How FF7 Can Save a Person, with Lully Jo | ProfNoctis Show Ep. 16
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Evan
Hey, everybody, this is Evan. Welcome to the Prof. Noctis show. Just a reminder. Like, subscribe. Do all those things. There's not you only podcast format too. So pop those earbuds in your ear, go on a little walk and have a good time. This episode we are joined by the one and the only, Lily Joe, and it is a great conversation that you do not want to miss.
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Evan
Wade, what can we expect.
00:00:20:00 - 00:00:37:26
Wade
If you are a fan of theory, crafting, lore, crafting, trying to make sense of what could be happening at the end of rebirth and moving into part three, you're going to love this episode. There's a lot to do. We start out by learning a little bit about Lily Jo, and then we move into all of the theories, all of the ideas that you can possibly imagine.
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Wade
You're going to love this. So with that, let's mosey.
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Wade
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another installment of the Prof. Not this show. Today, Evan and I are joined by the one and only lovely Joe Bartlett, the creator, content creator, Kingdom Hearts fan, and all kinds of other stuff. Lily, how are you today?
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Lully Jo
I'm feeling great and I'm excited for her autumn to be coming in. I'm already dressed for it, even though it's 86 degrees today.
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Wade
86 degrees. Hey, listen, we want the season, right? Would you say autumn is your favorite season of the year?
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Lully Jo
It is? Yes.
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Wade
Okay, I love it. What is about Autumn?
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Lully Jo
I love the changing of the leaves. I've also been, like, a melancholy kind of girl my whole life. So it's like things are dying. But it's like the cycle of life and death. Rebirth, you know? Wow.
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Wade
Okay, a little teaser for later.
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Lully Jo
Yeah.
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Evan
Stepping on an.
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Wade
Extra.
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Evan
Crunchy leaf.
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Lully Jo
Extra crunchy leaf. I love them crunchy leaves. And I love Halloween. It's always been my favorite.
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Wade
So, okay, as somebody born in October, I feel like I canonically have to love Autumn. And I do all right. I'm always ready for the leaf changing and the football season in my neck of the woods. That's a big deal. yeah. So football fan. Yay! Nay.
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Lully Jo
Not really, but when Michigan is going against the green Bay Packers, I am the biggest Lions fan you'll ever meet. Okay, okay.
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Wade
A little sore, a sore spot for me with Michigan, and Bama, last year, but that's okay. You know, we're we're all friends here.
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Lully Jo
Yes, we're all friends.
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Evan
This is a safe place for Lions fans here. You're good.
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Lully Jo
Oh. Thank you.
00:02:46:03 - 00:02:56:19
Evan
Guys have been a tortured fan base. And so it's good to see you doing a little bit better. And, we all love Dan Campbell. Your coach said don't worry about it. We're good.
00:02:56:22 - 00:03:22:10
Wade
Well, Lily, we're so excited to have you here today. you know, you have, been a of, a prolific and vital content creator for the last bit. today, we'd love to know a little bit more of your story, how you got started and stuff. I, I, you know, it's weird. I'm relatively new to the content creation space, and I'm just discovering all of these amazing creators all, all the time.
00:03:22:10 - 00:03:45:17
Wade
Right. And so I came across your stuff and I saw some of the ways, I really came through your stuff, from reaction videos and your immediate reactions to some of the iconic moments in remake and especially in rebirth. And, I was just like, who is this? And like, she's all over my feed. I'm so interested and invested in her emotional investment.
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Wade
So I'd love to know kind of about your content creation journey. How did you get started and what what built the Lolly Jo Empire?
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Lully Jo
well, so back in 2020, I was still in the middle of graduating from university, and I used to watch Sara Ki actually a lot. I she's a Kingdom Hearts, content creator. she plays a whole bunch of games, including Final Fantasy, but I just I loved being able to watch her reaction, and I used to watch a bunch of people's reactions to games, and I kept thinking, I wish I had a recording of the first time I experienced this game, because I have big reactions to moments.
00:04:26:16 - 00:04:43:17
Lully Jo
Like, for example, the first time I experienced Gareth's death, I was so distraught. I put the game down for a week. I would not pick it up because I was like, I cannot go on without her. Yeah, it was. I think it actually traumatized me a little bit. So.
00:04:43:19 - 00:04:47:14
Wade
So did you stream that or do you just remember that?
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Lully Jo
I remember that, yeah. No, I was only 14 when that came out. Mean I didn't get into content creation until I was in my late 20s, so it's been quite a while. But that was because I kept seeing so many people reacting to these games and thinking, I loved my reaction. I wish I could go back and see how I felt the first time I played, because I have these memories of of beating these games that I love and how much they impacted me, and I want to go back and revisit that moment.
00:05:14:23 - 00:05:35:01
Lully Jo
So that's why I got into it. And also, I like to talk a lot about games and the artistry of storytelling and how video games are a beautiful medium through which we can tell stories. And it's it becomes a very interactive experience. It's interactive art, and I love that. And I wanted to be able to talk about that.
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Lully Jo
So that's what got me into it initially.
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Evan
That's really cool. You talk about reaction videos and that's kind of something that's new on the scene. I know people have been doing it for a while, but, we didn't really do reaction videos 30, 40 years ago. Right. It's kind of a new medium. As somebody who watches a lot and record some, I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about why you think they connect to what you enjoy about them, and kind of why you picked them as something that you want to record.
00:06:03:11 - 00:06:14:26
Evan
You mentioned wanting to have a, like, a kind of a copy of your reaction. So you can kind of see how you've reacted to it and you wish you could capture that moment. Tell us a little bit more about that and about the kind of that style.
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Lully Jo
And so with reaction videos, I think definitely it's because people want to have a recording of their first experience because it's so raw, like you're unprepared, you're going in without knowing at all what you're about to see. And if it's for like, something you've been waiting for for a long time, like for Remake or Rebirth, the first time you're seeing these images and it can blow your mind.
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Lully Jo
These are characters you haven't seen in a long time, and now you're seeing them in without context for a lot of it. And so these reactions are they're completely raw and honest. And I think something that fans love to do is they all love to like, bond over that. They have that moment of like, did you see that?
00:06:54:28 - 00:07:11:07
Lully Jo
Like that was amazing. Like, I want to see how this person feels or this is a person whose opinions I really respect. I want to know how they reacted to that. Yeah. So I think a lot of it is just a way for fans to connect with each other on an emotional level that it's you don't have context.
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Lully Jo
It's literally first sight. Like what? What did you think the first time you saw this without any context? And then some people come back later and they're like, okay, now that we've sat with this, yeah, how are we going to, break it apart? How are we going to analyze it? So I think it's it's definitely something that it offers a lot of communication between people in the community of all different backgrounds.
00:07:37:01 - 00:07:40:09
Lully Jo
And it's very interesting, very interesting conversations.
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Wade
So, yeah, I love that idea. You called it interactive art, you know, and the way that they're telling the story, I think that's a beautiful, just phrasing of that. When was the first time you thought of a video game as being, quote, interactive art?
00:08:01:05 - 00:08:27:25
Lully Jo
The first time. Honestly, it probably was something like Final Fantasy seven because I related so deeply to it. the characters didn't feel like characters. They felt like people I knew. Like people like aunts, uncles, friends, like people I could see in real life and how they talk to each other and how they react to things and everything, the way the world was filled.
00:08:27:25 - 00:08:46:20
Lully Jo
And that there's mysteries even within the world that don't have answers yet. Like nobody truly knows where Jenova came from. She's just the calamity that came from the sky. And I'm I'm one of the few people that's like, I want her to stay mysterious because I think the more you answer questions, the smaller your world gets.
00:08:46:22 - 00:08:50:26
Evan
Oh, the more you answer questions, the smaller your world get.
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Lully Jo
I think. Let's just let's just.
00:08:52:26 - 00:08:58:05
Evan
Jump right into that man a little bit. Hang out there. That is.
00:08:58:08 - 00:08:58:23
Lully Jo
So.
00:08:58:23 - 00:09:02:26
Wade
Good Evan. Go ahead.
00:09:02:29 - 00:09:09:04
Evan
Is is that the first time that's come out of your mouth. Or is that something that you kind of like to think about. Okay.
00:09:09:06 - 00:09:16:09
Wade
It's just a staggering statement. Ace tag like stop you in your tracks I love that I need to write that to break it.
00:09:16:09 - 00:09:29:16
Evan
Down a little bit for us. And what what makes you think about it that way? When the mystery is revealed and things become clear and the possibilities tie up, it shrinks your world. It sounds like you're saying, is that accurate?
00:09:29:18 - 00:09:50:28
Lully Jo
kind of, for the most part, is particularly as it pertains to world building. Especially because the thing about Final Fantasy seven is it feels so vast and like limitless. It feels huge. There's we know that there's an entire universe in Genova, came from it somewhere. And even the guy we don't truly know, we know that they're not part of the live stream.
00:09:51:01 - 00:10:11:11
Lully Jo
All, you know, rebirth. But I feel like so many people there, they crave knowledge. They want. They're like, put all this knowledge in the Shinra library. I want to research at all. But once you have that answer, you can't go back to the mystery. And it it closes the walls and it no longer is this vast, unanswered world full of possibilities.
00:10:11:14 - 00:10:38:26
Lully Jo
And I think sometimes allowing there to be questions or doubts or interpretation in your world allows it to feel very big and vast, like real life. Because how many things in real life do we not have answers for and never will? You know, I think sometimes not answering everything allows your world to feel more real and expansive, you know?
00:10:38:29 - 00:10:58:04
Wade
Yeah, I think that we currently live in an age where, you know, and maybe this isn't just our age. This is the one we're in. It was the only context to have. but we do live in a time when it feels like people crave certainty. And when there's ambiguity and uncertainty, they almost want to wrestle it into something that they can hold on to.
00:10:58:04 - 00:11:18:20
Wade
And this isn't just in in fiction, but it's in our everyday lives as well. So when we get fiction like remake, rebirth or really any of the Final Fantasy series, it feels like, there is this, almost a restlessness of saying, okay, but what does it mean? It's like, that's the point. What do you think it means?
00:11:18:20 - 00:11:35:18
Wade
Let's let's dream about that sort of thing. And I love that idea that sometimes that level of certainty takes away the robustness, the mystery of the world. That beautifully said. Oh my goodness, that was beautifully said. I'm just still in all of that.
00:11:35:24 - 00:12:01:07
Lully Jo
I do want to add something else to that. Sometimes allowing player or audience imagination to take the lead makes it more powerful on an individual basis as well. So like for example, in the original game Sephiroth, they hold back. They don't just show you stuff. Wrath whenever you actually only learn about or see or hear about stuff wrath based on the path he you're following him, you're following him.
00:12:01:07 - 00:12:21:18
Lully Jo
You see him kill the snake. You hear people talk about how great and amazing he is. So then in the player's mind, they hear that and they get to interpret what that means. And so they're thinking, what's the most powerful thing, whatever that is to them, is what they're assuming Sephiroth is. It allows them to build this idea without it being explicitly stated in front of them.
00:12:21:18 - 00:12:40:17
Lully Jo
So the moment that Suffereth then is actually in front of you, you're terrified because you've just built this up. You haven't. You haven't been explicitly told like he's capable of this and this and this. You've just seen a little bit. You get little glimpses and then your imagination completely took over. And that's like, that's a big trick. And horror movies as well.
00:12:40:17 - 00:12:57:02
Lully Jo
Yeah. It's just knowing when to hold back and let your audience scare themselves. And I feel like you can apply that to everything. Like, you don't need to tell us where Jenova came from, because everyone is going to have an answer to that. That feels the most interesting to them. Let them interpret it, let them answer it.
00:12:57:04 - 00:13:16:02
Evan
Nothing is scarier than the prison of my own mind. Your apps. Yeah. Correct? Yeah. Absolutely correct. Daryl, you talked about playing the original Final Fantasy seven or video game, something that you've always enjoyed. Was it something that you picked up at a certain point in life? And what games did you like growing up?
00:13:16:05 - 00:13:38:04
Lully Jo
I my mom, worked second shift, so I was babysat by my family a lot. And one of them was my uncle and his his wife, my aunt. And they used to have me play Ocarina of Time, and that was the first game I ever be on my own. I remember the first time I beat Queen Gomer and I thought I'd beat the game, and then I found out I was maybe six.
00:13:38:04 - 00:14:05:28
Lully Jo
I was like six years old playing this game, and, it was the thing that got me into writing fanfiction. And I would say Ocarina of Time is probably like just such a wonderful game. And it's also a lot of like, less is more there to, and so I think it really lends itself to fanfiction in that way and basically meaning it lends itself to being interpreted in many different ways and meaning something different to different people.
00:14:06:01 - 00:14:22:06
Lully Jo
so I've been playing video games for a while. I played Kingdom Hearts first, and that's the thing that I feel like most people wouldn't know about me is that they order. I got into Final Fantasy seven was Kingdom Hearts, Advent Children and then the original game, so I kind of went a little backwards.
00:14:22:10 - 00:14:25:02
Wade
Wow. Adventure. And then the original game. Okay.
00:14:25:02 - 00:14:32:09
Lully Jo
Yes. Okay. Yes. and anyone that knows me knows I am a big defender of Advent Children. It is so misunderstood.
00:14:32:12 - 00:14:35:24
Wade
So, I definitely want to get into that.
00:14:35:26 - 00:14:36:05
Lully Jo
Yeah.
00:14:36:06 - 00:15:03:16
Wade
For sure. it strikes me that your first entry into, video games really was Zelda Ocarina of Time and Zelda not really known for a robust story. in fact, pretty, pretty straightforward. and yet there have been attempts over the last decade or so to try to create a cohesive storyline timeline, uniting all of the different games and all that kind of stuff taught us a little bit about that.
00:15:03:16 - 00:15:13:29
Wade
And you also mentioned fanfiction. with this, if you could speak a little bit to that, how you were able to fill in some of those gaps that maybe the game did not,
00:15:14:02 - 00:15:36:15
Lully Jo
I mean, I was quite young to be fair, this is like my first foray into fanfic. I must have been like 10 or 11. but the thing is, is like the characters especially link, because link doesn't really have a clear personality or a voice. He's he's the typical voiceless protagonist. you kind of get to project onto him a lot.
00:15:36:15 - 00:16:00:02
Lully Jo
And I think it, it makes for very interesting writing, because then you get to interpret how is this character responding? And some people might interpret him as being a little bit more angsty. Some people might interpret him as being so carefree and kind of like the, the himbo stereotype. I've seen all different kinds of links. So it's I think that's what's really fun about it.
00:16:00:02 - 00:16:15:23
Lully Jo
And the fact that every game is essentially the same story retold over and over again, I think that's also a big indicator that people love their tropes. They love their tropes, and they just want to see it done creatively is really all they want.
00:16:15:25 - 00:16:41:17
Evan
Yeah, that is popular. Well, you talked a lot about, kind of imagination. Enjoying the mystery, the imagination of your mind, your imagination when you were growing up as a child, and how you took the things that you played and experienced and kind of put them into your own words, in your own worlds with the fanfiction. What does imagination look like for you as an adult, and how has it been informed by giving that space to yourself as a kid?
00:16:41:20 - 00:17:10:06
Lully Jo
well, so there's like different ways people think like. And it's really hard to explain that because our thoughts are our thoughts and you can't really like record them in an effective way. So for me, even though I can like, see and see things and hear things, I always say that my mind is more about emotions. Like when my when it comes to my dreams, I mostly remember the way I felt in them versus the things I saw or the things I heard.
00:17:10:13 - 00:17:36:25
Lully Jo
And I feel the same way with just everyday thoughts, like it's more about how it makes me feel. And, and as someone who's I do have a lot of trauma and stuff, and so I sit with emotions a lot. And art is a is an expression of emotions and it's an expression of reality. I always say that art is a mirror that reflects back to us our experiences.
00:17:36:28 - 00:18:08:28
Lully Jo
It's, we tell stories to make sense of the world. And so I think with my imagination as an adult, it's a lot of me taking all of my experiences, the experiences I hear from others as well, and trying to make sense of it and telling it in a story that feels satisfying and feels like, like comforting, like even even bittersweet endings are somehow comforting because you're you're telling your story and making it valid, and the validity is enough.
00:18:08:28 - 00:18:19:08
Lully Jo
Sometimes that's all you need is for someone to say like, this is valid, this is important. And to have it written and then to have it seen, I think is so meaningful and so beautiful.
00:18:19:10 - 00:18:24:06
Evan
That is a really neat way to kind of process. Yeah.
00:18:24:09 - 00:18:37:19
Wade
What are some of the stories that have helped you make Meaning of Things? And it could be Final Fantasy. It could be movies. music even. how have you found meaning in some of the stories that you've heard?
00:18:37:21 - 00:19:07:03
Lully Jo
Well, what, Final Fantasy seven has been my all time favorite story since I played it. it's very important to me. Cloud in particular is extremely important to me, and I think that would surprise some people, because a lot of people think that I'm a big Erith fan girl, and I am, but I've always related to cloud more and a lot of that has to do with how he was depicted in Advent Children.
00:19:07:06 - 00:19:31:10
Lully Jo
I was a very depressed, anxious teenager and I didn't know that I a lot of people don't know that in the 90s, in the 2000, mental health was way more stigmatized and way more misunderstood. And I didn't even know I had depression. I knew it was a thing that existed, but I thought, I'm not sad enough to be depressed or I'm not this enough.
00:19:31:10 - 00:19:54:21
Lully Jo
Like in my mind, it had to look a certain way. I just knew that I was very not okay, I was not okay. And, and then watching Advent Children and seeing I'm going to get emotional talk about this, seeing a character, he's the protagonist in his story, and he is struggling with depression and PTSD and anxiety.
00:19:54:21 - 00:20:17:19
Lully Jo
And even if I didn't have the words for it at the time, looking at that and seeing this character struggle with that, struggle openly with it, and then he still is surrounded by people who love him, and he still gets to be the good guy at the end, like he's still the hero. That was so meaningful to me because I had never seen that before.
00:20:17:22 - 00:20:43:23
Lully Jo
I had never seen a character who is sad like me, or anxious or troubled the way that I was still get to be the hero and still get to be the protagonist. And not just be the the tragedy that happens with a sub character or something like it's his story and he still comes out just as important and lovable and heroic.
00:20:43:23 - 00:21:06:15
Lully Jo
And that meant everything to a 14 year old like me. So I that's part of why I defend advent Children so hard is because I got made fun of for being an emo kid. They they made fun of us. They laughed at us. And when they sat there and the way they talk about cloud back then or that movie, I just it felt like they were saying it to me.
00:21:06:18 - 00:21:27:15
Lully Jo
So I'm a big defender. Yes. And I think that's why I think seven is so important is because it is so human in so many different ways, with all these different characters of different backgrounds, and they're all fighting for for a different reason, but for the same goal. And that's just for peace and protection and the right to live.
00:21:27:15 - 00:21:32:02
Lully Jo
And I think it's just so beautiful and so important.
00:21:32:05 - 00:21:53:00
Evan
But thank you for sharing that. What do you think it is about the stories and having things that are relatable, that people can see, that maybe they don't experience in their everyday life, but you can see it in a story that you read, or a show that you watch, or a game that you play that gives us the ability to kind of process some of those things that we're dealing with.
00:21:53:00 - 00:22:08:05
Evan
And you use the phrase kind of sitting in your emotions. I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about what your journey was to arrive at the conclusion that what you needed to do was sit in them, and as opposed to just letting them wash over you or have control or whatever it is, because it seems like a very intentional phrasing.
00:22:08:05 - 00:22:12:04
Evan
So I'm curious what that means to you.
00:22:12:06 - 00:22:37:11
Lully Jo
so sitting as far as sitting in your emotions, this is it's like something I've learned in therapy. and it's, it's not so much as sitting in your emotions as much as, like sitting with them alongside them, not ruminating, but like acceptance, like it's someone once described it, I don't remember who, but they described it as let your emotions hit you like a wave, and then once it washes away, let it go.
00:22:37:13 - 00:22:55:02
Lully Jo
You know, it's like you're standing in like a wave pool and it's going to hit you and it's going to be a lot, but it's going to go away. and I used to ruminate a lot. I used to spiral a lot. You see kind of the similar things like with Cloud in Advent Children, the way he isolates it.
00:22:55:05 - 00:23:18:13
Lully Jo
and that's unhelpful. That's that's an unhealthy version of feeling your emotions. It's ruminating, sitting with them to the point that you are now no longer taking care of yourself. And now the emotions are no longer an experience defining yourself by them. And emotion should always just be there. An experience. It's something you're experiencing. It's not indicative of who you are.
00:23:18:13 - 00:23:58:20
Lully Jo
It's not your identity. So media being able to allow us to process a lot of media, it allows us to project onto it. The point is to see similar situations or characters, what have you, and it kind of allows us to understand it from a safe place and I think that's why you get some people who love horror, for example, because it's, it's a way for them to experience a very scary thing in a safe way so they can deal with those feelings or, you know, whatever it is, it's but it's all about consent and it's, you know, the safety of that.
00:23:58:22 - 00:24:26:16
Lully Jo
And yeah, I think I also think, what's that saying? Like, you can't see a forest for the trees. Sometimes you need help. You need to see something portrayed or expressed to you outside of you. And then you can see it and you're like, oh, that's like me. And then it helps you make sense of something, because sometimes when you're sitting in it, you can't put words to it, and then someone else puts words to it and you're like, that makes so much sense.
00:24:26:18 - 00:24:56:21
Wade
This is one of the most interesting things about doing this series, because when we ask about what's the impact of story and specifically, what do you take from Final Fantasy seven? We get these amazing stories about how people see their own brokenness in cloud. They see, cloud, psyche, somehow in their own experience and story. And so thank you for, for saying that, because this is, this is such an interesting thing.
00:24:56:28 - 00:25:24:23
Wade
Ostensibly, Final Fantasy seven is, is about saving the world. And yet I think, we're not quite to rebirth yet in this conversation, but I think that there's something amazing that happens toward the end of the game rebirth, where Aerith says this is about saving the planet and you and you've got to have both of those things. I think it's not enough for Final Fantasy seven to just be about saving the world, but it is about saving the protagonist to a degree.
00:25:24:26 - 00:25:38:10
Wade
in all of the brokenness and all of that kind of stuff, I wonder, as a 14 year old, you see yourself in this, did you know what to do with it?
00:25:38:13 - 00:26:02:26
Lully Jo
I don't really know. I just I knew that I related to cloud and seeing that he was successful in the end, like it, it gave me a lot of comfort. And I think that was the only thing I really knew. I knew that this is a character that means something to me. And I love this character. And I became so attached to him because I kind of processed a lot of my own feelings through him.
00:26:02:26 - 00:26:28:03
Lully Jo
And that continues kind of to this day, a little bit. I mean, I would say I've now leveled up, which is a weird way to put it. but I, I no longer I don't relate to cloud as hard like I relate to him in terms of like that used to be me like that was who I was now, and like, so it's like you can love him as, like, an old version of yourself.
00:26:28:06 - 00:26:29:10
Wade
I love that, yeah.
00:26:29:10 - 00:26:52:13
Lully Jo
And now I actually do think I'm a little bit more like Aerith. And not to say she's not without her, you know, her own traumas and her own hiccups, but she's got a lot more of that positivity and optimism and courage. Not say Cloud's not courageous, but I think you get what I'm saying here. And so I feel like I've, I always said clouds who I relate to, it's who I want to be.
00:26:52:13 - 00:26:54:11
Lully Jo
And I feel like I finally achieved that.
00:26:54:11 - 00:27:14:22
Wade
So I feel that in a lot of different ways. and you're even you retelling and recounting your story of seven conjures up some things in me. I'll tell you a quick story. Okay. This is this is about you. But like I you've struck something with me. I played soccer when I was in middle school. Final fantasy seven came out, and I'm playing through this game.
00:27:14:22 - 00:27:40:13
Wade
I was never very good at soccer. This is important. Okay. I wasn't a good defender. I wasn't a good shooter, but I was a good runner. So I would pass the ball to the people that could do soccer, and run and get it. So anyway, I remember I, I'd been playing through this game, Final Fantasy seven, throughout the soccer season, and every time I wanted to be like this heroic sort of soccer player and I would always imagine, like, what would cloud do in this moment?
00:27:40:16 - 00:28:02:02
Wade
And at the end of that game, I will never forget it. I get to the big revelation where cloud is like pretending that he's Zach and like, he's just like, got all these memories and stuff. And he says, I was kind of this master of my own illusionary world. I wasn't good enough. I wasn't any of these things.
00:28:02:05 - 00:28:32:14
Wade
But I'm I'm now kind of living into myself at this point. I save the game and I go play a soccer game immediately after that. And like, I am freed in this moment to go and like, just be me. I and I think I like in my recollection, I may not have been the best player out there, but that was the best game that I personally played because I felt that same sense of like, hey, it's okay that I'm not the best or the strongest or whatever it is, and it's fun to go back and look at that story.
00:28:32:14 - 00:28:44:00
Wade
Final Fantasy seven, and remember that version of myself. now, I probably would imagine myself a little bit closer to Zach just because of the optimism, the excitement stuff. But that wasn't me at 13, you know?
00:28:44:02 - 00:28:44:22
Lully Jo
Yeah.
00:28:44:24 - 00:29:04:24
Wade
You mentioned Aerith. she's very special to you. Why what why what what caused that shift? Moving from your story and identifying with cloud into saying, you know what, Aerith is where my heart really lies now,
00:29:04:26 - 00:29:33:05
Lully Jo
Even though cloud is still my favorite character of all time, Aerith is so deeply important to me. I think because of the way she's not only so supportive of people around her, but like, I don't know, she's always so optimistic in the face of everything that's really hard, and that comes with a lot of its own baggage. but I just I always wanted to be the kind of person that always said, no matter how difficult things are, we we can keep going.
00:29:33:05 - 00:29:59:03
Lully Jo
We can keep trying. Like, you know what? What did she say in temple of the ancients? Like, one day we'll look back on all this and laugh. And yeah, she she manages to make even the most horrible moments something to. She reminds herself it will pass. This too shall pass. And I really needed that, because I would get so caught up in like, this is the worst moment of my life and how can it ever get better?
00:29:59:03 - 00:30:14:27
Lully Jo
And sometimes it's good to be like, yeah, it hurts right now and it's okay that it hurts, but it won't hurt. Someday in the future, you'll get over it. Or this. It'll pass and it'll just be a memory, and that's fine. And I really needed that. And I really try to live like that now.
00:30:15:00 - 00:30:15:29
Wade
It's beautiful.
00:30:16:01 - 00:30:32:24
Evan
Is there a time in your life that you can point to? You know, after kind of you were 14, where maybe there was an experience that you had, you kind of had a change of scenery, that kind of opened your eyes and gave you kind of a different perspective on things. And for some people it's like travel.
00:30:32:24 - 00:30:45:28
Evan
For others, it's like going off to school or, you know, getting out of the house. Like, was there other things in your life that you've experienced that impacted you in that way, that kind of helped you understand those things and really kind of change as a person?
00:30:46:00 - 00:31:09:10
Lully Jo
I mean, I'm trying to think so, so much of my life. It's like it all starts to blend together because again, it's more about how things make me feel versus like the concrete memory of what happened. But, I mean, I moved out of my house overnight, like my friends came over and they were like, hey, we can help you get a job, get a car, like, drive all these things.
00:31:09:10 - 00:31:26:10
Lully Jo
I was like 18, 19 years old at the time. I didn't know how to drive. I had never had a job and I was kind of always treated as like the person who's, like, incompetent. She can't do anything for herself. And so I was like, well, this is my opportunity. I'm going to take it. So I put all my stuff in my friend's, trunk.
00:31:26:10 - 00:32:00:05
Lully Jo
And I moved in with her and never looked back. And while I was out in, quote unquote, the real world and I, I wasn't in school anymore. And I worked this crappy job at McDonald's, and I hated it. And I just realized that I really wanted to go back into learning. And so through all of these moments, taking my independence, it it was the first time in my life I realized, like, I am actually entirely capable of so much, and I'm the one who's been holding myself back.
00:32:00:05 - 00:32:14:05
Lully Jo
I've been I've been quitting before. I start because I say, well, I, I won't be good at it, so I shouldn't even try. I did that so often growing up. And then one day I was like, what happened? What would happen if I just said, I'm not giving up, I'm just going to try and see where I go.
00:32:14:11 - 00:32:35:28
Lully Jo
And that attitude led me to teaching myself Korean like that. That was something I did. I figured out how to learn online. I didn't take classes. I taught myself Korean for like 2 or 3 years. Ended up when I transferred to university. I tested into the 300 level class, but I think I was too nervous.
00:32:36:00 - 00:32:38:00
Evan
So cool. That's awesome.
00:32:38:06 - 00:32:53:12
Lully Jo
Thank you. I was still I still didn't know which way. I held myself back, though, because I had never taken like, I was better at my reading and writing than my speaking. And so I was like, can I just take the 200 level class so that I can have practice? I just didn't want to have to learn Hangul again.
00:32:53:16 - 00:33:23:08
Lully Jo
I was like, please don't put me in 100. so I did that and then I studied abroad. I got into the critical language scholarship. I did so many cool things, like things that I never imagined I could have done, all because I decided to not give up on myself. And so I guess you could say, like, that's really what led me to, like, flipping from being this character who's so hard on on herself, like, you know, like cloud to being more like, it's like it'll be hard, but it'll be worth it.
00:33:23:11 - 00:33:31:07
Lully Jo
And it was and this is that's how I got to where I am now. It's because I made the decision to just try and see where it took me.
00:33:31:09 - 00:33:53:24
Evan
The archetypes there, and the ability to kind of use those to memorialize what that train like transition was and how you felt at the time, and be able to really encapsulate it is a really cool way to be able to share the parts of the story that you like that others can relate to. But it's amazing how these stories create these kind of third party spaces to define ourselves.
00:33:53:24 - 00:34:09:28
Evan
Like, well, what do you like? Well, rather than describing, I'm kind of like this or I'm kind of like this, you could say, have you seen Advent Children? Have you seen this? I really like the way he reacts with this. And he struggles, but he still moves forward. And he has he supported. And I think that's how I am in life.
00:34:10:00 - 00:34:21:08
Evan
and then people can relate to that. And then you can have conversations about that third party space. That's really cool and we appreciate you sharing it. We need to know a little bit about how it was like to study abroad, though, I think I mean, come on.
00:34:21:11 - 00:34:22:11
Wade
Yeah. Seriously.
00:34:22:11 - 00:34:50:23
Lully Jo
Yeah. That studying abroad in Korea, they have a very robust public transportation system. And so again, I had my license at the time, but I didn't have a car. And I have a lot of driving anxiety for multiple reasons. but I had so much independence in Korea. Granted, I was a foreign exchange student who was living off of like, other student student loans and stuff, and being a obviously white American in Korea.
00:34:50:23 - 00:35:04:25
Lully Jo
There was some privileges there as well, but it was probably the greatest experience I got to finally have, like the dorm life experience, because I didn't get that at university being a transfer student. So I got to stay in a dorm and I met girls from all over,
00:35:04:25 - 00:35:15:11
Wade
2020, you said that you moved into content creation and, you started kind of wanting to react and stuff like that.
00:35:15:13 - 00:35:32:09
Wade
I wonder if you could share with us briefly kind of how you started creating content and how, how you developed, you know, friendships, relationships and, and such with viewers and, and stuff. Just tell us the origination story of that.
00:35:32:12 - 00:35:51:23
Lully Jo
Yeah. So I actually started on a laptop. I didn't have two screens. I had a laptop and a Twitch channel and a dream and, and I, I literally so I had it was a tiny little gaming laptop and I played all my games in windowed mode so I could see the chat. I wasn't even using my phone for a chat.
00:35:51:27 - 00:36:17:16
Lully Jo
I was literally looking at this teeny tiny screen with this really crappy webcam. Like I started from the bottom. I and that's I try to tell people that all the time that you do not need to invest all this expensive stuff, like let yourself start with all of the the cheap, crappy stuff you have and build up. and I actually started streaming with Final Fantasy nine because that's that used to be my second favorite.
00:36:17:16 - 00:36:39:29
Lully Jo
Now, Final Fantasy 14 is my second favorite fantasy, but I was streaming Final Fantasy nine and actually eyes on B, she she watched me and she kind of ended up taking me under her wing. and I developed a lot of friendships through her. And it's interesting, like, I was always just very honest about my opinions and my feelings.
00:36:39:29 - 00:37:01:12
Lully Jo
I let myself be cringe. I let myself go on tangents, and whoever was there for that was there for that. And then B coming in and then other friends of hers, they kind of helped me and boosted me up. And we all had these conversations. So very pro community. It's all about being in community with people. If you try to do it in isolation, it's not going to work.
00:37:01:15 - 00:37:20:22
Lully Jo
And I feel the same way about Cloud and Sephora and I have a whole rant. I can go on there. but yeah, community was very important. And so I started off just playing, doing a lot of first plays. I ended up doing a first play of what was it, Final Fantasy ten, which had a lot of great memories.
00:37:20:22 - 00:37:41:12
Lully Jo
Final fantasy eight, the first time I played that, that is probably the best experience of a video game I've ever streamed. Not my favorite, but the crowd and the laughs, like the experience itself just meant so much to me. And that's another reason I. I will always say a game does not have to be a masterpiece for it to be a memorable piece of art.
00:37:41:14 - 00:38:01:11
Lully Jo
So that was a great experience for me. And the other thing is, I love watching video essays. So the whole time and like I've said, art games are interactive art and I was like, I want to talk about this. So then I started doing like YouTube here and there, and that's how I started my Final Fantasy Lore Deep Dive series.
00:38:01:11 - 00:38:21:23
Lully Jo
It's only got two episodes out right now, but, I started talking about Sephiroth as a ward of Shinra, like he technically was raised as a ward of the state, which I don't feel like people truly talk about in detail enough. The fact that, like he lived, he was raised by the state. That's crazy. That's wild and so traumatic.
00:38:21:26 - 00:38:29:20
Wade
And then why do you think that's important? Like I for give us a teaser of that particular video or all of our audience, please.
00:38:29:22 - 00:39:00:14
Lully Jo
So kind of alluding also to the fact that, like, community is so important in helping people deal with their trauma. I mean, Sephiroth was abused at conception, like the very creation of him was done under abusive and horrible circumstances, so he never stood a chance. And being raised as a ward of the state, being raised in this clinical environment where you don't have parents like him, I.
00:39:00:16 - 00:39:27:15
Lully Jo
I do watch a lot of like adoptee TikTok and like the stories they talk about being raised in the system. It does something to you. It's and I think that's an important thing to keep in mind that Suffereth wouldn't have reached. He would have reached different milestones in different ways. I and that's why I always feel like the sufferer that's really socially awkward and aloof and kind of weird like that is truly what would happen.
00:39:27:15 - 00:39:48:00
Lully Jo
He probably wouldn't develop socially. He would have developed physically, obviously, because they were literally raising him to be a weapon of mass destruction. he's I in fact, one of the videos I want to work on is talking about how the first soldier project is basically a reflection of the Manhattan Project. So.
00:39:48:02 - 00:39:50:09
Wade
Teaser. wow.
00:39:50:12 - 00:40:18:13
Lully Jo
But yeah, so, so for us, being aware of the state that is so important and integral to understanding his motivations, how he goes from being kind of this, like very powerful, but just kind of awkward guy to having a total God complex. I mean, he didn't have a chance. He didn't have a support network even even with Angel and Genesis, if you wanted to say they were his friends, they were more enablers and kind of also going through their own trauma.
00:40:18:13 - 00:40:38:28
Lully Jo
They weren't exactly a great supportive influence. Like Warehouse Cloud, he's surrounded by this found family who loves him and pulls him out of the dark. So I always say Cloud and Sephiroth are two sides of the same coin. One has a support network and one doesn't. like Sephiroth is what cloud could have turned into.
00:40:39:01 - 00:40:42:23
Wade
And it seems that that's what several of the once cloud turned into.
00:40:42:26 - 00:40:43:19
Lully Jo
Yeah.
00:40:43:22 - 00:40:57:17
Wade
So that's a really interesting way of, of saying it, that Zephyr off as a ward of the state and almost he's trying to to make cloud his own ward, kind of making it into his own sort of image. There. That's interesting stuff.
00:40:57:19 - 00:41:00:18
Evan
So for us does seem like he wants company, doesn't he?
00:41:00:20 - 00:41:04:14
Lully Jo
Yeah. He seems very lonely to me.
00:41:04:16 - 00:41:32:11
Wade
I think that that's part of the tragedy of Sephiroth. Right. when you when you don't have an equal, a true equal a, you are immediately lonely. And I think that that's what is compelling to him in some ways about cloud. during the, the events of FF7. Right. versus, you know, the people an incident because you don't really know cloud as anything during that point.
00:41:32:11 - 00:41:46:03
Evan
Okay, everybody, it's that time in the episode where we get to know each other a little bit better. It's time for that mini game, stretch break. And you know what that means. It's time to hit that theme music. Three. Two. One. Bump bump bump.
00:41:46:05 - 00:41:50:01
Wade
Up bump bump bump bump bump. Bada.
00:41:50:03 - 00:41:53:00
Evan
Oh, somebody wanted his own solo.
00:41:53:02 - 00:41:53:17
Wade
I did, I.
00:41:53:17 - 00:41:54:18
Evan
Went, oh I.
00:41:54:18 - 00:41:55:20
Wade
Made my own ending.
00:41:55:22 - 00:42:10:07
Evan
What is this. Or something. All right, everybody, we have the bingo wheel of vulnerability here. Numbers one through 50. That's going to choose our own. Our question that we have from a new to mini game. Wait, do you want to explain.
00:42:10:10 - 00:42:23:27
Wade
A new mini game? Today's new mini game is from Rory's story cubes. let your imagination roll wild. We got a series of dice with pictures on them. Then we're going to tell you a true story based on whatever picture it lands on.
00:42:24:00 - 00:42:32:22
Evan
It's perfect. So lovely. Joe, as our guest, you are going to get to. Yes. The number one through 51st. And you're also going to get someone to stop rolling the wheel. So what number would you like?
00:42:32:25 - 00:42:34:28
Lully Jo
I'm going to go eight because that's my favorite organization.
00:42:34:28 - 00:42:40:12
Evan
13 member okay. Eight. Wait.
00:42:40:14 - 00:42:41:05
Wade
27.
00:42:41:12 - 00:42:46:18
Evan
I'm going to go with 13 because it's my favorite organization. Eight member. All right.
00:42:46:20 - 00:42:51:02
Lully Jo
I know I'm just laughing because those are like literally all three of my favorite numbers.
00:42:51:04 - 00:42:51:26
Evan
What's it.
00:42:52:03 - 00:42:53:06
Lully Jo
Yeah. That's crazy.
00:42:53:06 - 00:42:56:11
Evan
What did you guys already? I wasn't paying attention. I was thinking about my joke.
00:42:56:17 - 00:42:57:20
Wade
I said 27.
00:42:57:20 - 00:43:05:06
Evan
Okay, so 27, eight, 13. Here we go. All right, well, you got to tell me when.
00:43:05:08 - 00:43:28:11
Evan
When? Okay. It is a red one. we had a tragic. No bingo. Real ball accident. They were flying across my room, and I had to find it. Oh, my gosh, you were going to be so mad. Wait 20 600. We were. We've been one off a couple times. We've now no one has ever gotten it. We've never gotten it.
00:43:28:11 - 00:43:30:29
Evan
A guest has never gotten it. It is.
00:43:31:01 - 00:43:55:26
Wade
Okay. So I'm counting out and we are going to we have this die based on numbers. So I'm just because I am all about fairness and truth here. Look at all the pictures. We've got everything from a frowny face to a key, a fountain, a shooting star. Who knows what it's going to be. Okay, so I'm going to roll and then whatever it lands on, that's the the the topic.
00:43:55:28 - 00:44:14:10
Wade
Okay. It is a shooting star. Or however you might interpret that to be. So the the goal is we have to tell a true story about this picture, a shooting star or something loosely to.
00:44:14:10 - 00:44:15:11
Evan
Worry.
00:44:15:13 - 00:44:16:19
Wade
About a story.
00:44:16:22 - 00:44:27:15
Evan
Or shooting. So this is new. So I'm going to think in kind of style for all of us. Well we try and decide what starts. Oh yeah I'll tell a.
00:44:27:15 - 00:44:48:04
Wade
Story first since I've used these before, I probably have like a stockpile of all this stuff. Okay. So okay, here's the thing. When I was in college, I, I hate science, not like an anti-science sort of person, but, like, I'm not good at science. So I was like, I'm not taking biology. I'm not taking physics. I'm not taking chemistry.
00:44:48:06 - 00:45:14:22
Wade
I'm going to take astronomy. Okay? It seemed fun. It seemed easier. The labs were going to be in the middle of a field, and we were going to look up through telescopes. and so we did that problem was my professor was like a grant earning NASA scientist. Okay. So he brought in biology, chemistry and physics on a universal galactic level.
00:45:14:22 - 00:45:30:27
Wade
And it was the hardest class ever in my life. It was me and the basketball team and baseball team all in a corner with all of these, like, real scientists in there. And, it was one of the hardest things in the world. But I look at shooting stars differently now because of that class.
00:45:31:00 - 00:45:55:14
Lully Jo
I took astronomy in, in my, in my college years, too, because I love the stars and I love astronomy. Actually, you could have tutored me. Oh, no, not like that. I remember the only reason I'm not like that. I never thought that I could be a NASA person is because I was like, oh, I hate math. that was not me, but I, I did take a course in university.
00:45:55:14 - 00:46:00:15
Lully Jo
I can't remember the name of it, but basically it was about studying aliens and it uses.
00:46:00:18 - 00:46:02:19
Evan
You know, biology.
00:46:02:21 - 00:46:11:22
Lully Jo
I don't remember how they what they called it. Like I said, it was, it had like this long name. it was a one of 100 level class. It wasn't anything super involved, but entry.
00:46:11:22 - 00:46:13:13
Wade
Level for aliens. Wow.
00:46:13:13 - 00:46:30:03
Lully Jo
Yeah. It was it was interesting because it wasn't what you would think it was. He basically was like, how do we define life? Like, what does it mean for something to be living because you can't like, how do you look for life on other planets? Is it carbon based life like, does it have to have a heart? Does it have to have a brain?
00:46:30:03 - 00:46:34:04
Lully Jo
Because viruses are living, but they don't have any of those things. Right.
00:46:34:04 - 00:46:34:27
Wade
Really interesting.
00:46:34:27 - 00:46:47:25
Lully Jo
So yeah, it was very interesting the way he basically so much of it was philosophizing about how do we define these things, what does it mean to look for life on other planets? It was so good, I loved it.
00:46:47:27 - 00:46:50:04
Wade
And so you're a scholar on Genova is what I'm here.
00:46:50:05 - 00:46:50:19
Evan
Oh, yes.
00:46:50:24 - 00:46:57:25
Lully Jo
Yes, absolutely. I have my degree with General University. I don't.
00:46:57:27 - 00:47:02:17
Evan
Is said you just pay the money and you mail it in and that's generous like it's for the money.
00:47:02:19 - 00:47:05:02
Lully Jo
Yeah. So take.
00:47:05:02 - 00:47:12:04
Evan
It. so for me, I guess I'll, it's because that was yours. Right. But you also that you took a class or you have another generally.
00:47:12:04 - 00:47:20:05
Lully Jo
I mean, I as far as shooting stars, I have one that's more direct, but it's related to a story I've been writing my whole life.
00:47:20:10 - 00:47:23:23
Evan
I would let's see that one that I would love to hear. If you if you. Let's do that.
00:47:23:23 - 00:47:43:16
Lully Jo
Sharing. I have a story that I've, I've had these characters in my heart since I was a teenager. And the I mean, it's evolved a lot as I've gotten older and smarter and better at writing stories. and the last year I've really been getting really into it, but it it's an alien contact coming of age story.
00:47:43:19 - 00:47:59:14
Lully Jo
And the girl character, the alien girl who introduces us to all this, she actually comes in like a shooting star or, I guess, closer to a meteor, and lands in front of the main character. And it's it's going to be called Echo Nux. Okay.
00:47:59:16 - 00:48:02:15
Wade
That's cool. How did you get to that title? Just curious.
00:48:02:17 - 00:48:23:19
Lully Jo
It used to be called, interstellar and that is a very famous IP. Now, so that's not going to work that I did that one. I like I like the word echo. I mean, the, the main character is a musician. He's in a like a garage band with his buddies. And I decided that I wanted the title of the series to be after the name of their band.
00:48:23:21 - 00:48:34:20
Lully Jo
So their band is called Echo now. And yeah, night night time. Like the echoing of the night, the echoing of stars in the sky. I guess you could say it. Well, I love that.
00:48:34:22 - 00:48:35:25
Wade
That's awesome.
00:48:35:27 - 00:49:15:00
Evan
That is really cool. Even, mine, it made me think of. Do you ever watch NBC back in the day? And they would have that star that would go across the screen, and it would be like a fun factoid. And I would say, the more you know. So I just I just thought back to all the times that I was sitting there with, like, my little brother or watching TV with my family, and that just came across the screen, and so now in conversation, at times, whenever we give like a random factoid that's maybe out of context or just out of nowhere, like when somebody will just go the more you know, and then
00:49:15:00 - 00:49:32:05
Evan
we just move on like nothing happened, like, so we use that star to kind of memorialize our lives. So, listener, what is it for you? What does the shooting Star make you think of? How is it going for you this week? Shoot for the stars. Hang in there. You're going to make it. And whenever there's. We didn't stretch in our mini games stretch, break.
00:49:32:05 - 00:49:36:15
Evan
So everybody let's get a little stretch in.
00:49:36:17 - 00:49:48:00
Wade
oh my gosh. My shoulder popped. Oh no. It's still enjoying. Okay. that would have been an amazing stretch break if I had dislocated my.
00:49:48:03 - 00:49:55:06
Evan
During the mini game. Oh my gosh. Oh no. Oh, feels good though. Your shoulders been good though since you had it fixed, right?
00:49:55:10 - 00:49:59:27
Wade
It has been good. That's a that's a story for another time. My, shoulder surgery.
00:50:00:03 - 00:50:03:24
Evan
No more front squats. Mr. Wade. All right.
00:50:03:26 - 00:50:05:10
Wade
Thank you. Okay.
00:50:05:12 - 00:50:07:15
Evan
And back to the episode.
00:50:07:15 - 00:50:22:29
Wade
so here's the big question. You've beaten remake, you've beaten rebirth. Even though it's been some months now, taught us a little bit about your immediate impressions and where you sit now with this remake, rebirth and trilogy.
00:50:23:02 - 00:50:48:18
Lully Jo
Okay. So I'm just going to lay it out there. Okay. Back before the remake trilogy ever even came out, everyone that was like I want them to remaster it, I want them to do a remake. I was like, not me, I don't want yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I, I have my opinions about the compilation. I mean, we know I love Advent Children, but I have opinions about the compilation.
00:50:48:20 - 00:51:15:08
Lully Jo
And so in my opinion, I didn't really trust them to do a remake in a way that felt, but it honored what I loved so much about the original game. but then they announced it and I was like, well, there ain't no getting off of this train we're on. So I have hit full acceptance mode. The remake's not ever really going to be what I wish it was.
00:51:15:08 - 00:51:37:13
Lully Jo
So I'm here for the ride and I'm going to have a good time. So I don't necessarily interact with the remake trilogy the same way I interact with the original game. However, I still think there are so many beautiful, interesting moments, even if I think it's telling a different story. I think it's telling a different story with the same backdrop, if that makes sense.
00:51:37:15 - 00:51:38:20
Wade
What? What do you mean by that?
00:51:38:25 - 00:52:10:14
Lully Jo
Say more so, in my opinion, the original game is definitely about life in particular, and to me, life. It goes hand in hand with love. And that's love of, the planet, love of friends and family, people and love of the self. It does not perfect in, in my opinion, and it's very much grounded in reality, whereas remake trilogy feels a lot more like it's it's more concerned with the death side.
00:52:11:09 - 00:52:34:00
Lully Jo
You know what I mean? Like, the original game is very concerned with the life and what it means to live and lose, and then remake feels like it's way more concerned with what does death and the afterlife mean? Like, what does this actually mean? And also, we got a little bit of space time in there, which is very, very fun to say the least, is very fun.
00:52:34:02 - 00:52:43:00
Lully Jo
so I, I don't know that the ending is going to be quite the same. And I'm also very much of the opinion this is the sequel.
00:52:43:03 - 00:52:45:00
Wade
Okay.
00:52:45:02 - 00:52:49:28
Lully Jo
and I think it already links up to Advent Children as a result of that. So, so.
00:52:50:05 - 00:52:53:00
Wade
Can you explain that for us and for our audience?
00:52:53:26 - 00:53:00:19
Wade
So I think that it's a sequel. And how does it link up to Advent Children? explain it to us as though we're we're kindergartners.
00:53:00:22 - 00:53:01:24
Lully Jo
Okay, okay.
00:53:01:25 - 00:53:04:06
Evan
Yeah. Pretend that we're kindergarten.
00:53:04:08 - 00:53:05:03
Lully Jo
Yeah.
00:53:05:05 - 00:53:10:01
Wade
That Evan specifically is a kindergarten, so.
00:53:10:05 - 00:53:12:12
Evan
And he may snap.
00:53:12:15 - 00:53:28:07
Lully Jo
I know that because we have the. What did they call that at the end of the remake? There was a name for it, and I can't remember what they singularity. The singularity. Yeah. So we had that moment and it kind of changed what fate could be.
00:53:29:18 - 00:53:45:25
Lully Jo
and a lot of people think like, oh the, the trajectory of the story is that it's just going to end up being the exact same. Like we're going to find out that like Aerith actually died. They're just putting in all these red herrings is a word that gets thrown around a lot. Yeah. they're just trying to fool us.
00:53:45:25 - 00:54:19:14
Lully Jo
And in my opinion, we know that Aerith and Suffereth know things they shouldn't know. Even cloud starts to know things he shouldn't know. he's like having flashes of the future or a possible future. And for people who know anything about Japanese or who just, like, read into it, they'll know that there's like, what is it confirmed for different for us and remake trilogy based on his pronouns because in Japanese they he uses different pronouns to indicate a different point in time.
00:54:19:18 - 00:54:27:20
Lully Jo
You lose that in the English translation because we just can't really mimic that in English. So we know that there's multiple separates.
00:54:27:20 - 00:54:47:07
Wade
And can you explain that? because I have heard that tossed around a lot. I don't speak Japanese. and I'm trusting other people for that. So what is the significance of there being, multiple Sephiroth and how is that even possible in your, your, imagination?
00:54:47:10 - 00:55:10:08
Lully Jo
So the multiple separates we have, I don't know all of them, but I'll just list a couple of them that we have the original timeline stuff. Right? The one that we actually saw in the original game, and he's showing up in moments as he would have in the original game. Then we have what I think they've dubbed the Advent Children's of Wrath, which is the one we deal with in the movie, and he shows up.
00:55:10:08 - 00:55:30:03
Lully Jo
I believe he's the one going around using order, for his pronoun. and I think there's another one who they argue is the suffereth from ever crisis, which I think is the suffereth before the Jenova influence.
00:55:30:05 - 00:55:34:23
Wade
Yeah. And so this Sephiroth, if you played ever crisis.
00:55:34:25 - 00:55:38:28
Lully Jo
I started it, but I, I've not really a mobile person, so I'm not either.
00:55:38:28 - 00:55:59:13
Wade
I want a lot of the cutscenes and stuff, but it. And correct me if I'm wrong. but it appears that the ever crisis Sephiroth is a little bit more of a sympathetic Jenova influence. who wants to save everyone, right? Like he's trying to save people, and then he becomes corrupted. And this is a whole new sort of thing.
00:55:59:13 - 00:56:02:21
Wade
So, is that accurate in your.
00:56:02:23 - 00:56:07:20
Lully Jo
In my experience, thinking, okay, yeah, I might need corrected too, I don't know. Yeah.
00:56:07:23 - 00:56:13:28
Wade
They'll let us know in the comments that, yeah. So so okay, we've got those three and maybe a fourth.
00:56:14:01 - 00:56:18:22
Lully Jo
Yeah. I can't remember exactly all of them. I feel like they confirmed four, but I could be wrong.
00:56:18:23 - 00:56:22:12
Evan
Which one's your favorite?
00:56:22:15 - 00:56:28:08
Lully Jo
Oh, I don't even know. To be honest, I couldn't tell you. They're they're all so unique and interesting.
00:56:28:10 - 00:56:42:14
Wade
Yeah. so why why would that be important in, especially in understanding this game as maybe a sequel to the original, game? Why would that be important for us to think about.
00:56:42:17 - 00:57:04:24
Lully Jo
The fact that we have multiple sets for us? I find that's really important because that implies there is a split in the timeline somewhere. There's there's a Sephiroth who's here who should not be here. And I feel like something about like, something being where it shouldn't be gets alluded to very often. I mean, we have the whispers are like the big obvious one.
00:57:05:01 - 00:57:25:21
Lully Jo
But in rebirth, when Suffereth explains to cloud about all the multiple worlds, he he sees that cloud has the Holy Materia. In the original game, he doesn't have the Holy Materia in his hands. Aerith still has it, right? So the fact that he has it, they're in separate says that shouldn't be here. Bad form. He's basically telling him you're bad at time travel.
00:57:25:21 - 00:57:28:22
Lully Jo
You're doing something wrong. You shouldn't have that here, right?
00:57:28:23 - 00:57:28:29
Wade
Right.
00:57:29:02 - 00:57:47:09
Lully Jo
So I and I feel like I feel like the game has had so many moments where it's pretty much beating us over the head. Like this is an alternate timeline, alternate universe, or it's a split, however you want to call it. I think a lot of it's semantics, but we we know that something is not the original game.
00:57:47:09 - 00:58:03:27
Lully Jo
Like this is a new version of events, but the old version of events did in fact happen. And that's why the whispers are like, wait a minute, what is this? And they're trying to restore it. And then you have several whispers. See, this is so hard to talk about. It gets so convoluted, so fast.
00:58:03:29 - 00:58:39:18
Wade
So bad. This is a really important distinction here. And I just want to be crystal clear for, for everybody. Right. so part of this idea is that the original game is essentially the, and correct me if I'm wrong, the, preferred will of the planet that the whispers are trying to preserve, and Sephiroth or one of these Sephiroth is cognizant of that and is trying to manipulate and deviate from that original preferred path.
00:58:39:20 - 00:58:52:16
Wade
And therefore there's a subversion or an overcoming of the planet's whispers and a creation of his own whispers. Now, to try to manipulate is that kind of driving this?
00:58:52:18 - 00:59:16:25
Lully Jo
I think it's it's a potential. I also okay, because I think that so much of what's happening in remake is technically Aerith and SAP Roth both playing 3D chess. Okay. because we know that she can feel him in the live stream. And I think that Aerith that we meet in this world is an area that all of her memories include everything that already happened up to Advent Children.
00:59:16:25 - 00:59:32:29
Lully Jo
She like, I think she knew that. And then the whispers are stealing it from her to to keep her off her off her game. Because yeah, the black whispers are the ones that when they touch her, she forgets things. Correct. I think it was only the black whispers. I don't think the white whispers did that to her.
00:59:33:01 - 00:59:57:25
Wade
Well, so. So this is where it gets kind of confusing because we don't have a delineation in the first game in the remake. Right. And so she says in chapter one of rebirth, in the bedroom with Tifa, is there like, preparing to go to sleep? She says when the whispers touched me and kind of in the singularity, I think that's when her memories left.
00:59:57:25 - 01:00:20:17
Wade
But we don't see the distinction right until, like, chapter nine in Gonzaga between the white and black whispers. Yeah. So it seems like there's some kind of rift, but I think I'm with you like the whispers that seem to be manipulated by Sephiroth, that we don't realize that and remake. They're the ones that took our memories.
01:00:20:20 - 01:00:38:16
Lully Jo
Yeah, I get the feeling the. Yeah, I get the feeling that he he knows she's there. And we know he knows that she's been hopping around because he says it to her in chapter 1414. He's like, oh, so there you've been hiding. Yeah. So we know that they know of each other. And there's also a point and remake.
01:00:38:16 - 01:01:19:15
Lully Jo
I didn't notice this, so I can't take credit for this. Okay. I don't remember who said it, but they pointed out how there's so many times where the camera angle when when Aerith is with cloud, will be far away, like they're being watched by someone else. And that that could imply that that Sephiroth keeping an eye on her and keeping her from basically stopping him from doing what he's trying to do, and I thought that was because that's such a great cinematic tool to use to change the the frame like that, to imply that these characters are being watched by someone who maybe isn't physically there, but is able to see them.
01:01:20:08 - 01:01:27:13
Lully Jo
And the fact that we saw that in remake and then it continues to chapter 14 like that feels really cool.
01:01:27:16 - 01:01:32:24
Wade
That is cool. It's almost like they have a plan which a lot of fans would be like, they're they don't.
01:01:32:26 - 01:01:40:17
Lully Jo
Yeah, they're making a video. They're they're waiting for Max to tell them what to do. Yeah. I seriously.
01:01:40:19 - 01:01:45:24
Wade
Why do you think they'd tell the story this way?
01:01:45:27 - 01:02:10:25
Lully Jo
I, I don't know, I mean, partially it's part of it's going to be marketing, right. Like you want to tell a story that's going to keep people at the edge of their seat. It gives them something to talk about. So that makes sense. It's it's, it creates tension and anticipation. but I think also. Oh, is that not reflective of how confusing the actual situation itself is?
01:02:10:25 - 01:02:29:08
Lully Jo
Like, like, this is new to everyone, and I don't even think that's ever I truly know the limitations of this either. They're they're like, we're making stuff happen and we're just going to see how far it goes. Like they're basically stretching the limits of the live stream as far as it'll go, just to outdo each other. So it's all new to them.
01:02:29:08 - 01:02:30:29
Lully Jo
I think everyone's confused, to be frank.
01:02:31:06 - 01:02:39:25
Evan
Are you enjoying the mystery of it? Like, are you enjoying living in the tension and the mystery of having the space because it gives you more room to react to things?
01:02:39:27 - 01:03:00:19
Lully Jo
Yeah, it's it's a lot of fun. Like I said, like I went to full acceptance. Like I know that it's not going to have in terms of like the story and themes itself. It's not going to hit the same way the original game hit. For me as a 14 year old, it's probably not going to mean the same things, but I think it's fun.
01:03:00:23 - 01:03:12:00
Lully Jo
I'm having a good time. I love that, like I don't think it's a master masterpiece or masterclass in storytelling. Do I think it's a good time? Yes, it is a damn good time.
01:03:12:02 - 01:03:13:09
Evan
Okay. That's awesome.
01:03:13:12 - 01:03:13:27
Lully Jo
Yeah.
01:03:14:00 - 01:03:26:18
Wade
So when it comes to remake and rebirth, what have been some of your favorite moments in the ones that you're like? That reaction was like real like it's like a powerful moment.
01:03:26:20 - 01:03:49:02
Lully Jo
Honestly, both in the ending of, a remake and the ending of rebirth. Aerith kind of just coming out. And I know with remake, it depends on, you know, who you gave more affection to. And obviously I always gave it to Aerith, but her just stepping out and fighting several with you was like the coolest moments for me, because you didn't get to do that with her.
01:03:49:03 - 01:04:11:25
Lully Jo
The original game, and she didn't even do that. Na'vi children, like, she kept her distance. She's like, this is all you cloud. You can do it. So I, I love that we get that moment like the first time it happened in remake, I was screaming, screeching. It was not pretty. I think my roommate was laughing at me hysterically because I was just like, oh my God, it's Aerith and I.
01:04:11:25 - 01:04:34:00
Lully Jo
I lost it. And a lot of that for me is because, like, I have a tendency to I get so attached to characters that my brain isn't always good at recognizing they're fictitious and not real people. So when Aerith died, it truly felt like she's gone. She's not here. Like, even though I can go back and replay the game, it's like old memories.
01:04:34:00 - 01:04:55:00
Lully Jo
Like it's not like being with her alive anymore. It's like, yeah, this was good times. I wish it was back. So getting to play remake, it felt like she was alive again. And having that moment just felt so good, and it was so exciting for me to have her be there with us. And basically in my mind, it was her taking revenge on the man who killed her.
01:04:55:00 - 01:05:01:18
Lully Jo
It was great. I loved it so that meant so much to me. I loved that both times.
01:05:01:21 - 01:05:12:03
Wade
Getting into a little bit of speculation here, but along that same train of thought, how do you think her presence will be made known in part three?
01:05:12:05 - 01:05:41:11
Lully Jo
Interesting. I'm of the opinion that there is a version of reality, to put it one way, a version of reality where she was saved. And I think that explains a lot of Cloud's behavior. A lot of people think that he's just more delusional and like, he just doesn't recognize that she's dead. I would argue he knows absolutely that the timeline he's in, she's not alive because he doesn't act weird about nobody else being able to see her like he knows they can't see her.
01:05:41:13 - 01:06:01:10
Lully Jo
And so in my opinion, like he absolutely knows that he is in a version of events where she's not alive and they had to leave her behind in that one. And that's why everyone's sad. But he also knows there's a version of the world where I did save her, and I'm going to find a way to make that the reality is alive.
01:06:01:13 - 01:06:10:03
Wade
That is super compelling, right? Yeah. He's he's aware, like, yeah, we lost her, but we're going to get her back because I see her.
01:06:10:04 - 01:06:20:26
Lully Jo
Like, yeah, it's like I there's multiple worlds. I'm just going to make the world she's in the default one. Like so for us to merge them all I'll merge the one I want. How about that? Because he's still.
01:06:21:00 - 01:06:37:15
Wade
Like this is what's really interesting. He's not fully quote mind controlled by several because the the very ending scene he says I will beat Sephiroth and he says it there, right? So it's like he's not aligned with them or anything. It's like we're going to do this and you're going to him. You'll be fine.
01:06:37:19 - 01:06:51:17
Lully Jo
Yeah. And I think, I think the other thing that I will say, because I know a lot of people, they really though, were like, well, what about his psyche? And it's like, I think the fact that he knows about the multiple worlds is actually going to exacerbate his identity crisis.
01:06:52:11 - 01:07:17:29
Lully Jo
And it's going to cause tension between him and all of his friends. I, I'm, I'm a big Claire's girl. But honestly that ending the way Tifa reacted is so it gave me chills. It made me so emotional. And if they don't do something with that, because this is not only the. This is the second time this woman has lost a female friend that she was really close to.
01:07:17:29 - 01:07:42:29
Lully Jo
She she grew up mostly surrounded by boys, being objectified or, you know, people wanting her attention. So first it was Jesse who she grew very close with, loses Jesse in like the Line of Fire. Then the same thing happens with Aerith. And here's another thing that I'd be interested to know. If they do something with this. They know Tifa has directly been attacked by cloud while he was under separate influence, so she didn't see how Aerith died.
01:07:43:02 - 01:07:51:23
Lully Jo
She saw Sapphire out there in that cloud's holding her right. What's is there not maybe a version of her that's thinking like, did he do it?
01:07:51:25 - 01:07:52:12
Evan
Yeah. What happened?
01:07:52:12 - 01:07:55:20
Lully Jo
And he doesn't know that he did it.
01:07:55:23 - 01:08:15:03
Wade
What an amazing mystery. Their AI, they've got to do something with that, right? I mean, it feels like they've they've set it up because and if you notice, she really even though she's sitting next to cloud, by the water. Yeah. And passing by him, she really does not speak to him.
01:08:15:05 - 01:08:17:09
Lully Jo
Yeah. I don't think she trusts him right now at all.
01:08:17:09 - 01:08:34:19
Wade
I don't think she does either. Even getting on to the Tony Bronco, and stuff, like I have watched that scene over and over and over again and like, Barret interacts with him, others interact. Goofy's playful with him, Tifa melancholy, silent treatment.
01:08:34:19 - 01:08:36:21
Evan
Just standoffish, for sure.
01:08:36:24 - 01:08:55:11
Lully Jo
Yeah. It's like she's scared. I think she's scared of him. I think she's scared of him, miss. Trust him. But also, I mean, she knows that something's wrong, but she doesn't know exactly what. So it's kind of her being in the situation. What do I do? And, like, what does this mean? How do we cope with this? Like, is it wrong for us to go on with him?
01:08:55:14 - 01:09:02:26
Lully Jo
Are we all in danger being close to him? Like. And it's so interesting because in the original game, Barrett was actually the one who was like, why should we keep going with you?
01:09:02:26 - 01:09:03:10
Wade
You're right.
01:09:03:16 - 01:09:27:09
Lully Jo
You're dangerous. And now it seems to be they're putting that on Tifa. And I think that's going to be so exciting for their dynamic to kind of see him. Like they're going to probably fight a lot, or at least there's going to be this unspoken strangeness. And I'm so curious to see what happens with that. How Sephiroth and Jenova are going to use that, how if Eric, it's going to try to be like cloud.
01:09:27:09 - 01:09:50:06
Lully Jo
She thinks you killed me. You know, like like I'm so curious to know where that's going to go. Like, that was actually, for me, the most compelling thing is Tifa reaction, because it not only does it really give depth to her character because it's her specific relationship with Aerith, but it's also her relationship with cloud. Whatever you think that is.
01:09:50:09 - 01:10:02:25
Lully Jo
And it just it it was already on thin ice, and now that ice is threatening to break it, it's it's so exciting and interesting. The drama. I can't wait.
01:10:02:28 - 01:10:29:10
Wade
It really is. And the way that you just described that, I'm like, I'm sold. I'm I'm all about it on that one now. Like that is, that is so, so compelling because, I mean, you're right. Aerith and TiVo's friendship and knowing what cloud tried to do to Tifa, be it under frost control or not, at Gonzaga and then shoving her out of the way with the Black Materia sequence.
01:10:29:12 - 01:10:56:06
Wade
these are two kind of altercations, and so it is not that far removed for Tifa to see the body in cloud and say, where did he do this? Right. Yeah. And so that's going to just kind of be exacerbated all the way to the whirlwind maze. And I think ultimately, which when we get that live stream sequence, I think it's going to be a really powerful sort of moment of like, how does not just cloud heal, but how does he think heal too?
01:10:56:09 - 01:11:00:06
Wade
Yeah. How do you trust somebody at the end of all this?
01:11:00:09 - 01:11:07:11
Lully Jo
like when it's two of your closest friends and you suspect that one might have killed the other like that? That's intense.
01:11:07:14 - 01:11:26:19
Wade
What would you hope if this were to happen again? Sheer speculation. What would you hope from a Tifa and Aerith reunion like? Will they be reunited to some degree in part three? Because everybody's like, well, Zack and Aerith will be reunited for cloud and there will be, yeah, that reunion between Chief and Aerith.
01:11:26:21 - 01:11:47:18
Lully Jo
Oh my God, I feel like that would be more emotional than anything, frankly. Like now, I've never truly thought of it, but like, I don't think whether it's a Clara throws Aerith or whatever situation, I don't think those can hold a candle to Tifa and Aerith finally, like reuniting with her Aerith is still gone and in the live stream.
01:11:47:18 - 01:12:08:06
Lully Jo
Or if she's alive and what that would mean, I'd be curious to know if Tifa is going to start like world hopping to at some point, right? So there's no rules? Yeah, there's no rules. No rules, no rules. I mean, I think this all if they're doing that, I hope they're doing I hope this all culminates in them realizing that they have to fight Jenova.
01:12:08:06 - 01:12:29:22
Lully Jo
That'll probably include, ever Crisis of Wrath fighting Jenova alongside them. So that might be setting up a separate redemption arc, which is not above these developers because they did it in Kingdom Hearts three. so I, I almost expect a separate redemption arc at this point, whether I like that or not. It's beyond me at this point.
01:12:29:22 - 01:12:43:06
Lully Jo
But, no, I think I think there is likely a situation where it's going to be everyone plus wrath, perhaps even Angel and Genesis all versus Jenova. Yeah.
01:12:43:08 - 01:12:51:25
Wade
Okay, so how do you think they factor into all this? Do they are they going to come in in part three? Will they no longer be canon or.
01:12:51:27 - 01:12:57:22
Lully Jo
No. So that's like a such an interesting thing because it's like.
01:12:57:27 - 01:13:00:08
Wade
You would think that we would have seen them by now.
01:13:00:12 - 01:13:29:03
Lully Jo
Yeah. Rebirth. Right. They did. they referenced, Genesis in I believe it was gone. Not going gaga in, the Gold Saucer. Okay. when I think the name of this version of, Loveless is called, like, G version G, I think G is usually alluding to Genesis. That's right. So. And he was a, a big lover of of loveless.
01:13:29:08 - 01:13:30:12
Wade
Loveless. Yeah.
01:13:30:15 - 01:14:00:25
Lully Jo
And I don't know, maybe if we're world hopping and we also know that deep ground stuff is definitely going on because we've seen Nero. Yeah. And and we know Genesis never truly died. He was he's now working with Minerva. Right. So and then if Earth is working with the planet, which is technically working with Minerva, and we remember the outfit they put Aerith in and ever crisis, is there a chance that Genesis and Aerith are already going to be working together at some point?
01:14:00:27 - 01:14:07:07
Lully Jo
Angle is completely. I have no clue what's gonna happen with him. They I don't think they've even alluded to Angel, to be honest.
01:14:07:07 - 01:14:15:11
Wade
So I'm seeing the vacant look on Evan's face. because we have just dropped a lot of different names, and so.
01:14:15:11 - 01:14:16:00
Lully Jo
Yeah.
01:14:16:02 - 01:14:29:15
Wade
Evan, what would you like for us to, to explain very briefly, we understand that we do have a lot of viewers that are not as in-depth into the the lore in the compilation, so we need to go.
01:14:29:17 - 01:14:47:06
Evan
I'll be honest with this one. I think if you're interested in what that means for that, because when we we don't explain stuff for part three very much. I think just pause the video, rewind about five minutes, do a little googling on your own, figure out who those things are, and we'll let people do their own research on that one.
01:14:47:06 - 01:14:53:12
Evan
And, we can kind of move, move towards our kind of closing questions. I think.
01:14:53:14 - 01:15:12:00
Wade
That's fair. so, so to Evan's, point, if you are looking for some of this information, we, we really deep dived into some of the lore and characters of crisis core of ever Crisis and of Advent Children. And so I would, highly suggest going in, looking at some of those characters,
01:15:12:03 - 01:15:13:12
Lully Jo
Cerberus as well.
01:15:13:14 - 01:15:42:02
Wade
And thank you, Dr. Bruce, as well. Yeah. Cannot forget to Church of Service. which is a big Vincent specific sort of thing. So anyway, these characters, the reason that we even ask this question is because, for two thirds of this new trilogy, they really haven't been referenced, Genesis and Engle specifically. And so there's a lot of heavy lifting that would need to be done for part three in order to make this feel, I don't know, integrated.
01:15:42:04 - 01:15:46:21
Evan
A good way or a good reveal in the in the wings is a wild.
01:15:46:22 - 01:15:52:24
Wade
You know, and maybe all of crisis core is just a red hair. And, you know, we love that we're indiscriminate.
01:15:52:26 - 01:16:05:11
Lully Jo
Yeah. I mean, I'm also of the opinion that part three is going to diverge wildly. Oh yeah. Oh okay. Yeah. So that might be like everything is going to bring them in somehow.
01:16:05:11 - 01:16:29:14
Wade
Like so you said that you've come to a place of acceptance regarding what this new trilogy is and that it's not going to retell the original story. and you're still having fun with it. Is there a way, or I guess, how would it be possible for this trilogy to stick the landing for you?
01:16:29:16 - 01:16:51:07
Lully Jo
I really do think it would have to be a Genova Final Battle, because everything we're hearing, like Jenova, she's a calamity that came from the skies. We know that things now of the planet cannot return to the planet. The guy told us so. And so the truth is, it's no matter how many times we defeat Sephiroth, she'll always come back.
01:16:51:11 - 01:17:21:29
Lully Jo
She's going to keep coming back. That's what happened in Advent Children. He basically came back from the dead because of Jenova he created. Or she created Geo stigma. so basically what I feel like is the point of this, which if this is the point of this, I will like it more, is that we're revealing that no matter how many times we have this conversation, no matter how many times we do this, it's just going to end up replaying events because she's not truly gone.
01:17:22:01 - 01:17:47:16
Lully Jo
So the the final battle being a battle where we obliterate Jenova, either shoot her off into space on the rocket, I don't know what we're going to do, but we have to get rid of her in order to actually achieve peace and truly close out this, this entry in the in the in the franchise, in the Final Fantasy franchise, it can only be closed once she's gone.
01:17:47:19 - 01:18:08:12
Wade
Well, you know, I love that the first video I ever made was what is Final Fantasy. And I said Final Fantasy is always known more than anything as the final iteration of an unending cycle. And if that is the case, then I'm all on board with this. I need for it to be the final iteration. and I would love that.
01:18:08:12 - 01:18:30:04
Wade
So I think that you're you're spot on there. What are your hopes? You've already said that you have a real soft spot for Aerith. you appreciate the Aerith and Tifa dynamic? you mentioned, I think I don't want to get too deep into this for in the comments, everybody. But you said that you lean really with what our hopes for all of that in part three.
01:18:30:07 - 01:18:51:08
Lully Jo
I mean, I, I've also said several times, if they're going to sit there and hold it over our heads like, oh, you might be able to save her, just do it. Don't be a coward. Like, because to me, teasing something so much just to be like, oh, we got you. That's like really cheap and tacky storytelling to me.
01:18:51:10 - 01:19:11:23
Lully Jo
if they would, if they would have like, held back on it way more, I probably would've been like, okay. Yeah. Like I get it, okay. But they've leaned into it so hard and the whole story is about fate that at this point I want Aerith to live. like, to me, it just, it would feel unless they can find a way to do it where it feels satisfying.
01:19:11:23 - 01:19:28:06
Lully Jo
Like I've always said, like maybe in part three we will bring her back, but then we'll find out that, like the the world's diverging, too much has made the live stream weak, and the only way to fix it is for them all to merge. And so that means that we might have to say goodbye to Aerith and Zack.
01:19:28:06 - 01:19:44:26
Lully Jo
But, but also, death isn't truly dead. Dead doesn't mean gone. Like they still live with that. So it's kind of like that level of acceptance where that you get to come back, everyone's happy, and then we have that moment of acceptance and we send them off like and on our terms at that point. Right.
01:19:44:29 - 01:19:58:11
Wade
So that level of acceptance would be, in your mind, even if not everybody survives and all that stuff, that would be an appropriate ending for this saga.
01:19:58:14 - 01:20:15:22
Lully Jo
Yeah, I could, I think I could accept it that way. If it if it just turned out to be a gotcha, that would really annoy me. and I don't I don't think that would be a gotcha because it makes sense within the rules they've established already. Like it wouldn't be like something out of left wing that just feels like like someone, you know, holding something over your head.
01:20:15:22 - 01:20:29:11
Lully Jo
It would feel like, oh, okay, I can see you were setting this up like that. Makes sense. but I wouldn't be mad if she lived either, because, again, I've. I've had acceptance and they've teased me with this, so much, and they just do it. Just do it. I don't care.
01:20:29:13 - 01:20:37:21
Evan
What if there's a really compelling mini game to launch Jenova into space, where you have to punch in the launch codes, will you feel better then?
01:20:37:24 - 01:20:46:10
Lully Jo
That would be hilarious. I'm not going to be like, if that's how they that's how they send her off for good. I think I would cry laughing. It would be wonderful.
01:20:46:11 - 01:20:49:09
Wade
Stupendously ultra talented music swells.
01:20:49:16 - 01:20:54:06
Evan
Ultra dramatic moment. You're in a cutscene and then you have a QuickTime event.
01:20:54:09 - 01:21:03:27
Lully Jo
Yeah, but. And then Sid punches the the enter button has a real like Clive moment, like you're the one that's a lot more.
01:21:04:01 - 01:21:04:20
Evan
It's just very.
01:21:04:20 - 01:21:06:16
Wade
This is your Final Fantasy, you.
01:21:06:16 - 01:21:07:03
Lully Jo
Know.
01:21:07:06 - 01:21:08:15
Evan
Southern twang, you know.
01:21:08:21 - 01:21:09:01
Lully Jo
Yeah.
01:21:09:09 - 01:21:10:28
Wade
Fantasy is final.
01:21:11:01 - 01:21:16:00
Lully Jo
Yeah. Oh my God. We've we've solved it. We figure it out.
01:21:16:03 - 01:21:35:21
Evan
Please consider this our application for the writing team at him and scene. Nice to have everybody. Well as we kind of start to wrap up with we want to get Lee to you know what what you've got coming up next and how people can find you. What what do you want. What do you want to wrap us up with Wade?
01:21:35:23 - 01:22:11:10
Wade
Well, I think, the final thing that I would probably ask is, what is the biggest message that you're taking away from this new trilogy? we talked about life and death and grief and even individualization kind of coming your own from the original, but from this new one. what what is a message that you're taking from it that's making you consider your own life and the world around you?
01:22:11:12 - 01:22:38:00
Lully Jo
Right. well, interestingly, it kind of goes back to how I took my independence, right? The story is so much about fate and choosing what that looks like for yourself. And, you know, Aerith appears to have accepted her fate. That's why she's not, like, fighting the fact that she's going to die. whereas Cloud's like, now that I don't agree with that.
01:22:38:00 - 01:23:06:17
Lully Jo
No. Absolutely not. And it's it's kind of like the story of, like, you can either accept what's coming or what you assume is coming, or you can take things in your own hands and try, oh, I feel circle clouds trying like Aerith would have. That's fun. I like that, actually. so yeah, I think the story is really kind of about like taking taking back your life and letting your fate be what you want to define it to be.
01:23:06:19 - 01:23:26:03
Lully Jo
And I mean, it's on like this really big, crazy, convoluted stage, but that feels like that's the message here. I mean, so much talk about fate, so much talk about defying fate. It's it takes me back to, like, brave, right? Like, you know, if you could change your fate, would you? it's kind of like that same story.
01:23:26:03 - 01:23:30:23
Lully Jo
Like, I don't like where this is going, so I'm going to do something about it.
01:23:30:26 - 01:23:56:00
Wade
I love that, I absolutely love it. And I think that that is such a strong theme. thinking specifically of Eric's words at the end, where she says, what we've done, what's been done to us, the past is written, right? Yeah, but what are we going to do now? You know, we can choose a different way. And in some ways, we have agency, and we can defy the fate that's been laid for us.
01:23:56:03 - 01:24:11:24
Wade
I think that's a really powerful thing. Thank you so much for that. as we close out, how can people find you? What are some things that you're excited to share with us? things that we can get excited about as we, look at your content in the future?
01:24:11:27 - 01:24:43:06
Lully Jo
Yeah. So, I mean, I've, I've definitely started doing content. Well, I call myself a video. Essays. I try to stay away from the word content personally. but I, I've kind of told myself I'm not going to give myself burnout. I get tired after work, so I release things when I decide I'm going to release them. But I am working on a the third episode of my Final Fantasy law Deep Dive, which is specifically about Shinra as an empire and what that means in the story, what that looks like.
01:24:43:08 - 01:25:04:15
Lully Jo
lots of World War Two research, let me tell you. oh yeah, I'm excited. And then I also am working on a video that basically is saying I've been children is amazing. And here's why. It's, it's going to talk about both the original movie and the second, like the the redo adventure from complete complete. Yeah, yeah.
01:25:04:15 - 01:25:13:02
Lully Jo
And my opinions on both of those and and also like kind of the history of them a little bit as well. So oh. And those are on my YouTube.
01:25:13:05 - 01:25:15:11
Wade
Awesome. And your YouTube is.
01:25:15:13 - 01:25:18:26
Lully Jo
just Wall-E Joe Marley jumping on YouTube. Yes.
01:25:18:28 - 01:25:21:13
Evan
Thank you so much for coming on.
01:25:21:16 - 01:25:24:06
Lully Jo
Thank you for having me.
01:25:24:09 - 01:25:41:09
Wade
so again, thank you so much for being here. This has been a really enlightening conversation. not just about the game, but also about you. So thank you so much for for being a part. everybody make sure you check out Lonely Joe's stuff. We have the, links in the cards in the in screens in the comments.
01:25:41:12 - 01:26:02:22
Wade
and, make sure you go check out all those things. I know I will be with those video essays and stuff. as a reminder, we do, continue our lecture series on final Fantasy seven rebirth. every Tuesday and Thursday night, we have our lecture plays and then video essays and interviews just like this. For all of that, make sure you are liking and subscribing to our YouTube at Prof.
01:26:02:22 - 01:26:08:14
Wade
Knocked us and, we look forward to seeing you in the future. Anything else? Evan.
01:26:08:16 - 01:26:10:03
Evan
Bye, everybody.
01:26:10:06 - 01:26:13:05
Wade
That's it. With that walk, tell my friends we'll see you in
01:26:13:05 - 01:26:13:29
Wade
class.
01:26:41:07 - 01:26:59:25
Speaker 1
Big thanks to Lily Jo for taking the time for the interview. Thank you so much for the conversation and for all the great work that you're doing over on your channel. Thanks to Huskie by the Geek for the awesome theme music. And thanks to Nick Smith for doing our graphics. Most of all, this program is brought to you by viewers like you.
01:26:59:26 - 01:27:10:03
Speaker 1
So thanks to you. We hope you're doing well. We hope you're having a great week wherever this finds you, and we look forward to connecting with you on a future episode. Bye bye and have a great rest of your week.
