 - 01:07:12:18
Jesse
That ceases kind of halfway through that movie and is not ever brought up. And the rest of the movies, I would like that to come back. I love the idea of like a supernatural force being the one tracking them down and getting them. In fact, I camera with the actress name. There's a guy in the movie who, like, comes across as being the embodiment, and that dude does not play a role.
01:07:12:26 - 01:07:24:09
Jesse
It's it's incredibly flawed in my mind. I feel like 100% that death should have been a character that was like, you got away, you damn kids. It would have been more fun.
01:07:24:11 - 01:07:29:03
Evan
I thought that was the plot of the whole thing. They just got rid of it.
01:07:29:05 - 01:07:42:23
Jesse
Look, I mean, the plot was you would survive, like an accident, and then they were intended to die, right? Like that. Yeah. It's actually what the plots of those movies were. But there was like a element to it that, again, there's one scene I vividly remember where, like, the water is going.
01:07:42:23 - 01:07:43:19
Evan
In the back of wall.
01:07:43:22 - 01:08:01:06
Jesse
Yeah, yeah. Like it shouldn't do that. And I was like, oh, that's cool. And it made it feel like, oh, something's happening here. But then that never usually it's like a dude, like I'm going to lift weights above knives for some reason. And then then you're like, well, why would you like that's just stupid. And I guess they just came up with ways to make people die, which is some of them nailed it.
01:08:01:06 - 01:08:04:05
Jesse
Like, I can't drive behind a truck with wood anymore like that.
01:08:04:05 - 01:08:05:14
Wade
The other day for me, I was like.
01:08:05:14 - 01:08:14:07
Evan
That's my question, is, do you think that water in the water bottle that went under the brake pedal was the same water from the bathroom?
01:08:14:10 - 01:08:37:18
Jesse
That would have been awesome. It would have made no sense. But if it was like, I love, I love buying bath water, if that was that character's trope that like, yeah, that makes sense. Like, oh, that guy. What an idiot. But they would do things like that was more accidental, like the water bottle rolled under the thing, or like something stupid happened, rather than this creepy effect of the water coming like, oh boy, it's coming up the side.
01:08:37:23 - 01:08:48:23
Jesse
That's hot. Shouldn't happen. Yeah, yeah. So I want that. I would love that to happen. It won't. It's too late. But it would have changed everything for me. I would have loved those movies.
01:08:48:26 - 01:08:49:27
Wade
Well, if only.
01:08:49:28 - 01:08:51:03
Evan
Yeah. Wait, what about you?
01:08:51:08 - 01:09:00:23
Wade
So for me, mine has to go with, The Walking Dead, and, I was a big Walking Dead fan for, like, five seasons.
01:09:00:28 - 01:09:02:22
Jesse
There's a lot of changes you can make.
01:09:02:24 - 01:09:20:20
Wade
A lot of changes I could make. But the one that I really, really do wish that could have happened was the video game The Walking Dead Season one. I would like for that to intersect with the characters in a significant, substantial way.
01:09:20:20 - 01:09:22:17
Evan
And the TV, the telltale game.
01:09:22:20 - 01:09:49:23
Wade
Yeah, the telltale game. Yeah, I loved Lily and Clementine, and I just wish that I could have gotten a little bit better, more integration into that real world. So I think it would've been really fun. also, I think that Clem would have been a really interesting, kind of torch bearer from, from when Carl dies. Oh, I think that Clem really could have picked it up and run with it.
01:09:49:23 - 01:09:51:23
Wade
So anyway, that's what I would change.
01:09:51:26 - 01:09:53:29
Evan
Clem really liked that.
01:09:54:01 - 01:09:56:02
Wade
She did like that. Thank you.
01:09:56:04 - 01:09:58:07
Evan
All right, everybody, back to the episode.
01:09:58:12 - 01:10:01:09
Speaker 2
So. Finally, the whole reason that we.
01:10:01:09 - 01:10:02:21
Speaker 1
Brought you here.
01:10:02:24 - 01:10:04:23
Speaker 2
It's finally time to talk about.
01:10:04:26 - 01:10:05:15
Speaker 1
Final.
01:10:05:15 - 01:10:21:28
Speaker 2
Fantasy. and specifically Final Fantasy seven seven remake and seven rebirth. Jesse, real quick, tell us a little bit about your history with, specifically the Final Fantasy seven franchise, but you can go into the full series if you'd like as well.
01:10:22:00 - 01:10:44:18
Speaker 3
Sure. So I'm just a big Final Fantasy nerd I have been since I was a wee lad. I vividly remember going into a myers in Dayton, Ohio and seeing a PlayStation with a giant TV ad for, Final Fantasy seven. I must have watched that trailer, 100 times when my parents grocery shopped, and I just would go over to the game section and just stand there watching.
01:10:44:21 - 01:11:07:19
Speaker 3
I did not have a PlayStation until I don't even know when maybe, maybe 12th grade finally got one and that was it. I was like, let's go, I'm doing this. And, played Final Fantasy seven and just fell in love. Until that time I thought of fantasy three. Six was all I had, and I played that game way too many times.
01:11:07:19 - 01:11:08:10
Speaker 3
I love that.
01:11:08:10 - 01:11:10:21
Speaker 2
Game. Great win to start with.
01:11:10:24 - 01:11:12:15
Speaker 4
Favorite scene? It is favorite.
01:11:12:17 - 01:11:13:25
Speaker 3
One of the best ones.
01:11:13:27 - 01:11:16:15
Speaker 4
Do you have a favorite scene?
01:11:16:18 - 01:11:17:05
Speaker 1
oh.
01:11:17:05 - 01:11:41:16
Speaker 3
Man. I love the, Ghost Train because Saban can suplex a ghost train, and it might be my favorite moment in video game, but obviously the opera and I love ultras, and I love, everything about the floating island bit. it's it's an amazing game. There's so much to love there. Plus spoilers. The second half is amazing.
01:11:41:16 - 01:12:07:08
Speaker 3
The fact that it exists, the audacity of them to do what they do in this game. Amazing. So love that. Go play Final Fantasy six. But Final Fantasy seven is a game that, it's just visually, it looked completely different. It was so striking. The cinematics, everything about it at the time. this has been 97, I think is when it came out, it was just genuinely incredible experience.
01:12:07:09 - 01:12:10:20
Speaker 3
It's concerning. I played it years afterwards.
01:12:10:22 - 01:12:11:14
Speaker 1
I didn't have a chance.
01:12:11:14 - 01:12:22:00
Speaker 3
To play it immediately, so I played it years afterwards and still loved it and then immediately jumped into Final Fantasy eight after that. Shout out to Blockbuster Video. I rented Final Fantasy eight there, so.
01:12:22:05 - 01:12:25:07
Speaker 1
I love it. We love blockbuster.
01:12:25:09 - 01:12:46:29
Speaker 3
It was it was a, like a I know it was. It's to say it is an experience is to put it lightly. Final fantasy seven at the time was something that we were just like, what the hell did I just play? And, I understand the obsession people have with it as opposed to different characters. Everything about it, I totally understand.
01:12:47:01 - 01:13:02:24
Speaker 3
if anything, I am thankful that I was obsessed with all the different Final Fantasy, so I never really got too deep into when Final Fantasy seven was like, we're going to milk it for all it's worth. We're just going to keep creating content. That's. Yeah. You sure we're going to keep making movies? And this is this I.
01:13:03:00 - 01:13:09:02
Speaker 3
I was like, all right, I'll watch it once, but it wasn't too invested in that. I was still just thinking about like, oh, father's knives.
01:13:09:02 - 01:13:10:16
Speaker 1
Coming out, dude. Oh my.
01:13:10:16 - 01:13:12:15
Speaker 3
God. So I was doing that instead.
01:13:12:18 - 01:13:42:14
Speaker 2
When it was like three years in a row, you had seven, eight and nine, like almost exactly three years. And it was just like this, this deluge of all of this amazing journey and content and all this stuff. But seven really did kind of kick off this new trend of, super cinematic, hyper immersive storytelling. So I wonder, even though you said you were in 12th grade and it was a few years older at that point, even then it hit you.
01:13:42:14 - 01:13:49:08
Speaker 2
Is this is something really special? What was it about the story? Do you think that really stuck with you at that age?
01:13:49:10 - 01:14:16:04
Speaker 3
And, I mean, I'm not even sure where to start here. I think the idea of you, the heroes, are eco terrorists. The, villains are, at the start, a giant corporation. The main villain is like some guy who may not even be real. The concept of, the live stream was super interesting. I think the weapons was cool.
01:14:16:10 - 01:14:46:02
Speaker 3
The idea that, I vividly I'll never forget this, the idea of starting in Midgar and playing the game. And then at a certain point, it boots you into an overworld map. Yeah, that difference was jarring. It was like, what? And having that all be in one game. Not to mention they gave characters sort of adult stakes. Even thought of as a six is great, and there's a lot of adult content in that game, but a lot of the time the characters are like goofy.
01:14:46:04 - 01:15:04:20
Speaker 3
And in seven there's some goofy moments, but all the characters are pretty adult. Even the goofy ones have like, there's some messed up stuff going on there, and it was a real story, designed not just for children to play, which I think was the vibe of especially the 90s. This is video games. This is what video games are.
01:15:04:22 - 01:15:26:09
Speaker 3
And and it was during this time period, especially in the run up to that. So if you think about it it's like I think it was 92, 93, 94, maybe it was 94, 95, 96. Whatever the case may be, they did Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana and Final Fantasy six all together and one like one after the other and the other.
01:15:26:11 - 01:15:47:24
Speaker 3
And all those games are super like, let's get you think for a little bit. Especially Chrono Trigger was like, hey kid, how do you feel about time travel? Seriously, paradoxes. You never experienced that stuff and then immediately followed up with Final Fantasy seven, which is we're going to make a very cinematic, extremely, engaging story that's going to deal with the whole other thing.
01:15:47:26 - 01:15:54:14
Speaker 3
I don't know how, in fact, I was like, I don't know how they're gonna top this the next game. They're like child warriors, not like warriors.
01:15:54:15 - 01:15:56:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, you know.
01:15:56:24 - 01:16:17:12
Speaker 2
No, seriously, I've never really thought of it that way. How they almost, equipped us and trained us from Secret of Mana, to six. even, to a degree, Xeno gears, even though I think that came out after seven. But you start to really get this, this deeper sort of thing where the series and these games grew alongside us.
01:16:17:15 - 01:16:32:15
Speaker 2
You know, our mental capacity grows, so does the game. And I think that that's why so many of us kind of cherish these games, because it felt like age appropriate development for each one of us as we went through life. Kind of an interesting thought. I never thought of it that way.
01:16:32:15 - 01:16:41:28
Speaker 3
It didn't really talk down to, you know, in fact, there are many times as a kid I clearly misinterpreted what was going on and then coming back later being like, whoa.
01:16:42:01 - 01:16:43:24
Speaker 1
How did I miss again?
01:16:43:27 - 01:16:57:24
Speaker 3
Final fantasy seven has an entire scene where all the characters are dressing up to go, like, hang out with this dude at his house. And as a kid you're like, yeah, I'm going to dress up cloud so we can, like, get a date. And then there's that scene. It's dark.
01:16:58:01 - 01:16:58:19
Speaker 1
It is.
01:16:58:22 - 01:17:20:04
Speaker 3
You're like, whoa, yeah, I'm I'm glad that that remake recontextualized that and like, oh no, it's a like, this is not cool at all. And I and seeing that was great because I was wondering like, where do they go with this? Because there's a whole storyline here that is, I, I'm not sure how appropriate it is. I don't know what the vibe here, but I'm glad they went for it and they did it.
01:17:20:04 - 01:17:41:00
Speaker 3
And it's like it's like, yeah, okay, all right. This is the game we're playing. So I love that. But yeah, it seven as a concept is so intriguing that even at the end when it all when the last hour of that game is some of the trickiest stuff you will see. I was just like, what? Yeah, even as a kid, totally confused but just accepted what was going on.
01:17:42:12 - 01:17:55:18
Speaker 2
So we, we turned a remake after you know you mentioned it earlier, the Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, crisis core before crisis, all of the, the spinoffs and sequels and prequels and all of that kind of stuff.
01:17:55:21 - 01:17:56:09
Speaker 3
Yep.
01:17:56:11 - 01:18:19:19
Speaker 2
And after we get through all of that, we have this, I guess three tech demo, of what a Final Fantasy seven could look like with modern sort of graphics. There's this hunger, this desire for a remake in modern sensibilities. And so finally, they reveal in 2015 that we're going to get it, it's going to be a remake.
01:18:19:19 - 01:18:50:28
Speaker 2
And in the trailer it says that, what comes with the reunion at hand may bring joy. It may bring, pain or sadness. fear, I think, is what they say. But whatever it brings, they are coming back. And then we get remake. And it's not exactly the 1 to 1 sort of remake. So I mention it this way because you put out a video called, I love the Unsolved Mysteries esthetic to it.
01:18:51:01 - 01:19:07:12
Speaker 2
When you played remake, the mysteries that arrived, that you were faced with, they're different from the original game. How did you reckon with this new remake project versus what you kind of thought it might be going into it?
01:19:07:14 - 01:19:28:15
Speaker 3
I so loved it. I, have a lot of people in my life, a lot of friends who were not a fan because it was different. Okay. And I love that it's different. I love that they threw in a mystery because in remake we don't particularly know much until the very end when it starts to get a little off the wall.
01:19:28:15 - 01:19:47:08
Speaker 3
But for the most part, it's like, what are these weird spirit things showing up? What's this about? It was totally different and it made me intrigued. And I'm a sucker for a good mystery, so having that injected into a game I already knew to me seemed like, of course this is the natural progression of this. They can't just rerelease a game.
01:19:47:10 - 01:20:03:27
Speaker 3
It doesn't make any sense to do that. The game already exists. I've always, you know, I always been a fan of fun remakes. Like a great example is, they rereleased it. Remade Dead Space. Yeah. And Dead Space is one of my favorite games of all time. I love that game. But even in that they changed some things.
01:20:03:27 - 01:20:34:24
Speaker 3
They added some things, they tweaked some things. And I appreciated that because as someone who played the original, it didn't take away from the game. It made it better. This, I think, is designed differently in that it is for people who played the original. And even though they're like, you don't need to played the original. As someone who has, I appreciate so, so much more because having gone through it and experienced it, seeing the changes and and knowing like, wait, that's wrong, that's not how that happens, or this is thing.
01:20:34:24 - 01:20:53:08
Speaker 3
And then to see them acknowledge why it's wrong, that's like, yeah, you're right. That does seem weird, doesn't it? And you're like, yeah, that does. That was what are you doing there? Like we'll never tell. And one of them do that is so much fun. And so I was super invested. And the entire time while playing through it, I was like, oh my God, what are we?
01:20:53:10 - 01:21:11:16
Speaker 3
What are we doing? And for the longest time I was like, guys, are those weird things supposed to be the fans? And they want they want the story to be what it originally was. But, and that's why they keep trying to change it back. But our characters in the game are trying to do something different. But those ghost things they don't want.
01:21:11:18 - 01:21:29:18
Speaker 3
And I was even in that headspace where I was like, we're fourth wall breaking. This can be crazy. Yeah, obviously that's not the way we went, but that's where I was at the time and I'm totally down for stuff like that. I love a good, fourth wall break. I love something that the game is like, hey, player, we're going to mess you up right now.
01:21:29:21 - 01:21:41:02
Speaker 3
Big fan of that. So the fact that they were doing that in a game that I thought I knew made me so happy. I love the fact that they're like, we're getting real weird with it. So I enjoyed every minute of it.
01:21:41:05 - 01:22:07:10
Speaker 4
Do you feel like the game was multifaceted enough that even if you really love something specific about the first one, you could find something in it that you liked. Whether it's revamped combat, whether it's an introduction of some uncertainty, the story changes a little bit. Why do you think having something that is multifaceted like that helped it maybe connect with a bit of a broader audience than just people who had played the first one?
01:22:07:12 - 01:22:36:10
Speaker 3
Well, it's it's more than nostalgia bait, right? Like they didn't just say, we're going to make a thing that you love again. They went in and they really captured, not only the essence of the characters, but of the world. And they then took that and made it bigger. I think the idea that that Midgar is a full game of 40, 56, 80 hour game, however long you're playing and it's just one part of it, really goes to show exactly what they were going for.
01:22:36:10 - 01:22:59:09
Speaker 3
We're going to take something that was a small part and really expand on it and give you more lore and more story where you gave you time with Jesse Briggs and Wedge. We're going to give you time to go explore and meet new characters and see new things. And we're also going to include a, sort of more updated, fun version of combat, but it still feels like where you were at.
01:22:59:10 - 01:23:31:00
Speaker 3
Again, going back to the characters, we're going to give you an updated, better version of all the main characters, but like, it still feels like what you experience. The characters are still emotionally the same. And so having all of that in there, I think really added to not just, why new people would fall in love with it, but also why fans of the original would be like, this is what I want because I've always I've always thought that the best retro games are games that feel retro but aren't right, like a real retro game.
01:23:31:05 - 01:23:48:29
Speaker 3
You would be like, wow, this feels old, know a retro style game. And so they took that attitude and put it in this. It's not retro by any means, but it's the attitude of it makes you feel like what it was. Yeah, but entirely different. And that's a very fine space to well, it's why I like that one so much.
01:23:49:04 - 01:24:13:12
Speaker 3
It's also why I am really curious where they end up going, because I have, to me, this franchise feels a lot like The Matrix trilogy, and that when I finished the second matrix movie Reloaded, my friends and I had so many theories, we were so convinced of what we're like, dude, there was like, the outside world wasn't destroyed, though.
01:24:13:12 - 01:24:31:07
Speaker 3
It's all like or it's a matrix enemy. Like, how on earth Canadian Smith yeah, it's like it doesn't make any sense once it's this. And then to see a third movie that we're like, nah, this ain't it. No, I'm terrified. But hopefully they'll nail this. But I'm terrified we may get a third game. That's going to be not what I expect.
01:24:31:08 - 01:24:48:09
Speaker 3
Based on the mysteries they've created. And so that's the second game gives you like we took the mysteries of the first one and we just cranked up to 11, which is fine. I loved it, but now I'm like, can they deliver on a satisfying conclusion to this? I don't know, we'll find out together. I guess I'm going.
01:24:48:09 - 01:24:54:07
Speaker 4
To have to find out from you later. Who the Merovingian of rebirth is going.
01:24:54:07 - 01:25:05:17
Speaker 3
And, you know, that's a fantastic question. I don't know, I mean, we'll find out next game when he shows up for like six minutes, double screen time and then disappeared, then it never mattered. We talked about.
01:25:05:19 - 01:25:11:01
Speaker 1
It. It doesn't matter. That's it, I love it. yeah, we'll find out again.
01:25:11:04 - 01:25:33:04
Speaker 2
Well, you know, you said earlier that you do not like reviewing games or like, you know, having that whole deal. Yeah. You just said you really liked this game. Okay. With rebirth. So I would be really interested in kind of your classic review style format. What did you like about this game? There's, there's a lot to kind of dissect.
01:25:33:06 - 01:25:47:12
Speaker 2
What was it about the narrative? What was it about the experience as a whole? When you finish, when you wrapped credits or whatever? you think back on it and you're like, okay, what what was the essence of this game and how does that relate to the original?
01:25:47:15 - 01:26:11:25
Speaker 3
Sure. I think that gameplay wise, was a phenomenal experience. The music is incredible, graphically beautiful zone wise. The different things you do amazing. The fact that they so effortlessly nailed Gold Saucer. Love that. Real. That was very cool. I'm having Syd come into it right. Fan expand.
01:26:11:26 - 01:26:13:22
Speaker 2
Did you like the changes with said?
01:26:13:25 - 01:26:25:21
Speaker 3
Yeah, I was totally fine with that. I also like the expanded nature of Red storyline and what they did with that. with all that said, those mini games can kiss my butt. I actually.
01:26:25:24 - 01:26:26:06
Speaker 1
90.
01:26:26:06 - 01:26:40:05
Speaker 3
Percent of those mini games, I was like, unnecessary. I get it, and some of them are fun, and some of them I was like, you may don't have to pick a mushroom a certain way, and if I don't pick it correctly, I just lose and there's no I can't do it over, I just lose. It's more.
01:26:40:05 - 01:26:42:02
Speaker 2
Replayability.
01:26:42:04 - 01:26:44:19
Speaker 3
Oh, I will never replay that again. I did.
01:26:44:19 - 01:26:45:10
Speaker 1
It, don't.
01:26:45:15 - 01:26:47:27
Speaker 3
I'm doing that part I that's me.
01:26:47:29 - 01:26:51:29
Speaker 2
And gadgets gears and gadgets was my like bane of existence.
01:26:52:01 - 01:27:10:24
Speaker 3
Yeah. Oh anytime. They were like hey Tifa, do a pull up or sit up contest against someone who's just going to cheat. I was like, that is. And I will find the dev who made this work a straight fight. Oh my god. Yeah. No, that was not cool with me. With that said, ignoring all of the mini games, the story was great.
01:27:10:27 - 01:27:31:10
Speaker 3
The expanded again, adding the the Yuffie plotline, which was definitely not a thing in the original. Having that being there, was amazing. Giving Rufus more to do. With that said, there was a one plot line that I was like, oh, this is for people who played the mobile game, the addition of, like, the Wu Tai story. Yeah.
01:27:31:13 - 01:27:44:05
Speaker 3
Where? Yeah, yeah. And it's like, no, that's something that I did not do. And it felt very Kingdom Hearts where it's like, well, you played all eight mobile games. I'm like, I did not I don't know who this person is and it does not affect me at all. But it didn't let me, you know, it didn't bother me.
01:27:44:05 - 01:28:07:21
Speaker 3
And then the end, it turned out to really be a whole nothing burger anyway. So I was like, all right, but, that whole chance they took with trying to make it. I don't want to say metaphysical, but definitely like, there was some, some stuff going on where a certain point when I realized stamp was different frequently.
01:28:07:23 - 01:28:24:01
Speaker 3
Yeah, I like my mind was going a mile a minute and I was like, what is happening? That is not the same dog that we just saw what is going on. And so once I was in that space, it didn't matter. The story could have been the goofiest, stupidest thing ever. And I would been like, what does that mean?
01:28:24:06 - 01:28:49:14
Speaker 3
How is this where they got me? So I was completely hooked and not just seeing what they were going to do, because again, in the original, you're in Midgar and it seems very like you could do that in a modern tale, but the idea of jumping into an open world in Final Fantasy seven and then, like, how on earth are they going to do that in a modern way that doesn't look like just a guy walking on a giant map?
01:28:49:17 - 01:29:11:06
Speaker 3
I was so intrigued. And the fact that I explored every inch of that probably places I shouldn't have explored. I spent so much time just walking around looking at stuff, doing all the different things. The fact that they created a card game that is as a mystery and like a threat and a weird like static fourth wall break, I was like, what are we doing?
01:29:11:09 - 01:29:26:21
Speaker 3
And so all of that absolutely had me. And it was one of those things where I just needed to see where it was going. And it even the ending as it is, is kind of a mystery. And even then I was like, all right, all right, I'm in. Let's see. Let's see what you do with let's see what you do with this.
01:29:26:24 - 01:29:47:28
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's it's a fantastic example of just letting a dev team run wild. And they definitely did. This is this is out there in many ways like the jump from remake which is like this little ghost things. And what are they about two rebirths, which is like we're getting old timey. Why me is incredible. And I'm totally here for it.
01:29:48:00 - 01:29:54:06
Speaker 3
They really just said, screw your expectations, we're going to make something insane. And I am absolutely a fan of that.
01:29:54:08 - 01:30:01:25
Speaker 2
So did you even bother trying to make sense of it? What do you think is going on with all of these worlds? The Chihuahuas, the.
01:30:01:25 - 01:30:02:21
Speaker 1
The dogs.
01:30:02:28 - 01:30:04:05
Speaker 2
All of the things.
01:30:04:08 - 01:30:25:09
Speaker 3
So I don't know if you've had this conversation before this absolutely. My theory, I think it is, is completely sound. So the devs have said that the movie Final Fast seven Advent Children is, canonical. It is still a thing that happens and it will happen. And so from that point I'm like, okay, here's what I know about that movie.
01:30:25:11 - 01:30:47:14
Speaker 3
in that film, Sephiroth, the villain, is still existing in the live stream, and in that film he creates three, I don't know, like, reflections of himself to exist in the real world, and each of them represents a part of him. And then at the end, like one combines what you know about to become like a body for Sephiroth.
01:30:47:14 - 01:31:07:18
Speaker 3
And there's like a fight. It's pretty cool, but that's kind of the basis of where I'm at and so on my mind, I'm like, okay, if the villain still exists in the live stream, which is again, the live stream is the blood of the planet. It is, something they've established as being like when you die, you go to live stream.
01:31:07:18 - 01:31:32:19
Speaker 3
When things are born, they come for the live stream, the live stream is everything. And the Shinra as a company is like sucking that dry, which is killing the planet, but also like messing with the flow of existing life, be it people or animals or whatever. And so if Sephiroth is just chilling in there, then there's a lot of questions, which I think the game tries to answer as to why that would be and how you could do that.
01:31:32:25 - 01:31:58:06
Speaker 3
But my assumption then is the scenes where Aerith shows up and it's like, hey, cloud, good job buddy! Probably means she is in there as well. So my basic starting point is that even though there is a conflict happening in the world, we recognize as real and the life stream, which is a place that I, I have to believe is something that is past, present, future.
01:31:58:06 - 01:32:21:12
Speaker 3
There is no time. It's sort of, this place where existence isn't how we see it. my thought then is if there's two people in there, polar opposites, one is sort of like the last living representation of these people who took care of the planet. And one is the last living representation of this, like outside force that is trying to destroy the planet.
01:32:21:12 - 01:32:51:01
Speaker 3
And they're butting heads, sort of. If it's in the life force, it's improper to it. They're doing it forever. It's a perpetual battle that is always happening. And so I think the premise of this is that the two characters and I'm not sure who started what, but the idea that the two of them are waging this war, not just in the live stream, but through space and time, because the live stream is its own thing.
01:32:51:03 - 01:33:20:04
Speaker 3
That Final Fantasy seven remake and rebirth are happening in different timelines across different universes. Question mark or or reflections of themselves and all of these versions like there is. I'm convinced that when cloud walks around and goes and there's a static thing, I'm convinced that is different reflections of cloud across different things. I don't think it's a Sephiroth, like he's remembering the past.
01:33:20:09 - 01:33:46:23
Speaker 3
I think it's genuinely just like we are seeing the same story play out through different, versions of itself. And the two characters, Sephiroth and Aerith, are trying to, one of them is trying to win, but it's kind of like the US viewing what Doctor Strange would have seen in the in, Marvel when he's like, there's only one out of 14 million, there's only one winning.
01:33:47:00 - 01:34:11:14
Speaker 3
That's what they're trying to achieve. Each of them is trying to find the one where they win. And so they're playing out multiple versions of it over and over and over again. but they're all happening at the exact same time. So they're all doing thousands and thousands of variations of the same story. And we are experiencing parts of each one, which is why sometimes there are different dogs in the background, like the stamp as a character is different.
01:34:11:19 - 01:34:29:18
Speaker 3
Sometimes cloud is experiencing Aerith alive, but not really. And sometimes she is dead. And some and there's like different versions and several game is I'm going to play all these people and I'm going to like get in Cloud's head and because there's questions they brought up was like, what is real? When we know if we've played like we know, right.
01:34:29:18 - 01:34:54:05
Speaker 3
Like we know what happened. So why are they bringing this up in the game? And I think that's the villain trying to like chase up. But at the same time, I think Aerith as a character is also using our heroes as chess pieces. So no matter what we think of the two of them, they're both sitting at a board playing chess with each other and all the characters we're playing as are just pieces that are being moved and used.
01:34:54:07 - 01:35:15:05
Speaker 3
And so that's why, it feels weird to us because certain things that are happening, you're like, why? Why would we do that? Or what's the point of this? What is that? And it's because there's this grand game being played between the two last representatives of, like, these two factions that have been since the dawn of time, fighting over the world.
01:35:15:07 - 01:35:37:19
Speaker 3
and this is the third sort of like, last gambit thing where they're just constantly creating, but it isn't one after the other. It's all layered on top of each other, and I feel like potentially that changes the way you should look at the first game because it is remake, but more importantly, the first Final Fantasy. I think we probably can say, okay, that's the first version of this.
01:35:37:21 - 01:35:43:00
Speaker 3
and then everything that happens afterwards is the fallout of that. So it doesn't like negate.
01:35:43:08 - 01:35:43:26
Speaker 2
It.
01:35:43:28 - 01:36:00:15
Speaker 3
Otherwise, then what is real? Like, you can't say the first game didn't happen and it's one of the many layers. Otherwise it doesn't. It just adds too much complication. And I don't want to go that far to be like, no, no, it's what is what is reality at that point? Why bother? Right? So I feel like the first game was its own thing.
01:36:00:18 - 01:36:12:05
Speaker 3
And at the end when we get the ending, we get it's not necessarily a happy ending at the end of Final Fantasy seven, when that game ends, it goes five years later and everyone's gone. The only people left?
01:36:12:09 - 01:36:13:25
Speaker 1
Allegedly. Yeah.
01:36:13:27 - 01:36:16:22
Speaker 3
Well, it's been said by the dev team. No, they're they're dead.
01:36:16:25 - 01:36:17:27
Speaker 2
Okay.
01:36:18:00 - 01:36:41:24
Speaker 3
And so that brings up the questions. Okay. So then what the hell is Advent Children like? It's still they win but still lose. It's this thing where it's it's sad, but the earth recovers like one of the things like, yeah man, it is gone. But the Earth, like the planet still lives. And I feel like that's one of those endings where it's like, no, that was one of the bat like that was the bad outcome, and Earth doesn't want that.
01:36:41:27 - 01:36:49:16
Speaker 3
So we got to do a whole thing. And so that's why we're just layering and layering. I don't know, it's a lot of thought going into this, but a lot of like total nonsense. You know.
01:36:49:21 - 01:37:10:29
Speaker 4
I think wait, I think maybe it's time for a good old fashioned summary game. Like we played this part. I have taken notes and maybe we'll just I'll give you a second to think about, maybe where you want to start in all of this. And, it's here, ladies and gentlemen.
01:37:10:29 - 01:37:12:27
Speaker 3
I have that all bottled up, and I just needed to get.
01:37:12:27 - 01:37:19:10
Speaker 1
It out. Was that. Sorry, I can't even clap. We got an applause. No, no, it's so good. It was so good.
01:37:19:12 - 01:37:38:23
Speaker 2
And the encapsulation of all of those things, like, I was taking a mental note. Evan is like, okay, there's some things that we really do kind of need to explain here. and stuff. So, Evan, as somebody that's probably not as deep into all of this stuff. Certainly not Jesse and I. Right. where where can we, help you out?
01:37:38:25 - 01:37:40:21
Speaker 3
Let me help. Let me talk to you.
01:37:40:21 - 01:37:42:17
Speaker 1
Okay, I got it.
01:37:42:20 - 01:38:16:08
Speaker 4
ladies and gentlemen, it's time for story time. This story is a journey into Jesse's mind. As he experiences the world of Final Fantasy, I am. So you can just, I'll go point by point, and it is going to be a gross oversimplification. absolutely. Of the beautiful mural that you just painted. And you can say, yes, you can say no, or you can feel free to modify my interpretation of your.
01:38:16:08 - 01:38:17:23
Speaker 3
Oh, I will, don't you worry.
01:38:17:23 - 01:38:27:22
Speaker 4
Okay, great. Good good good good. As we start our journey, you said that.
01:38:27:24 - 01:38:28:29
Speaker 3
Yes, yes. Go on.
01:38:29:21 - 01:38:36:19
Speaker 4
Once upon a time, the dev said that Advent children can.
01:38:36:21 - 01:39:03:00
Speaker 4
So once upon a time, the dev said that Advent Children is still canon. Therefore. And in your opinion, that means that the story is somewhat anchored in having to conform to the what happens in Advent Children. So you're saying that that means that it is almost objective fact that Sephiroth still exists in the life stream in three parts, and that those events still take place.
01:39:03:00 - 01:39:06:27
Speaker 4
So Sephiroth still exists in the life stream in three parts, because they have said.
01:39:06:28 - 01:39:27:25
Speaker 3
30 to 30 really quickly. Several exist in live stream as a whole, but in Advent Children he creates three characters. There we go. Each represents a different part of himself, and then he's using them in Advent Children as an example. They come off as kind of children. they don't really know why they're doing what they're doing. They just do it because it's what they're designed to do.
01:39:27:26 - 01:39:49:27
Speaker 3
Yeah. again, I'm not a big fan of additions like Advent Children. Looks cool, has a lot of cool fights, but like, story wise, it's kind of all over the place. But that's one thing that for sure we know is that they are designed to find the the remains of Jenova for Sephiroth, who is in the live stream, who has been defeated there, in front of, I guess.
01:39:49:29 - 01:40:08:02
Speaker 2
one, one. question for you, Jesse. The devs have said that Advent Children is canon. It's going to be linked up with this re trilogy. are you of the mindset that if this is such a wild way of asking it, but if time is linear?
01:40:10:09 - 01:40:26:03
Speaker 2
does the remake trilogy happen after Advent Children? Meaning is this re trilogy akin to a sequel, or is this a reimagining of the original without negating the original just as a different world? What would you say?
01:40:26:06 - 01:40:33:24
Speaker 3
I think that goes to the definition of linked up. Like they basically say that they don't say this happens afterwards, but you say they're connected.
01:40:33:25 - 01:40:35:08
Speaker 1
You say it links up.
01:40:35:10 - 01:41:06:05
Speaker 3
And I and I feel like that's the key in that it is the grounding fundamental of what this game is rather than this will lead to that in my mind. the best way to think about it is if there are, like if you start movie one, watch it all the way through and then rewind it like anyone, rewind anything, rewind it, and then play for other movies or however at the same time.
01:41:06:07 - 01:41:35:00
Speaker 3
You've already experienced movie one, but movie one is still playing at the same time as the other movies now. And I think that's what's happening. Is Final Fantasy seven the original? It happened, but everything now is happening like after the fact happening layered on top of each other. so it's that so even children exist Final fantasy into Dirge of Cerberus, into advent, like all those things exist crisis core.
01:41:35:06 - 01:41:53:21
Speaker 3
They all exist. But now a bunch of other versions are being layered on top of them. And the question is how many and how long they've been going on. And, all of that, and also the question of how long does it go back? Like is there a start point or is it throughout all time in history? Just keep.
01:41:53:24 - 01:42:13:25
Speaker 3
And so that's a lot of questions, not about answers just like quantum mechanics. But it's one of those things where I feel like that is the anchor. And saying these characters, even though they died in the game, exist in live stream, and because they're special or because they refuse to, like, rejoin with the live stream, they exist separately of it.
01:42:13:27 - 01:42:40:04
Speaker 3
And so they exist with outside, outside of time and space. So they're kind of like gods looking down on reality and altering it as they see fit to win. It's kind of the vibe I'm getting from this. And so while we are playing through seven, the original, it is again movie one, and then that ends. But everything kind of rewinds outside of space and time.
01:42:40:04 - 01:42:53:10
Speaker 3
So now there's layers on top of it. So seven still exists and it will play out the same way, but there's other versions of it happening, and they're all trying to find the version where they win. And okay, if that happens, I don't know what occurs.
01:42:53:12 - 01:42:53:28
Speaker 1
At all that.
01:42:54:01 - 01:42:58:03
Speaker 3
Means, but they're all trying to win in the end is kind of the vibe. I'm going for it.
01:42:58:05 - 01:43:01:28
Speaker 2
Okay, great. Thank you for that. Evan, what other bullet points you have there?
01:43:02:05 - 01:43:25:00
Speaker 4
Well, you just kind of reviewed the next one, which was great. the fact that, Aerith is probably still in the lifestream, and that the way that time passes or doesn't, maybe there is no time in the life stream impacts how she is able to interact with the world and how we see her do that in the game.
01:43:25:02 - 01:43:43:06
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think that's absolutely correct. There's a lot of questions about the live stream I simply have no answers to, for example, what the purpose of sort of the Zack storyline is. is he there to atone for something? Is that how the live stream sort of prepares you to rejoin it? he has a whole story.
01:43:43:09 - 01:44:08:15
Speaker 3
And the question is, then why do other characters show up in that? Is it because of memories you created? But like, why the characters you never met show up in that? There's a lot of questions that just aren't answered. but maybe it's not about him. Maybe it's the idea that this is, people Earth have put there for him to then assist with him going to the point where he helps cloud, during the fight at the end, who knows?
01:44:08:16 - 01:44:25:18
Speaker 3
Like, we just don't have the answers to any of that. And again, quantum mechanics, maybe like, there's some things you just never will know the answer to and just to be accepted. And so I feel like maybe that's kind of the space where there's just a lot happening and we may get answers, we may not. And so that's, you know, that's where I'm at with the live stream.
01:44:25:18 - 01:44:29:15
Speaker 3
It's it's a mess. But maybe we're not designed to understand it. Maybe that's the point.
01:44:29:22 - 01:44:47:22
Speaker 4
We're at this really fun point in a trilogy where the second movie has the most freedom to do the most interesting things, right. and so it's really fun to get to have these conversations right now. And I like the way personally, that they divided the games up into three, in, in this way. So, you know, it's interesting.
01:44:47:24 - 01:44:48:18
Speaker 3
Because back to.
01:44:48:21 - 01:44:49:04
Speaker 4
Yourself.
01:44:49:04 - 01:45:04:20
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. Back to the matrix. It's the same idea where it's they threw out all these ideas, like the first movie set the groundwork for the second movie. They were like, it's going to get weird. We're going to throw some things out there and we're gonna have like some really cool moments. And then somehow a character is going to exist in reality.
01:45:04:27 - 01:45:21:22
Speaker 3
And so it makes you think like, well, what is real and how does this work? And what is the foundations of like, is any of this real? Is it a computer thing within a computer thing in a matrix anime. And then the sad part is, is they have to decide on things and be like, this is the ending and if it's not what you're expecting, it's a huge letdown.
01:45:21:25 - 01:45:36:27
Speaker 3
Which again is where I'm at. And so I think by saying, look there's some things I'll just never understand, I'm bracing myself for maybe it not being what I want at all. Right. And just yeah, the devs are going to create an ending and we just have to accept that's the ending that they created. But who knows, right?
01:45:36:27 - 01:45:43:03
Speaker 3
If the less pressure I put on myself to nail it, the more I'm like, it's fine if it isn't exactly what I wanted.
01:45:43:06 - 01:45:49:12
Speaker 4
Yeah, we're having a great time. In the mystery of it, right? Anything before I jump into the next point?
01:45:49:14 - 01:46:22:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, Jesse, I think you're spot on with this idea of the live stream. While there's a lot of murkiness to the understanding of the live stream, generally, we, we can discern that the live stream has, some sense of being omni temporal, right? It is past, present and future. And people can exist in there, or at least the, the, their consciousness or at least their, essence can exist in their memory of them, and can actually exist in past, present and future.
01:46:22:00 - 01:46:47:14
Speaker 2
And the reason that I think is important is you've said a couple of times. And so for our listeners and for Evan, who may not fully understand all of this stuff, it Sephiroth, five years prior to the present in the game, falls into the live stream, and this is where he acquires the knowledge of the ancients, the memories of the planet, and really finds the secrets of the live stream.
01:46:47:19 - 01:47:18:29
Speaker 2
Aerith, presumably in her death, goes into the live stream at that point, at least in the present temporality sort of thing. And what that means is that they can, in ways, if they are conscious of the flow of time, linear linearly, they can navigate this live stream to affect past, present and future. And so I just kind of wanted to say that in that way, Evan, because there's a lot of transcending, just the, the temporal nature of, of linear time there.
01:47:18:29 - 01:47:22:00
Speaker 2
So again, not to get too heady with that, but it's a.
01:47:22:00 - 01:47:43:12
Speaker 3
Metaphor that brings up the fact that in the live stream, what is real, what is not is a big issue. Because if it's everything, it can also be nothing. Which again, it's starting to get out there that, that, that yeah, they can be everywhere and do anything, but also if it is everywhere and doing anything and it's also not there.
01:47:43:15 - 01:48:05:17
Speaker 3
So it's there's a, there's a lot to think about when it comes to that because it's so metaphysical what it is, and it was so much more simpler in the original. It was like, that is the blood of the planet. Sure. And when you die, you return to it and new things. Now it's a whole other thing where it's beyond space and time, because it isn't blood and it isn't oil that is being sucked up.
01:48:05:20 - 01:48:23:04
Speaker 3
Like there's a different message because very clear in the original, it's like they're killing the planet by draining the oil of the planet. And this is a different experience entirely, where there's something else happening and they're they're getting a little more out there with what it actually is. And, we'll see where it goes.
01:48:23:11 - 01:48:41:05
Speaker 2
And I think that that's such a really interesting way of leaning into this with this remake trilogy is because that makes Shinra all the worse. Right? This isn't just oil or fossil fuels that they're consuming. This is like lives. This is the essence of life on the planet. And when you suck that up, life dies like the planet.
01:48:41:07 - 01:49:09:20
Speaker 2
is is broken. fundamentally, at that point, somebody in my YouTube comments a couple of weeks ago made a really interesting observation that I keep thinking about, and they said in the original game, the focus was on how Jenova was manipulating memories of specific characters and breaking down the mindset of cloud. But what if Jenova is infection of kind of the psyche isn't just for cloud, but it's the planet as a whole.
01:49:09:20 - 01:49:38:09
Speaker 2
Therefore it's subverting the memory of the planet. Therefore, to your question and to the trailer's question, what is fact and what is fiction? Even history and present and future? All of that's called into question because the planet is being subverted by Jenova. And for those that that may not remember this moment in chapter one of rebirth, several of himself himself says that Jenova can, become the things that we hate.
01:49:38:16 - 01:50:05:18
Speaker 2
and also in chapter five, become the things that we hate and take the form of things to kind of mess with our psyche. And this creates a rift between, Cloud and Tifa. For example, early on. And so I would be curious, what do you think of that sort of interpretation? How much you reckon with that? Is this a Jenova sort of thing with the whispers and the canon flow of things being disseminated at the end of remake?
01:50:05:18 - 01:50:06:12
Speaker 2
What? What do you do with that?
01:50:06:19 - 01:50:36:19
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think it's it's probably accurate to the point that in, Advent Children, the whole thing that's happening is the geo stigma, which is for all the people, especially children, just slowly being messed up by the after effects of you. Nova. So it's very obvious that your Nova is still a thing, and at least from my interpretation from the original and at least what I think is going on this, even though for us the big bad, you know, was the one controlling him, right?
01:50:36:20 - 01:50:57:19
Speaker 3
So he does everything he does because not just that he's like all my cells are to Nova like I was, but because too Nova is a corrupting influence. That's the whole point, is it's this force from outside the galaxy that, you know, this whole thing is just goes from planet to planet to planet, killing the planet and then ejecting itself back out into space and doing it all over again.
01:50:57:24 - 01:51:25:24
Speaker 3
Like, that's the vibe of what Jenova does. Yeah. And so I think, having it be sort of more of a, instead of a, like, virus thing, more cosmic horror, I think, is what they're going for. And having it not just it comes and kills, but really it is messing with people and because originally it was the cells in Sephiroth were Jenova, because cloud had several cells, he was linked to that.
01:51:26:01 - 01:51:49:05
Speaker 3
And so there was like a Jenova vibe. But now it's no, this is this thing is in the planet infecting it. Not just what we, see for our two main characters, but also what we see in just existence. It is in the live stream. It is changing time and space. A lot of the fights with Jenova in Rebirth and Remake, it just appears and it's like, hey, I'm here now and I'm gonna fight you.
01:51:49:10 - 01:52:07:10
Speaker 3
And I was like, where'd that come from? How's that there? What's the point of that? it takes over some of the, various, like, wandering zombie corpses of people who were once soldiers who have been infected and are slowly turning. And that's the same thing that we get a little bit of that, like, what's going to happen to cloud?
01:52:07:10 - 01:52:28:17
Speaker 3
What's the vibe there? Is cloud also turning what's. And that's been a big thing since the original, is that there's this slow morphing of cloud and we start losing him and we see that here that something is clearly off. But then we have the idea of the, sort of white holy materia and that's a whole other thing that now exists.
01:52:28:17 - 01:52:47:14
Speaker 3
Plus now there's another materia that's just like empty, blank, transparent. I have no idea what that's for. I don't know what's in. They've included all these other things. So for every question they ask and for every mystery they give, they also just throw in a MacGuffin. That could be the thing that solves it. And I'm here for that.
01:52:47:14 - 01:53:12:07
Speaker 3
The question is, how do we all put it together in a way that makes sense to a player? Because I feel like at the end you just want to have an answer that you're like, satisfied with and makes sense to you, even if it doesn't answer everything. Having say, for example, in my mind, it's very obvious that you have a black and white materia that were the things that existed in the original and make they can save the universe or not.
01:53:12:07 - 01:53:30:28
Speaker 3
Whatever. But then you have this third one now, which I think is the whole point of including it, which is it's about good spicy. What is this? How does it work? What's the point of this? And it could be anything from a complete game changer to just that's the thing that gives cloud control over himself again. So it could be anything.
01:53:30:28 - 01:53:51:13
Speaker 3
Who knows? But they included it because like, now we're going to give you something else to work with. We're going to mess with this. But again, it comes down to timelines. And one, it has been used. And so it's just an empty thing and one it hasn't because everything is dead and one it there's so many different ways to look at this now because there's so many layers that it can be very confusing.
01:53:51:16 - 01:53:53:00
Speaker 3
And I think that's kind of the point.
01:53:53:02 - 01:53:56:08
Speaker 2
Sure. To even.
01:53:56:10 - 01:54:00:06
Speaker 1
Oh yeah. Well, I mean, it's just your thoughts on that.
01:54:00:11 - 01:54:06:15
Speaker 2
I just I just know that you have like a list of things over there, and I want to I want us to honor that.
01:54:06:15 - 01:54:07:25
Speaker 1
So, okay, so.
01:54:07:25 - 01:54:26:15
Speaker 4
Here's this, potential thing that we've identified is the, truly, maybe the most altering thing for the story of the game. Or it could be an entirely just device to get one other thing to happen. It could be a full McGuffin, and we have no idea what it is. And it's it's one of the biggest mysteries at the end of this game.
01:54:26:17 - 01:54:31:13
Speaker 4
Even.
01:54:31:16 - 01:54:32:14
Speaker 1
so I think.
01:54:32:16 - 01:54:35:09
Speaker 3
excellent summary.
01:54:35:12 - 01:54:36:09
Speaker 1
I think I'm.
01:54:36:09 - 01:55:01:20
Speaker 4
Curious, about, framing that within the context of Earth and Sephiroth in this struggle, in the life stream back and forth, and that being the dynamic. Right, this idea of, as you said it here, back story time. Sorry, that there's it's a perpetual battle between two combatants, one, being stewards of the planet and one being foreign.
01:55:01:20 - 01:55:27:15
Speaker 4
That cosmic horror that you referenced, and that a lot of the things that we can't explain or some of the mystery is connected to a cosmic battle in the life stream that is transcending these events or timelines, be they parallel or converging at times. I wonder, Wade, if that would be a good place to kind of start picking some of this apart a little bit and kind of set that up.
01:55:27:18 - 01:55:28:21
Speaker 4
framing conversation.
01:55:28:24 - 01:55:41:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. This is, this kind of conversation is where, Rebirth and Remake get a lot of critiques regarding it's Kingdom Hearts nature. Because actually, in Kingdom Hearts three, there is a chess game.
01:55:41:05 - 01:55:42:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
01:55:42:12 - 01:56:02:06
Speaker 2
So when you when you say that, I'm immediately saying, oh gosh, this is very much like that. And but it does feel like that is the case especially with the climactic moment in rebirth where you have Aerith stepping out to face Sephiroth, alongside cloud, even after her death. Question mark.
01:56:02:12 - 01:56:02:20
Speaker 1
Will you.
01:56:02:20 - 01:56:05:21
Speaker 4
Explain that a little bit more for people who may not know what you're referencing?
01:56:05:24 - 01:56:06:24
Speaker 2
Let's say again, I'm sorry, will.
01:56:06:24 - 01:56:10:06
Speaker 4
You just explain the significance of her stepping out over cloud one?
01:56:10:07 - 01:56:30:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in the climactic battle, after her alleged death scene, cloud is in this kind of a world between worlds is what I will call it. where he's facing off against Sephiroth. And then there's a portal, almost Avengers Endgame style, where Aerith steps out and it's the two of them against Sephiroth in this battle.
01:56:30:02 - 01:56:35:23
Speaker 2
And so it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, are you dead? Are you alive? Either way, we're going to fight Sephiroth together.
01:56:35:24 - 01:56:49:08
Speaker 3
At the same time, though, in this climactic ending. Yeah, a character who cloud lost shows up as well. And he helps cloud during this fight, but he is also very dead and we get questioned.
01:56:49:08 - 01:56:50:00
Speaker 2
Mark.
01:56:50:03 - 01:57:10:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, we get a plotline through this game where Zach, a character who has died prior to the final phase seven story starting, has returned and we see him go back to a version of Midgar where our main characters, for the most part, are dead. And so he is going through an experience. But the question is, what reality is that?
01:57:10:08 - 01:57:39:09
Speaker 3
Because in Zack's storyline of this game, our characters died at the end of remake during the big, sort of tornado crazy scene and their bodies are recovered by Shinra. Except in that space. Cloud and Aerith exist, but are unconscious. Which means that in my mind, and this is the thing I thought about the entire time, because I even said while I was playing, on stream, I was like, they're going to do a thing.
01:57:39:09 - 01:57:45:24
Speaker 3
The minute they introduced the unconscious bodies of Cloud and Aerith, I come out of Earth unconscious, but I feel like she was.
01:57:45:26 - 01:57:46:26
Speaker 2
She is. Yeah.
01:57:46:28 - 01:58:11:16
Speaker 3
And and I thought, oh, that is the way that through this story, they will keep moving back and forth between the realities is there's only in in this story. There was only one from this point on one consciousness of cloud. Yeah. He's going to move back and forth between all these different versions of himself. And that's that's what I thought that the Zack storyline was real.
01:58:11:18 - 01:58:36:14
Speaker 3
Now I'm not even sure it's real. I'm right thinking maybe it was just a version of him in the live stream experiencing things to get him to the point he needed to be there to help cloud to. And again, it's an unanswered question. It's very, sort of intentionally convoluted to be a mystery. But then I was like, oh, so Aerith is in cloud are going to move back and forth between realities.
01:58:36:16 - 01:58:56:06
Speaker 3
And this is all part of her, game to win. And the best way to describe this is even though chess is accurate, there is a subreddit that I do not remember the exact name of it I wish I did. It's something chess, and the whole point is people put a chessboard down and eventually it's like an arrow and a taco and, like a bigfoot.
01:58:56:06 - 01:59:18:12
Speaker 3
And they just keep adding things. It's like just convoluted chess, like, oh, well, this beats that, this and that, I think is what's happening here. So yeah, it's a chess board, but they're literally throwing anything they can at it to win. And in this case Earth was like, all right, we're gonna mess with time. I'm going to not only help from you on the grid, but I'm going to send this other guy who was Cloud's mentor, to help as well, and we're going to just do this whole thing.
01:59:18:12 - 01:59:46:20
Speaker 3
So even though at the end, Sephiroth clearly has the upper hand and has been planning manipulating cloud the entire time, Earth shows up with a totally other character that we thought was dead. It was like, nah, dude, let's. And so again, they butt heads and there really is no winner. And it's like, see, in the third one. And that's again the the vibe of the entire rebirth as a story is just they're constantly battling and everything they do is like this person will do one attack and this person will do another, and they're just taking peace for peace, for peace.
01:59:46:22 - 02:00:05:24
Speaker 3
And then at the end, they're kind of like stalemate. All right, let's try this again. The implication, though, of course, is that several us like you fool I have been planning way ahead. And I was like, no, I've been planning way ahead. And it comes down to this thing that even at the end, yeah, all the other characters are totally sad and depressed.
02:00:05:26 - 02:00:39:25
Speaker 3
Tifa is a complete mess at the end of this, and I don't know that she knows who to trust, and I think she's really pissed off at cloud. Meanwhile, cloud as a character is like I saw Aerith as a real person. Like, I'm not even sure Earth is dead and he's going through a whole thing. And again, I don't know if this is something that we can say cloud or sorry, Earth and Sephiroth, I feel like are operating so outside a time and space that even though I want to give them like Earth did this thing because it's good or whatever, I'm not even sure that's the case, right?
02:00:39:27 - 02:01:02:07
Speaker 3
I feel like she may be so concerned with winning this thing to save the planet, but these people who she knows and loves may be pieces in the process to get it done, rather than characters that she cares about. Because she's outside space and time. It could get real weird, you know what I mean? Like being it's very much like a Doctor Manhattan kind of vibe.
02:01:02:09 - 02:01:11:03
Speaker 3
Like, yeah, I can love people, but after a while I'm so disconnected from reality that, like, do I anymore or is this about something bigger?
02:01:11:06 - 02:01:14:11
Speaker 4
You're the first one to reference Watchmen so far.
02:01:14:14 - 02:01:41:05
Speaker 2
Oh, that's true, but it's a it's a pretty apt comparison, I would say. when you get somebody that is so beyond the, the, I guess the connection to reality, to the present, to time, in view of eternity or life stream mindset, then you do lose a little bit of grip. and you see life as not life death, but also the sense of rebirth.
02:01:41:05 - 02:02:02:14
Speaker 2
And there's this existence beyond that think that there is there's a lot of that in the first game and remake, right, where Aerith is like, you know, the plates going to fall. I mean, she doesn't say this, but it's very much like what will be will be. Oh, right. And it is this, I call it a Calvinistic trust in what is planned.
02:02:02:14 - 02:02:25:25
Speaker 2
Right. It's predestination. And then at the end of the remake, you have the complete subversion of that where the whispers, you know, you defeat the whispers. And I have a question on that. At the end of remake, what do you think happens? Does Sephiroth goad the party into defeating the whispers, or did the whispers need to be defeated?
02:02:25:25 - 02:02:28:19
Speaker 2
Were they infected? What do you make of that?
02:02:28:21 - 02:02:35:26
Speaker 3
I think sadly, any interpretation I had is changed because of rebirth and the fact that there are now white whispers.
02:02:35:28 - 02:02:36:21
Speaker 2
Yes, sure.
02:02:36:22 - 02:03:01:27
Speaker 3
Or gray or whatever color there. There's two different types. And so in my assumption is that perhaps those at one point in time, this was sort of the way of time correcting itself. But then Sephiroth at the end has taken, oh, like taken over that portion. And so the white ones are Aerith trying to reassert herself into whatever the hell these things are be.
02:03:01:28 - 02:03:19:01
Speaker 3
It's sort of arbiters of fate or whatever. Like he is clearly controlled them. By the end, he becomes like made of them and becomes a giant monster. So it's very obvious that he controls him in some way. But for the most part, throughout most of the story, they're kind of just like, no, that's the way it's got to be.
02:03:19:03 - 02:03:39:17
Speaker 3
You can't, a great example is when Reno shows up to fight, and I was just going to kill him and they're like, no, dude, that doesn't happen to the original. So they pull him away. And maybe that's one of the very first signs that we're seeing that, perhaps there is a version where the live stream does not like people messing with it.
02:03:39:20 - 02:03:58:21
Speaker 3
And so Sephiroth and Aerith are both unnatural in it. And so these things are trying to correct, correct. What should have been a natural progress of what did happen. But because the layers start building, you know, towards the end of like as you go through remake, like I was saying, oh, static flashes happen more and more and more and more.
02:03:58:27 - 02:04:19:18
Speaker 3
And again, I totally convinced that isn't like Severus Smith of Cloud. I think that's straight up just a different. We're seeing a different reality every time. And the reason I firmly believe that is when that starts happening towards the end of rebirth, the dog in the background stamp is different. Yeah. With each, each time there's a, there's a different dog that we see.
02:04:19:22 - 02:04:20:06
Speaker 3
And I was like.
02:04:20:13 - 02:04:21:21
Speaker 1
Oh, what?
02:04:21:26 - 02:04:31:03
Speaker 3
So I think that means that we're seeing multiple timelines and it's only towards the end of rebirth that it really starts to overlap. And we see how truly many there really are.
02:04:31:04 - 02:04:32:03
Speaker 4
No. Yeah.
02:04:32:06 - 02:04:53:15
Speaker 2
The devs have said that the Zach Interlude episodes, and some of this stuff with stamp and all of that, it's a way of explaining and expanding the lore of the live stream. So what what can you deduce about the live stream based on this, given the idea.
02:04:53:17 - 02:04:59:29
Speaker 3
At the end? And I correct me if I'm wrong, Zach, when he helps, he's like, hey dude, thanks. Saying like sort of fades away. I'm pretty sure that's what happens to him.
02:05:00:03 - 02:05:07:08
Speaker 2
He says, saves her. that's like one of the last things that he says. And then he says, see you.
02:05:07:11 - 02:05:09:02
Speaker 1
You've got to be like, yeah.
02:05:09:02 - 02:05:13:02
Speaker 3
He gets like, like I'm going now. Like he's on my PS5.
02:05:13:03 - 02:05:14:09
Speaker 1
Beat me.
02:05:14:11 - 02:05:42:28
Speaker 3
Yeah. He just sort of. I wonder if the. So when Tifa is on the livestream, she experiences her past and moments of her past. And I wonder if, because she fell into it, she's experiencing it differently. But if you die, for example, when you go there, the experience is one of, Again, I don't know if if atonement the right word, but it's sort of like you get hit with a little bit of purgatory first before you can achieve some sort of like, returning to live stream.
02:05:43:02 - 02:06:09:22
Speaker 3
Or maybe you have to be willing to, and then something happens there. But what it sets up to us is that it isn't just you die and then become green goop, like there's a process by which you're ingratiate yourself into the live stream. And, in Zach's case, his was it's kind of like if you the movie trope of, like, when someone dies and then you see, like their spirit wake up and they look at their body and like, whoa, what's that about?
02:06:09:24 - 02:06:27:27
Speaker 3
I think Zach dies during the scene right before the game starts. And we get the sort of the end scene of crisis core, and we get to see him sort of go out. But then in that, in his mind, or at least he lives. The question would be then if he turned around, what, he still see his body there?
02:06:28:03 - 02:06:52:13
Speaker 3
But the idea is he walked away from that and then he experiences a whole story and journey. But it's really him being led, I think, by Aerith, to go help cloud. It also could just be the Lifestream did it or he wanted it to happen again. Not really sure. On the fine points there, but it is clearly something has occurred within the livestream for him to guide him to help with cloud.
02:06:52:13 - 02:07:00:28
Speaker 3
And again, it could be that, yeah, there's Aerith and several fighting, but it could be the live stream as a whole third entity that's like, how about you both get out of here?
02:07:01:00 - 02:07:04:28
Speaker 1
That's the second. Hey, the Western person gone? Well, time to go.
02:07:04:28 - 02:07:27:28
Speaker 2
Yeah, this is a really interesting piece. You know, you mentioned earlier that Sephiroth is being manipulated by Jenova and, several of his said several times, that the reunion is the merging of worlds. This is the reunion of worlds. And so we get all of these different worlds from stand. Why did you think that Sephiroth wants to merge all of these?
02:07:27:28 - 02:07:31:03
Speaker 2
And what does that even mean to merge them into one?
02:07:31:05 - 02:07:54:26
Speaker 3
I think that's referring to the timelines, the multiple timelines happening that by making them one, there can literally be only one ending. And his plan is to just collide them all together. And it may just be either pure chaos, which at that point he still wins. Or it could be that the end game is I have a plan that's going to take us to a conclusion, which would be the next game where all these timelines come together.
02:07:55:03 - 02:08:19:12
Speaker 3
And I mean, that could we could get a full on eight clouds, 20 clouds at once. It could be crazy. but the idea that he is trying to at least the case if he's controlled by Jenova, which I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of him as a character, is that we see in Final Fantasy seven, the original, the cloud, the Sephiroth we've been fighting most of the game is like, not even the real dude.
02:08:19:12 - 02:08:23:23
Speaker 3
That guy is right frozen up in the thing. the idea.
02:08:23:24 - 02:08:26:00
Speaker 2
The pain, the real dude. Yet.
02:08:26:03 - 02:08:44:21
Speaker 3
You know, I because every time that we fight him or see him, he's one of the many soldiers. I think he's just on the livestream doing his thing. so the question will be how do they interpret that for what happens towards the end, the Final Fantasy seven where we discover kind of like half of him or whatever he's doing.
02:08:44:24 - 02:09:06:05
Speaker 3
I'm very curious what they do with that and how they explain that story, but maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe that's the whole point is like from this point on, it's going to get totally different. It's gonna be weird. but the idea that if he's controlled by Jenova and Jenova plan is like, look, I just suck up the life of worlds, and that's my whole thing.
02:09:06:07 - 02:09:25:07
Speaker 3
the again, cosmic war. We don't know why. We shouldn't really know why. It's that's what it does. And it messes with people and controls people through its various cells. And then as you learn to Cerberus the whole planets, it's like, bye, haters. And after the world leaves and goes to destroy other worlds, and that's all we really should know.
02:09:25:07 - 02:09:41:13
Speaker 3
Frankly, I'm totally fine with not knowing more about Jenova. I think it's terrifying as a concept that this thing just like goes around killing worlds. It's kind of like, you know, various carnival characters or whatever. Like, I go around, I eat a world and I'm like this and it's like, but why? Is it because I'm hungry, dude?
02:09:41:15 - 02:10:04:26
Speaker 3
Like, that's it. That's really all it needs to be. And so that's fine because it has that cosmic horror vibe to it. Like we all understand it and it gets really weird. And now they're messing with time and space and what we see is reality. Very, very cool stuff. I love that, but if deep down the idea is that if there's all these timelines, then it's sort of there could still be one where it doesn't happen.
02:10:04:29 - 02:10:13:15
Speaker 3
And maybe as a cosmic entity, you you can't just like, what do you do in one timeline? You went in one time, you line, you loose.
02:10:13:19 - 02:10:14:04
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:10:14:06 - 02:10:37:16
Speaker 3
It's too confusing for like, you can imagine something that's outside space of time being like, let's just keep it simple, guys. You can do crazy. Like, you know what? Let me just eat this planet. Move on. And so maybe that's not part of, like, you know, it could be one of those things where if the dominoes were Aerith wins technically and saves the planet, even though humanity is pretty much gone.
02:10:37:18 - 02:10:58:12
Speaker 3
If Earth wins, then Jenova loses. And, you know, it was like, no, no, no. So I'm going to go back in the live stream and do another thing. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm gonna make another timeline where this happens, okay? It just keeps building and building and building. And so I would imagine that you have this sort of entity that's like, all right, we need to get them all back together.
02:10:58:12 - 02:11:03:20
Speaker 3
Like, it's too much, it's too confusing. We make them all together. And if they're all one and I win then we're done.
02:11:08:08 - 02:11:10:24
Speaker 2
For those that are listening right now.
02:11:10:27 - 02:11:14:14
Speaker 1
I'm so sorry. And it's okay. No.
02:11:14:17 - 02:11:16:00
Speaker 3
If your headache is appropriate.
02:11:16:05 - 02:11:36:28
Speaker 2
No this is, this is beautiful because like one of the big questions is why would you tell the story this way. You know like the original game, not a lot of people. There were some plot gaps, plot holes. And it's like, where did Zack, who is Zack? in the original game, there's like optional scenes that you totally miss out on if you don't go to certain places in the original game.
02:11:37:00 - 02:11:49:29
Speaker 2
And so there was a way that they could have remade this game in a very straightforward fill in those plot hole sort of things. Why do you think they're telling the story this way?
02:11:50:01 - 02:12:11:00
Speaker 3
besides creativity and wanting to do something new and fun and like. something they've done for years and years and years is, you know, just square. And now Square Enix is just a company always tries to get a little out there with their stories. I think it is a very smart way to get people to buy the next one.
02:12:11:02 - 02:12:31:21
Speaker 3
You're gonna make three games. You can't just say part one is made girl, boy, that was fun. And now we're we're going to jump off this bridge and run the overworld. Okay. See, in the overworld, like, if you know what's going to happen if you weren't totally in to what was going on in the first one, there's no hook to keep you around for the second one, or there's no reason to buy it immediately.
02:12:31:24 - 02:12:55:03
Speaker 3
Again, this can turn people off. They may not like the idea of including stuff in it, but I think from a creative perspective, it allows you to do new and crazy things with something that is a property people already understand. It goes back to the idea of like, you already have Final Fantasy seven. It is a classic. You can buy it in many forms, so if we're going to make a remake, let's tell something different.
02:12:55:03 - 02:13:15:26
Speaker 3
Let's create a story that continues it, which is something they love to do. Final fantasy seven might be the only Final Fantasy where they were like, let's make so much more of this and milk and try. And they did. And this, I think, is another extension of that, which is, oh, it's fun, it's seven, but it's it's after adventure, but before Advent Children, but before fun.
02:13:16:00 - 02:13:34:28
Speaker 3
Like they created something that could both tell the story of Final Fantasy seven and continue the story for long time fans, which is a tough thing to do because again, you want to cater to both of them. I think this is the choice they made. And why do it? I don't know, because they like to get weird sometimes.
02:13:34:28 - 02:13:42:06
Speaker 3
Like sometimes. That's really that simple. They just again, Kingdom Hearts is a perfect example. They just like to get weird sometimes.
02:13:42:09 - 02:13:53:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. We just had by a Roxas who's a Kingdom Hearts creator on and he, he makes some great sense of all of that stuff. And I'm like, I, I will call you when I get through that series.
02:13:53:19 - 02:14:11:27
Speaker 3
I absolutely do not understand it. By the time I finished, it's fun. What did I just do? It's fun. The gameplay is amazing. I love this, but it's just so much that unless you played everything, the the craziest thing was the jump from Kingdom Hearts 1 to 2. Yeah, I remember playing two and being like, I've clearly missed something there.
02:14:11:28 - 02:14:25:05
Speaker 3
Like, oh, you would have had to play the, there was the handheld version and I was like, oh, well, okay. I'm very thankful they didn't do that with this. There's only 1 or 2 scenes where it's like, if you played these other games, you would need or read the.
02:14:25:05 - 02:14:28:00
Speaker 2
Book or, yeah, all those kinds of things.
02:14:28:02 - 02:14:41:00
Speaker 3
But they've been very, smart and just kind of keeping it simple and making all of the confusing bits, things that you don't have to be pre, sort of ingratiated with. You can just kind of figure it out as you go.
02:14:41:03 - 02:14:42:22
Speaker 4
Donald Duck is in this land.
02:14:42:24 - 02:14:47:00
Speaker 1
Donald ducks. Yeah. He's one of us stuck.
02:14:47:02 - 02:15:04:09
Speaker 3
Who doesn't? Yeah. Donald Duck fights like a thousand, several offs. I've always said we were fools for not having a three way fight. That if Disney is involved, they're fools. They should have had Sephiroth, Darth Vader, and, like, I don't know someone else in that fight.
02:15:04:09 - 02:15:06:07
Speaker 4
We can do Thanos now.
02:15:06:10 - 02:15:12:14
Speaker 3
There you go. Several there than us. Darth Vader versus Sora, cloud Luke like.
02:15:12:14 - 02:15:15:13
Speaker 1
And I mean, I don't, you like. Yeah.
02:15:15:15 - 02:15:25:02
Speaker 3
Let's get, what's his face? I don't know, Iron Man. Throw him in there like I. Man, it would've been the craziest thing. I would have played it just for that.
02:15:25:04 - 02:15:25:23
Speaker 1
spectacle.
02:15:25:23 - 02:15:31:29
Speaker 3
Alone. It would have been terrible. I would be like, what the hell is this? But, oh, my God, it would have been amazing. But, you know.
02:15:32:01 - 02:15:37:06
Speaker 4
I would pay $1,000 to watch goofy take a shield and slam it into Darth Vader and just go gory.
02:15:37:08 - 02:15:39:21
Speaker 3
That's all I can think of. It's like a ghost door.
02:15:39:21 - 02:15:44:15
Speaker 1
That's when I walk. I mean, that's what the world wants, right?
02:15:44:15 - 02:15:46:09
Speaker 3
Yeah. They should have done it.
02:15:46:11 - 02:15:48:13
Speaker 4
How do you want to watch it, Wade? How do you want to wrap it.
02:15:48:13 - 02:15:48:25
Speaker 1
Up.
02:15:48:28 - 02:15:54:12
Speaker 2
Is to kind of close this out here, because we've had so many things and people's minds are like blown and melted and all that.
02:15:54:14 - 02:15:58:29
Speaker 1
I'm sorry. No, that's the beauty of it. Right? Like I'm worried about you. This. Right.
02:15:59:01 - 02:16:18:15
Speaker 2
This entire series is about trying to make sense of this game because there's so many different, opinions and thoughts out there and, like, that's that's what we want to do, try to platform people to give their, their interpretation. I, I told Evan this is like going back to my dissertation days, like, trying to do a literature review.
02:16:18:15 - 02:16:44:29
Speaker 2
I'm just reviewing everybody's opinions out there. Right. and so trying to just make up my own mind on all this, I want to tap into, as we wrap up your history as a teacher, as an educator, as a, as a, observer of, and, kind of curator of history for students and all this kind of stuff.
02:16:45:02 - 02:17:13:02
Speaker 2
Because when it comes to teaching history, we learn lessons from the past. Right. And in this game, there's been a lot of talk about, you know, is it the same story? Is it a new story, is an add on to the story or the themes the same as the original game? Or do you think that there are new, themes, lessons and stories that the devs are telling through this one that they maybe didn't in the original game?
02:17:13:04 - 02:17:33:18
Speaker 3
I think it's a combination of both. I think the story tells you what the original was and the lessons that we learned from the original game, which again, going back to what we talked about the beginning, what they've done throughout all their games is try to give you something to think about. And the original gave you an entirely different set them.
02:17:33:21 - 02:17:57:09
Speaker 3
I think the remake and rebirth have done, which is yeah, it's there, the original concepts are there and the ideas are there, but they've added layers to it now so that if you've already experienced that, there's something else to think about. And, you know, there's the idea of parallel realities and quantum mechanics and timelines and what is real, that is a lot to think about.
02:17:57:09 - 02:18:21:09
Speaker 3
And it's something that I love thinking about because there's no answer. Like, I'm not going to know the answer to any of that ever. Yeah. And so I think that's something that is fun to delve into. And they have decided to do that. And whether it lands or not, at least at this point, doesn't particularly matter because they're just trying to ask questions and the next games where they have to actually come up with some answers and the answers may land, they may not.
02:18:21:15 - 02:18:39:02
Speaker 3
But it's the idea where we're at right now which is very compelling, which is why I take it back to The Matrix, which is I had no idea where they were going with that, and it was so open that you could sit around and talk like we're doing right now, about all the theories they throw out, all the loose threads, all the things they put out there.
02:18:39:04 - 02:18:48:20
Speaker 3
And we'll see. We'll see if they learned a fundamental lesson, like if you ask these questions, you better give some answer rather than like he was computer Jesus. Like there has to.
02:18:48:20 - 02:18:49:16
Speaker 1
Be a.
02:18:49:16 - 02:19:00:02
Speaker 3
Different answer. And we need something that is a little more, I don't wanna say grounded, but if you're going to present problems, give us some solution to the problems.
02:19:00:04 - 02:19:07:21
Speaker 2
Two final questions from me. what is your biggest hope for part three?
02:19:07:23 - 02:19:32:00
Speaker 3
oh, I definitely I think I just expressed it, the idea that we get something resolution, even if it's. Yeah, even it's not an answer that I like. It's an answer that just doesn't. And, you know, like, it doesn't just create an ending because we need an ending. It gives us something that is an answer to not only what these characters are up to, but also respects them as characters, as people, and treats them like they're real people.
02:19:32:00 - 02:19:52:09
Speaker 3
And I think the benefit of a video game is you have the time to do it. You don't. You're not limited to two three hours. You have the time to make it happen. So there's no excuse to just not do it. It's right there. You can make these characters have the conclusions they deserve, especially if this is like the last time, our last ride with them.
02:19:52:11 - 02:19:54:24
Speaker 3
They deserve the best you can give.
02:19:54:26 - 02:19:58:24
Speaker 2
Well, we would have also accepted more mini games. Yeah, I know that.
02:19:58:24 - 02:20:04:02
Speaker 1
That's not all right. No. I'm fine. That's good. Okay.
02:20:04:04 - 02:20:21:23
Speaker 2
Stories that we tell, or at least the stories that are worth telling, teach us more about humanity. our own existence, our own past experience. What is the message, or the story that you take from this game?
02:20:21:25 - 02:20:51:12
Speaker 3
First off, I think that's an incredibly well-put way to describe, kind of the attitudes of the time period we live in, which is if you look back at the stories that were being told originally, their stories that seem very obvious to us now, like having a story about and Final Fantasy six dealing with depression and suicide and the end of the world and everything following seven, dealing with sort of the idea of killing the planet you live on.
02:20:51:14 - 02:21:16:29
Speaker 3
Right. and in Final Fantasy eight, about the indoctrination of children and all these different things that go like Final Fantasy nine is straight up about like a child dealing with death. Is the premise. Like having or ten religion and and what goes on with that. And watching someone deal with a truly false religion that has been created and, and the way that they keep making these games and dealing with that is something that they, they excelled at.
02:21:16:29 - 02:21:50:04
Speaker 3
But by today's standards, that is, we've tread that path numerous times in numerous games. We've all done that before. So asking questions, creating something new needs to be something that is something we think about today. And I think with the increase in talking again about quantum mechanics and talking about alternate realities and looking at like a bubble universe, or looking at different things as science and ideas and views on religion and views on, philosophy and faith and all that stuff grow and expand.
02:21:50:06 - 02:22:07:25
Speaker 3
They are keeping up with that and creating something new for modern sensibilities to think about. And it's not going to be, boy, we probably shouldn't kill the Earth. Everyone knows that. Whether you have decided to accept it or not is a different story. But everyone knows, like we live here, so like, it'd probably be cool if we didn't blow it up or whatever.
02:22:07:27 - 02:22:26:25
Speaker 3
And so that telling that story again is kind of like we're just beating a dead horse. Why are we doing this? So creating a thing where it's like, okay, we're going to talk about some stuff that we are grappling with right now. We are trying to look at particle physics in reality, and we're trying to see like, how can something exist here but that exist on the opposite side of the galaxy and is time real?
02:22:26:25 - 02:22:54:02
Speaker 3
Is am I existing at the exact same time that Julius Caesar is existing? Are we all just layered on top of it? It's all there and it's all something that people are genuinely thinking about that they have no answers for. And they're delving into that because it is mysterious and it is weird, and it's a great mystery. They can add to this story to give us something completely different and new, and really mess with us and make us think and make us question things and make us have conversations like this where if you're sitting at home, you're probably like, what.
02:22:54:02 - 02:22:59:14
Speaker 1
The hell did he just say that is? He might be saying.
02:22:59:16 - 02:23:07:05
Speaker 3
Yeah, but they're doing it on purpose. This is clearly designed to make us have these conversations and make us talk about it and extend our hope for what is to come.
02:23:07:08 - 02:23:09:19
Speaker 4
It's a great framework for conversation. You're so right.
02:23:09:19 - 02:23:11:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely.
02:23:11:14 - 02:23:29:01
Speaker 2
Jesse, I can't thank you enough for being here. This has been one of the most kind of just mind bending, just amazing conversations that I've had, not just my Final Fantasy, but just like sharing the the joys and the frustrations of content creation. You have given us a real gift today and I cannot thank you enough. Thank you.
02:23:29:01 - 02:23:29:28
Speaker 2
Thank you for being here.
02:23:30:04 - 02:23:33:18
Speaker 3
Pleasure's entirely mine. Thank you. Thank you for letting me talk. I love to.
02:23:33:18 - 02:23:34:22
Speaker 1
Talk.
02:23:34:25 - 02:23:39:17
Speaker 2
We love to listen to you. Hey. How can people find you? Tell us a little bit about what you've got coming up.
02:23:39:21 - 02:23:41:00
Speaker 1
Yeah.
02:23:41:03 - 02:24:01:29
Speaker 3
good news is I have sort of put everything together on jessica.com. It's just links. That's all it is. Links to the YouTube and the Twitch and the podcast and everything I have is right there. So just SEO, dot com, everything's there, you can find all my stuff. I'm constantly doing things like, I have way too many podcasts.
02:24:01:29 - 02:24:18:16
Speaker 3
For example, one is called Illuminati, where we talk about this kind of stuff. Yeah. And, we get real weird with it. it's three of us talking about everything from paranormal stuff to UFOs to what reality is, all that stuff. And I have to sit there and be like, I don't think that's real. And they're like, oh, it's real, dude.
02:24:18:21 - 02:24:38:06
Speaker 3
And so I'm like, all right. And I also do, Cox and Crenshaw with, my wonderful co-host and we just imagine if Seinfeld was a podcast and there's no point to it. That's the podcast. and then I do all sorts of other things. We do weekends on Fridays, which is just talking nerdy stuff. I do all that.
02:24:38:06 - 02:24:49:17
Speaker 3
And then I also make videos, and I also stream, and I do way too much, as you said at the beginning. And now that I say it, I'm realizing it might be too much. So I will stop there and just say, Jessica, X-Com.
02:24:49:19 - 02:25:06:29
Speaker 2
Well, with with somebody as busy as you are and stuff, we we cannot thank you enough. Everybody go check out Jesse Cox, check out all of his stuff. and also, just thank you again for being a part of this Final Fantasy seven rebirth lecture series. every week we will have more interviews from other content creators.
02:25:07:06 - 02:25:19:28
Speaker 2
And on Tuesday and Thursday nights, starting at 7:30 p.m. central time, we have our lecture place as we make our way through rebirth in its entirety. Evan, any final thoughts before we close out?
02:25:20:00 - 02:25:21:17
Speaker 4
What a wonderful time.
02:25:21:20 - 02:25:22:22
Speaker 1
What a wonderful time.
02:25:22:22 - 02:25:38:23
Speaker 4
That's it. I'm grateful for both of you. This was a blast. Thank you everyone for for listening and engaging in the conversation. Hopefully it's a great framework. for you to just to get away and talk about some things in your life. And, we're grateful to the devs and the writers for all the work that we put in as well.
02:25:38:23 - 02:25:42:29
Speaker 4
So just a lot of gratitude all around. Bye bye everybody. We'll see you next episode.
02:25:43:05 - 02:25:43:28
Speaker 2
See you in class.
02:25:44:04 - 02:25:46:06
Speaker 3
See ya. I.
02:26:10:21 - 02:26:25:27
Speaker 1
Massive thanks to Jesse Cox for the interview. Thanks so much for taking the time to hang out with us and sharing all of your thoughts and theories. Big thanks to Husky by the geek for the use of our theme music. It was awesome! Thanks so much for making that for us. Thanks to Nick Smith who does our graphics, as always.
02:26:25:27 - 02:26:42:19
Speaker 1
And most of all, and most importantly, this program is brought to you by viewers like you. Thanks to you. Great job. Pat yourself on the back. Hope you're having a good week. Hope this finds you doing well and hang in there and we'll see you next episode. Bye bye.
