The ProfNoctis Weekly Show

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:18:29
Speaker 1
Hey everyone, I'm Evan and welcome to another episode of The Prof not to Show. This week we have very popular and very fun Twitch streamers drew, Gill and Shupe on the show, and we are just so excited to get to share some of that conversation with you. As always, make sure that you're liking and subscribing. We have a podcast wherever you find your podcast versions.

00:00:19:02 - 00:00:29:25
Speaker 1
It's just an audio only format and it really helps us out. Even if you would just subscribe, even if you watch on YouTube. So thanks for doing that to support the channel. Wait, what can we look forward to with our episode? With Drew and Shupe?

00:00:29:28 - 00:00:52:05
Speaker 2
Today? Our guests go into their backstory and, let us know a little bit about their content creation journey, which is really important because it frames their perceptions and their opinions about Final Fantasy seven rebirth. So, the back end is all rebirth. We're talking about some of the key story sequences, but to really frame it, we try to get into the ins and outs of their own personal lives on the front end.

00:00:52:05 - 00:00:59:20
Speaker 2
So you've got a packed episode today. Hope you enjoy it. And with that, let's mosey.

00:01:24:12 - 00:01:43:19
Wade
Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Prof. Not just show. I am here, as usual with Evan. But today we are delighted to have two very special guests, two fellow content creators, streamers, and just two all around great people. we have, drew, Gill and Shupe. How are you doing today?

00:01:43:19 - 00:01:44:28
Evan
Welcome.

00:01:45:00 - 00:01:48:04
Droogle
Fantastic. Excited to be here. Thank you so much for including us.

00:01:48:06 - 00:01:50:04
Shoop
I'm awesome. I'm excited.

00:01:50:07 - 00:02:12:16
Wade
These two have been some of the just greatest treasures that I've found since starting this Final Fantasy content creation journey. I got to meet both of them, at Pax East, up in, Boston. And, that was our first time really interacting. But since then, I've been following your stuff. you even had me on, a game show one night, which was a ton of fun.

00:02:12:16 - 00:02:22:07
Wade
Got to talk some battlefield season seven rebirth. And, just to to the best people out there. And, we're really excited to get to know you today. So thank you so much for being on.

00:02:22:10 - 00:02:23:29
Droogle
Thank you. Know, you for having us.

00:02:23:29 - 00:02:24:07
Shoop
Yeah.

00:02:24:07 - 00:02:29:12
Droogle
So excited to talk more. Seven rebirth. Whenever I get the chance to talk more seven rebirth I will take the opportunity.

00:02:29:15 - 00:02:31:01
Evan
You are in the right place.

00:02:31:04 - 00:02:32:17
Wade
You are in the right place.

00:02:32:19 - 00:02:33:28
Droogle
Let's go, let's go.

00:02:34:01 - 00:02:39:17
Wade
I gotta say, right off the bat soup. You recently just finished rebirth, though, right?

00:02:39:23 - 00:02:41:09
Shoop
I did not actually.

00:02:41:09 - 00:02:42:03
Wade
Oh, you didn't.

00:02:42:04 - 00:02:56:08
Shoop
A little fun fact of the day is that I have not physically put my hands on rebirth, so I'm going to be speaking from my perspective as an audience member, as someone who watched the entire okay through and moderated a full playthrough on Twitch.

00:02:56:10 - 00:03:01:00
Wade
There you go. So you've seen and you've reacted to rebirth, but without my.

00:03:01:00 - 00:03:02:01
Droogle
Entire playthrough.

00:03:02:04 - 00:03:08:17
Shoop
I have it. I do have it, but I'm going to be playing everything in order on stream, so I'm still going to here.

00:03:08:19 - 00:03:19:01
Evan
This is great because that means we'll just have to have you back on once you've played it yourself and have some different kids, see if your opinion changed at all. And it was a little more hands on. So this is great. Now we get to research. It'll be great.

00:03:19:02 - 00:03:33:21
Droogle
My anxiety is extremely high for when that happens, because I love rebirth so much that I was like, oh, I hope she likes it as much as I do because, she we'll talk about this, I'm sure, at some point. But her history with seven is somewhere. It's, Yeah. I don't know what to call it.

00:03:33:22 - 00:03:34:29
Shoop
We'll say it's different than yours.

00:03:34:29 - 00:03:36:29
Droogle
Yes. So is different. Let's just go.

00:03:36:29 - 00:03:47:06
Evan
Different, different different different. It's good. Speaking of different, you guys are obviously, hanging out together here, and you guys have an interesting story a little bit.

00:03:47:07 - 00:03:49:11
Droogle
That's real. I'm in a studio. What are you talking about?

00:03:49:12 - 00:04:07:06
Evan
Is there? Sorry. Sorry about how you guys maybe met, but before we get into that, I'd love to talk about your history with Twitch and video games in general. You were kind of early on the Twitch train drew. I know, it's a can you tell us a little bit about kind of what your journey has been, and then we'll kind of go from there?

00:04:07:08 - 00:04:14:12
Droogle
Yeah, it started about 11 years ago, and I'm actually going to be celebrating next month, ten years as a partner on Twitch, which.

00:04:14:15 - 00:04:15:19
Wade
Oh my gosh.

00:04:15:20 - 00:04:17:00
Droogle
Really excited.

00:04:17:02 - 00:04:17:14
Wade
Yeah.

00:04:17:18 - 00:04:32:24
Droogle
So excited about that. we're gonna be celebrating on the front page and everything. So I'm really, really excited about that. Boy. It's, you know, God, when I started 11 years ago, I didn't even know what being a partner meant. You know, I didn't know what Twitch was when, PS4 came out in the end of 2013. Right.

00:04:32:24 - 00:04:47:03
Droogle
And I received the console and I put it up and I saw the Twitch app, and of course I signed up for it, and I saw there was this live from PlayStation feature. It was the first time that you could stream from a console, and I also had the PlayStation camera that I ordered with the PS4 at the time.

00:04:47:06 - 00:05:09:21
Droogle
So I'm looking at it, what everybody's doing and everybody's of course, streaming themselves playing games. Meanwhile, me, my first thought is somebody who wanted so badly for the longest time to get into podcasting. You get into discussion on video games in the industry. I'm like, wait a second, like, this would be the perfect opportunity to put the camera up just have it on me without any game and just stream myself talking games.

00:05:09:27 - 00:05:33:22
Droogle
And at the time, there was an application on the PlayStation four called playroom and now it's been extrapolated to become Astro Bot, Astro's Playroom and all that. But back then it was just the playroom. And that was the introduction of astronaut, actually. But it was an AR augmented reality app, so it was an opportunity to just put a camera on myself without anything but the UI stuff of, of the playroom and talk with people.

00:05:33:22 - 00:05:49:00
Droogle
And I set up a Google number and I took calls, and I spent the night talking with people about the PS4 launch. And that night I had 800 viewers concurrently watching me live. Now, I don't even know what that means at the time. Right? I'm just like, oh, this is cool.

00:05:49:00 - 00:05:50:16
Evan
We're talking about Colin Show. I love that.

00:05:50:16 - 00:05:56:14
Droogle
I had no idea that from that moment forward, I would never hit 800 viewers concurrently again.

00:05:56:17 - 00:05:56:25
Evan
That was.

00:05:56:25 - 00:05:57:12
Droogle
The only time.

00:05:57:14 - 00:05:58:23
Evan
In my life and I didn't. Yeah.

00:05:58:25 - 00:06:14:25
Droogle
I just, I, you know, I had no idea. So, from that moment, I was like, oh, light bulb went off. I called up my buddy at the time and I was like, yo, we've always want to do podcasting. Like, this is it. We gotta get over here next week. We gotta do this like weekly. So we set up the level Up show.

00:06:14:26 - 00:06:30:26
Droogle
I set up a new Twitch account called the Level Up Show, and we did a talk show every Sunday for 300 episodes. Wow. doing the level up show and I, as I say, with a partnership, I got partnered on Twitch like eight months later and I didn't even know what it meant. It was such a different time on Twitch, right?

00:06:30:26 - 00:06:41:20
Droogle
Like we I was like, oh, you should be a partner. People were telling me I was like, okay, sure, why not? Email Twitch? Hey, can we be a partner next day? You're a partner. It was just it was.

00:06:41:22 - 00:06:41:28
Shoop
What?

00:06:42:00 - 00:06:43:13
Droogle
It was so different back then.

00:06:43:14 - 00:06:44:29
Shoop
There was no affiliate back then.

00:06:44:29 - 00:06:46:06
Wade
Yeah. Yeah.

00:06:46:09 - 00:06:59:03
Droogle
Such a different time. And, it really was the Wild West because, in the months leading up to that, I actually got banned from Twitch like four different times because we were streaming non gaming content.

00:06:59:05 - 00:07:01:27
Wade
I was just chatting wasn't it?

00:07:01:27 - 00:07:17:18
Droogle
Yeah, it wasn't a thing. They left podcast and talk shows. They didn't have. They have podcasting. They had none of that. They you know just chatting all this was non-existent at the time. It was you were playing a game. There has to be a game. So every time we would do the talk show, we were always in fear of like, are they going to ban us again?

00:07:17:18 - 00:07:31:21
Droogle
Are they going to ban again? Mean four times and we were able each time to get them to remove it. And then finally we talked with a certain individual on Twitch and they're like, you know what? Enough is enough. We're going to whitelist you so nobody bans you. Again, you guys are doing gaming content as a talk show.

00:07:31:24 - 00:07:48:19
Droogle
You're whitelisted. This won't happen again. So and then of course, a year after that or so, suddenly it blew up. Podcast and talk shows became a thing. You've got kind of funny. You got giant bomb. Yeah. All these, all these amazing, productions coming onto Twitch to do podcast and talk show and it blew up.

00:07:48:25 - 00:08:00:20
Evan
It is so cool. What about you? How like, how did you find out about Twitch? What made you want to start streaming? What what did you stream? Were you playing games? Were you also doing a Astro's Playroom VR talk?

00:08:00:20 - 00:08:27:03
Shoop
Yeah, I, I also started streaming like a decade ago. No, I did not. I have been streaming for, about two and a half years, so I am still very much a toddler on Twitch. I, I started streaming, so actually originally I take this back. So I did create my account in 2019. I streamed for a very brief time to one single viewer, and that was my nephew.

00:08:27:06 - 00:08:47:06
Shoop
shout out nephew. Yeah, that nephew was was my was my number one from day one. And I would stream games for him when my brother was ill. My brother passed from cancer in 2019. Sorry to hear that. And, No, it's I mean, it's it's something I've come to terms with, but, but I would stream games to my nephew and keep him entertained.

00:08:47:06 - 00:09:06:09
Shoop
You know, while my brother was sick. And, after my brother passed, I did not stream at all. I mean, I could tell you, I could count on two hands how many times I streamed that year. And it was just to my nephew. and then I returned to Twitch in January of 2022, and I had moved to somewhere that I did not know anybody.

00:09:06:09 - 00:09:22:02
Shoop
I had moved to West Virginia, and the only people I knew were my coworkers at the place that I worked at the time. and they were not very interesting people. Or if they were, we had nothing in common. So I started streaming to find people who enjoyed the same things that I did.

00:09:22:02 - 00:09:23:01
Evan
That's cool.

00:09:23:03 - 00:09:45:06
Shoop
Yeah. And I, I started with Kingdom Hearts. That was the first story game that I played, was the original Kingdom Hearts, and I met several wonderful people. I also met several people that I had to band later on that can happen, can happen. And then I started playing Final Fantasy because that's where my love is. That is where my heart is.

00:09:45:06 - 00:10:09:01
Shoop
And, I started streaming Final Fantasy ten, which is where my namesake is from, and I met a lot of my friends today from streaming Final Fantasy ten, and since then I've streamed several, I've streamed one, two, three, 4 or 5, six, partially eight. I'll get into that later. Okay. Nine. speedrun Excalibur two run of nine.

00:10:09:01 - 00:10:16:00
Shoop
Ten, ten to and 16. And eventually I'll play 15 on stream as well. And one day it's fair.

00:10:16:01 - 00:10:20:05
Wade
I'll join you. I'll help you through it. let me the guide.

00:10:20:08 - 00:10:43:20
Shoop
I know I'm looking forward to it because I played, 15 when I first came out, before it was even finished. Sure. but yeah, my that's my my one True Love is the Final Fantasy series. And I'm looking forward to expanding into other RPGs, especially JRPGs in the future. But I also have, big spot in my heart for indie games and, especially journey if you've never played journey.

00:10:43:22 - 00:10:58:01
Shoop
Yeah. Excellent. Excellent game. And I really I really like to highlight some of the artistic and visual storytelling that might get overlooked compared to a lot of bigger names and titles and such. Yeah.

00:10:58:03 - 00:11:07:18
Wade
Real quick shoot for our audience. you mentioned that your name comes from Final Fantasy ten. I'd love for you to tell us a little bit more about that. What is it?

00:11:07:21 - 00:11:11:09
Shoop
Rides the shoe puff. So everybody good.

00:11:11:09 - 00:11:12:02
Wade
Impersonation.

00:11:12:09 - 00:11:25:14
Shoop
Yeah. Thank you. And my very close friends call me shoe. It's just kind of became my nickname within the first six months that I started on Twitch. but but my full name. If anybody wants to find me, you're not going to find me under. Shoot. You're going to find me under rides. These shoe puff.

00:11:25:16 - 00:11:28:04
Wade
Ride, this shoe puff good with the Z.

00:11:28:09 - 00:11:33:10
Shoop
Yeah. Yes. And there are a lot of imposter rides. Issue puffs on Twitch. I promise. I'm definitely one.

00:11:33:10 - 00:11:39:08
Wade
That's I found them. Yeah. As I was first looking you up, I found all the imposters. I was like, who is this?

00:11:39:14 - 00:11:44:23
Shoop
They've been gifted subs in my channel several times, and one person showed up the other day, I forgot.

00:11:44:24 - 00:11:47:06
Evan
So they they go imitation.

00:11:47:06 - 00:11:48:15
Wade
Like the spider man meme.

00:11:48:17 - 00:11:50:21
Evan
Flattery. You know something about that it'd.

00:11:50:21 - 00:12:12:07
Droogle
Be worth mentioning to, that that's how we met. Two final fantasy ten is how the two of us met. So we were the best things that happened. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, as I said, like, you know, I stream for a long time as the level up show, but once, you know, my co-host at the time went off and did their, their own separate things, they just, you know, moved off on from Twitch, I should say they didn't stay on Twitch.

00:12:12:07 - 00:12:28:23
Droogle
They just kind of. We're done with it. I needed to figure out what was next. And I've rebranded. I rebranded as Google as I am now. And I decided to really focus on awesome. I love as whoopsies. Final Fantasy is what I grew up with. It's really been a life defining, sort of character defining thing for me.

00:12:28:25 - 00:12:53:27
Droogle
So and I kind of told myself when I rebrand, I was like, I'm not going to be the way I used to be. I'm going to start watching other streamers, going to start trying to connect with other people. And that's what I did. So I started traveling a lot of Final Fantasy streams, and Jen Rae, who I mentioned pre-show, who has become one of our great friends through Twitch, we were both sitting in his chat, watching him struggle on one of the, final bosses, a final face of ten for many, many hours.

00:12:53:29 - 00:13:08:27
Droogle
And, we just started kind of chatting with each other. I didn't realize anything. I didn't know anything about. Shoot, at the time, I didn't know that she was a streamer. I didn't know that she was a woman. I didn't know anything about her. But we started connecting, after that stream, and, Yeah. Since then. Now she's living with me.

00:13:08:27 - 00:13:16:28
Droogle
You guys can't tell, but she's back there behind the green screen. so, yeah, it's breaking the illusions. Broken. Yeah. So now we're for you. Yeah.

00:13:17:00 - 00:13:37:21
Shoop
Well, okay, I will fully admit that I pursued him. let me just a disclaimer. Since we're since we're on this topic, disclaimer Twitch is not a dating site. it's very similar to, like, you just happened to run into somebody at, like, a running club or a chess club or whatever. We just happened to meet on Twitch.

00:13:37:21 - 00:13:46:16
Shoop
Please do not go pursue parasocial relationships with people that you might not actually connect with in that way. We just happened to connect that way.

00:13:46:19 - 00:13:58:16
Evan
to late Twitch. If you're taking people on terminally online, people on Twitch should not have parasocial relationships. No platform is built on parasocial relationships. It's like what? That.

00:13:58:16 - 00:14:05:09
Wade
But it's like everyone always said, Twitch may be a hopeless place, but you can find love in a hopeless place.

00:14:05:10 - 00:14:08:19
Evan
Yeah. You know, I think. There you go. That's. Thank you. Rihanna way.

00:14:08:22 - 00:14:09:27
Droogle
Yeah. That was beautiful.

00:14:09:27 - 00:14:10:21
Evan
Wait a minute.

00:14:10:21 - 00:14:28:16
Shoop
Breathing is like, I mean, I, I had been when drew and I met, I was going through a tough time and he was also going through a tough time. And we, were able to be very honest and vulnerable with each other. And he helped me with some things, and I helped him with some things. And we had a great, you know, I'd say friendship, before pursuing anything further.

00:14:28:16 - 00:14:40:06
Shoop
And I mean, obviously now, like, you know, almost three years later, we live together and life is great and we are still a bunch of Final Fantasy nerds. Now we just live under the same roof.

00:14:40:08 - 00:14:53:05
Wade
Well, would you feel comfortable sharing a little bit about, like, what was it like to transition from, like knowing someone online to in person? Because that that sounds like an interesting story I did.

00:14:53:08 - 00:15:11:00
Shoop
Oh, I can, I can, I can detail a little bit about like the first time we met in person. Okay. we had agreed that he would come visit me for the first time. Okay. And, so me a complete nervous wreck. I was, like, deep cleaning my house. I looked like I was on amphetamines or something because I'm, like, clean on the baseboards.

00:15:11:00 - 00:15:16:08
Shoop
I'm like, you can't notice. Like a speck of dust. I live in this place. Yeah. It's it's, you know, that crazy thinking, did you?

00:15:16:12 - 00:15:17:19
Wade
It's like moms with guests.

00:15:17:19 - 00:15:21:01
Evan
Yeah. Did you apologize for the mess when he came over? Even though.

00:15:21:01 - 00:15:23:18
Shoop
Oh, cause even though there was no mess. Yeah.

00:15:23:19 - 00:15:27:08
Evan
Oh, I'm so sorry. I've only spent two weeks cleaning.

00:15:27:11 - 00:15:46:18
Shoop
Yeah. See, he shows up and, And I've told people this on stream before because for whatever reason, I've been told that I give off tall energy, whatever that may mean. Okay. So he shows up at the door and I open very, very, very timidly open the door like hi. And the first thing he says to me is you really are tiny.

00:15:46:22 - 00:15:47:04
Shoop
Yeah.

00:15:47:07 - 00:15:49:09
Droogle
I did not say it like that or with that.

00:15:49:09 - 00:15:49:29
Wade
Face you.

00:15:49:29 - 00:15:51:02
Shoop
Said it.

00:15:51:05 - 00:16:12:16
Droogle
I must defend myself here. So first off, I did agree at the time that she does give off tall energy. And the reason is because she's got a long torso, you know, and you only see it. You only see torso on twitch. You don't see her short little legs. So so I but she did tell me before I met her, she's, she told me that she was five foot three and I was like, okay, she's five foot three.

00:16:12:20 - 00:16:28:16
Droogle
But I was not prepared. I was not prepared for how short five foot three is, I guess. I don't know, I guess I thought five foot three was taller, I don't know, I'm six foot one. So when I met her, I was like, oh, you are tiny. Yes. It was the first thing I said, but it's I said, it is more and then like, oh, you are tiny kind of way.

00:16:28:16 - 00:16:30:27
Droogle
Not like that entertainer like that.

00:16:31:00 - 00:16:39:02
Evan
I'm that's where we first came. Yeah. Had by our access on who is a VTuber and by access doesn't have legs so that he's all torso.

00:16:39:03 - 00:16:44:11
Wade
That's what we learned from the little V2 birthing all torso. All torso.

00:16:44:14 - 00:16:59:25
Shoop
Yeah. The first time I, when I did a stream, where I got to introduce drew, and of course, everybody was like, oh, my God, are you to a thing? As if people didn't already somewhat guess, and they're again, they're like, well, let me see how tall you are next to each other kind of thing.

00:16:59:27 - 00:17:24:06
Shoop
So drew and I are seeing next to one another. I barely come up to his shoulder and he just. I'm just an arm rest perfectly. Yeah, but it it is kind of weird, like when you when you. Because, you know, on camera and people can, can really, especially online obviously can really perfect themselves with filters or lighting or studio fixes, things like that.

00:17:24:08 - 00:17:41:06
Shoop
And so even though you're still in, you know, it's a live stream and stuff, you can still make yourself look more camera ready than when you're in person. So I will say, I was concerned that when he showed up to my house that I was going to be catfish, he looks the same.

00:17:41:09 - 00:17:43:09
Droogle
Yeah, you know, the beard is fake.

00:17:43:09 - 00:17:43:26
Evan
The pictures, I.

00:17:43:26 - 00:17:45:17
Shoop
Think it's part of the studio.

00:17:45:19 - 00:17:46:14
Wade
Added in post.

00:17:46:14 - 00:17:47:09
Evan
Yeah. That's great.

00:17:47:09 - 00:17:51:25
Wade
drew, any any other community tips that you might have?

00:17:51:27 - 00:18:17:08
Droogle
So if we're just kind of on a general like, hey, I want to get into streaming and all of that as well. what I would say is there's so many different outlooks on this. A lot of people will be like, do variety, you know, do do one game and and there's no one true answer to that. For me, I think it's be wary of what you are setting as your your template.

00:18:17:08 - 00:18:32:03
Droogle
I guess moving forward your brand. I guess, is a good way to put it. Because if from the very beginning you do decide I'm going to be a variety streamer, I'm going to do this all the way and that becomes your thing when you switch from that. If you decide to switch from that, it can be a start from zero type moment.

00:18:32:03 - 00:18:48:02
Droogle
And I think that's especially true if you are hey, I'm going to be a Final Fantasy streamer and only a Final Fantasy streamer. You do that for two years. You've gone through every single Final Fantasy game. You've done speedruns, you've done modded runs, and you're like, what do I do now? and you're like, you know what? I'll do, Zelda?

00:18:48:09 - 00:19:13:23
Droogle
Suddenly, half your community is gone. So you have to really decide, like, okay, what am I going to be? And what's my brain going to be and set up maybe even some set up, some, back ups in a way. Like for me, I have always been a variety streamer, but I would say I've focused on specific genres or or specific series, but I've always been like a two series at a time type thing.

00:19:13:23 - 00:19:35:00
Droogle
Like right now I am doing Astra as my one game, but then I'm doing a full series playthrough of Kingdom Hearts, and then I'll never do one thing, almost ever at the like a whole week. The only time I did that was rebirth because I was so obsessed with it with blades. but normally I want to switch it up between two different genres or two different series so that I'm continuing to bring in lots of people.

00:19:35:06 - 00:19:57:22
Droogle
And then I also want to be somebody that's known to just discuss games, love games, love the industry, want to talk about it because it's then you just bring in anybody that likes to be a part of that conversation. So keep that in mind, like which crowds you're drawing in and it sucks, but it's the truth. You're probably going to lose a large portion of those when you're no longer catering to their specific design.

00:19:57:22 - 00:20:17:29
Droogle
Right on Twitch. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with a Kingdom Hearts fanatic only wanting to watch Kingdom Hearts streams. It's just the way it is. You need to understand that before you start deciding. I'm only going to stream Kingdom Hearts. Really think about two, three, five years from now what you want to be on Twitch because it's going to change.

00:20:18:01 - 00:20:40:27
Shoop
I mean, I went through that and I and I've had this discussion very openly with my, my little corner of the internet, that when I, when I started obviously, like, I took off very quickly, I grew very quickly in my first year. it has, it has since, been a much slower growth because I'm not playing Final Fantasy ten nonstop.

00:20:41:00 - 00:21:11:28
Shoop
Yeah. Like I experienced a lot of growth during my first on stream playthrough of Final Fantasy ten. And I could tell you, if y'all ever do a Final Fantasy ten episode, please call me because I can tell you literally everything about it. But I mean, I that's not all who I am. Yeah, my namesake is from there, and it's my second favorite game of all time, but that's all me and I love and I mean absolutely love visual novels, but in game form.

00:21:11:28 - 00:21:35:03
Shoop
And I love sharing that with people. And are the same people going to be there for Final Fantasy first playthroughs, especially because people are obsessed with always being there for a first playthrough. The same people are not always going to be there for a non-verbal, you know, visual art to be, you know what I mean? And that's okay, I my thing is that I will always just share what I love.

00:21:35:03 - 00:21:48:07
Shoop
And if people want to be there for my very emotional reactions to something that I love, and that's great, but that's always going to be who I am is if something makes me cry, I want to play it. That's just me.

00:21:48:09 - 00:22:08:12
Droogle
And also real quick, just to elaborate on one thing I said earlier, you are going to see those ups and downs. You're going to have months, especially during the summer where your numbers plummet. People are doing things are on vacation and it can really affect your mental health. When you go from, you know, 50 people watching you down to 15 people watching you, you're going to question, is it me?

00:22:08:12 - 00:22:25:09
Droogle
What am I doing? Why don't people want to watch me? You're going to go through all of it. You're going to doubt yourself and all this. But you need to remember that those up until ups and downs are going to exist. As long as you are still having a good time doing what you're doing, just power through those moments and and come out on the other side because it's that's streaming.

00:22:25:12 - 00:22:41:16
Droogle
It's the ups and downs, the ups and flow and if you are a full time streamer, that's something especially to know. And anybody who is full time streaming will tell you as a career. It is it is not consistent. It certainly is not consistent. I took a whole year off to try full time streaming once I saved up for a full year prior to that.

00:22:41:21 - 00:22:58:01
Droogle
You know, I work as an architect. I took off. I quit my job as an architect after saving money for a full year to give full time streaming a shot, and it was awesome. It's one of the best things I ever did. I loved it so much, but it also educated me a lot on what to do and not to do and what not to expect.

00:22:58:01 - 00:23:17:15
Droogle
Certainly as a full time streamer, it was. It was tough man to watch month after month. you know, numbers go down or go up for one month and then go down to look at, you know, your revenue and see how inconsistent it was and be like, oh, I'm the fund. This is this big fund of money that I prepared for this endeavor is running out.

00:23:17:15 - 00:23:37:21
Droogle
It's it's a lot, you know, it's it's a big drain on your mental health. So just keep that in mind as well that I'm so happy now that it's it's a side gig for me. You know what I mean? It's it's the cherry on top. It's also some extra money on the side. I've got my career, you know, as as a project manager, and, and I do this as something I just love, but also make a little bit of money off of.

00:23:37:21 - 00:23:42:10
Droogle
And, if you can find that happy place, then, then I think you're good.

00:23:42:12 - 00:24:02:07
Evan
That's really cool. I wonder if we can talk a little bit about kind of how you got into video games and how you kind of fell in love with them and how that led to the streaming. Did you grow up with video games? So there's some early ones that really stick out to you that you were like, yes, this is the one like that I love, and I'm just obsessed with how old were you?

00:24:02:08 - 00:24:05:17
Evan
Who introduced you to it? Tell me a little bit about that.

00:24:05:20 - 00:24:06:13
Shoop
Do you go first?

00:24:06:20 - 00:24:26:09
Droogle
Oh, I'm going first. Okay. so yes, I've always been in the video games pretty much, I think probably started around like 4 or 5 years old. My first, console was the turbo Graphics 16, which I think a lot of people probably don't even know. it was a competitor to the Super Nintendo. It did not do very well.

00:24:26:12 - 00:24:45:19
Droogle
yeah, but it had some good games, to be honest with you. my parents bought me that as a Christmas present. When? When I was young. But I'd say what really got me into gaming was shocker. Final fantasy seven was the thing that did it for me, but I have to give a lot of credits to, my cousin Ed.

00:24:45:23 - 00:24:56:16
Droogle
So when I was younger, my mom, you know, she would she would work the late night shift. She was, she was a nurse at a hospital. So even though she was home during those days, during the summer.

00:24:56:19 - 00:24:57:14
Wade
She too.

00:24:57:17 - 00:25:14:03
Droogle
Yes, she would be exhausted. Obviously, she has worked a late night shift. My cousin Ed, you know, a bit older than us. old enough that he could come over and watch us during the summers while my mom was was resting like, the late night shift off, and he would bring over his PlayStation and he would introduce us to video games.

00:25:14:10 - 00:25:38:06
Droogle
So, of course, he brings over the one introduces me to Final Fantasy seven at nine years old, and it was just I was already in the movies a lot at that time. I grew up with film. My parents would bring me to the movie theater every single week, sometimes twice a week. I was so in the film, and this was the first time that I'd played a video game where I was like, whoa, like characters use this story.

00:25:38:06 - 00:26:01:24
Droogle
Like being invested in this world that takes 40, 50, 100 hours to get through. I was just so blown away by that at the time. And, I connected so much with those characters, but I'd say the one two punch for me. And I bring this a lot up on stream is you had Final Fantasy 7 in 1997, and like I said, that introduced me to amazing storytelling in video game characters to connect with world, to live in.

00:26:01:24 - 00:26:24:18
Droogle
But then the next year, Metal Gear Solid came out. and that was when I was like, wait a second, I love film, I love movies, voice acting, cinematics. This was where the storytelling blended with the cinematics, right? And the cinematic storytelling came together. And then that was when I was like, okay, I am hooked. Like, this is this is a movie that I'm taking part in.

00:26:24:18 - 00:26:32:16
Droogle
There's a movie that I'm living with that. And from that moment forward, it was, those are my two favorite series of all time, Final Fantasy, followed by Metal Gear Solid that's.

00:26:32:17 - 00:26:37:00
Wade
Couldn't pick better ones. And there Metal Gear. My gosh.

00:26:37:03 - 00:26:38:14
Droogle
Yeah. So that's really.

00:26:38:16 - 00:26:39:24
Wade
If I go into this.

00:26:39:24 - 00:26:41:00
Evan
Great adventure.

00:26:41:00 - 00:26:42:09
Droogle
Yeah.

00:26:42:11 - 00:27:12:16
Shoop
So okay so obviously it's kind of on brand for like what I do on Twitch. Ironically, I formed a very emotional connection to gaming to begin with. when I, when I first started gaming, I originally, my parents had divorced and, my dad ended up eventually getting custody of me. And at the time I had, I was living with him, my grandparents, and then also his younger sister and her husband.

00:27:12:17 - 00:27:30:00
Shoop
So it was a whole house of us two full house. And, and my dad shortly passed after he got custody of me. So my grandparents then took custody of me. But they were old and not fun. At least I thought they were not old at all. and but I wanted to hang out with my aunt and her husband all the time because they were really cool.

00:27:30:00 - 00:28:00:01
Shoop
They were in their early 20s and I was like nine, ten years old. so my first introduction to real gaming, as far as Story Gaming was the Final Fantasy eight. I did not play the entire game myself. I watched my aunt and uncle play it. and then I played Final Fantasy nine when it came out, and that was the first game, like real game that I played all the way through by myself.

00:28:00:03 - 00:28:29:07
Shoop
And I loved it. And I loved the coping mechanism that came along with this game. I mean, you know, I and Final Fantasy ten as well, like obviously, you know, nine came out in 2000, but, nine as a little kid, you, you really don't expect like a ten year old to really cope very well with sudden death, especially to a close member of the family such as a parent.

00:28:29:10 - 00:28:39:18
Shoop
but nine was was basically therapy in a box for me and I, I connected so well I don't want to spoil nine. Obviously this is not an online discussion.

00:28:39:18 - 00:28:45:16
Evan
You can just you can use specific examples. If they haven't played Final Fantasy nine at this point.

00:28:45:18 - 00:28:47:17
Wade
To scroll forward about 30s if you.

00:28:47:17 - 00:28:50:08
Evan
Yeah, I would love for you to speak more about what that meant to you.

00:28:50:08 - 00:29:14:22
Shoop
And I having Evie coping with his inevitable own death, which I later grew up into studying. Basically the five stages of grief. If you don't know about Elizabeth Elizabeth Kubler-Ross and like the denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, I bought her book because the Final Fantasy nine, because I wanted to learn more about this, like the stages of grief and why I was experiencing what I was experiencing.

00:29:14:24 - 00:29:40:08
Shoop
And I my family did not have the education or the resources to walk me through grief. so Final Fantasy kind of did that for me in nine and ten especially. but prior to that, I mean, I had played Crash Bandicoot Warped and Spyro and stuff, but it wasn't like where I found my connection. I found my connection with Final Fantasy nine and ten and,

00:29:40:10 - 00:30:00:16
Droogle
You know, something that I've never really, through a lot actually brought up to you and I think would be really interesting, especially today, if it comes up in discussion, since we're going to be getting so much in the Final Fantasy seven, it it makes me really wonder, like, what if Final Fantasy seven was your first? Because. Because if you like Final Fantasy seven, as I think we all know, one of the major themes of Final Fantasy seven is loss.

00:30:00:16 - 00:30:01:02
Shoop
Yeah.

00:30:01:05 - 00:30:06:03
Droogle
And, so I really wonder how you would have connected with that one if that was your first.

00:30:06:04 - 00:30:30:27
Shoop
That's a good question for the for you. I don't know if y'all know this or not. I think I think we'd you might, but I didn't play Final Fantasy seven all the way through. I played disc one several times, but I didn't play seven all the way through until the Covid shutdown of 2020. Yeah, because I resented every single person when I would say I love Final Fantasy, I played a and I play nine, I play ten and they're like, no shock seven.

00:30:30:29 - 00:30:45:16
Shoop
Yes. Yeah yeah yeah. And and you know, I, I've definitely gotten a lot more enlightened in the seven department. But for the majority of my childhood I was told that Final Fantasy nine was stupid and cartoony by anyone, that I was like, hey, this game is really fun.

00:30:45:19 - 00:30:56:05
Droogle
I was always at the same thing. Like, I hated so much when people would tell me that nine was cartoony and they didn't play it because it was like seven and eight were realistic. And then what do you do with nine? A so cartoon like you are, you know.

00:30:56:06 - 00:31:03:27
Shoop
It made me resent seven, even though I never played it because the people that were boasting about it made it seem like every other game sucks.

00:31:03:27 - 00:31:18:23
Evan
It's important to know that enjoying things is a competition, like the second you get that, your enjoyment of something is a competition. We will all be here to remind you that you're only allowed to enjoy things competitively.

00:31:18:23 - 00:31:20:16
Droogle
I talked about this a lot.

00:31:20:18 - 00:31:21:19
Shoop
To talk about six.

00:31:21:19 - 00:31:36:19
Droogle
No, I wasn't talking about six. I'm going to stay away from that story. I don't want to get canceled. but what I was going to say is, I remember at the time there was this weird thing, I think it was like 2000 edge or something like that. I don't know what was going on, but nine wasn't the only one.

00:31:36:19 - 00:31:54:16
Droogle
It was like nine came after seven and eight, and people loved, like sort of the darkness and the grittiness of seven and eight, and they loved that. It was realistic. So nine was like, no, it's kiddy and cartoony. Why would I play this? And then it was the same, like a year later, Legend of Zelda Wind Waker came out, which is my favorite Zelda game, and everybody was like, what are you doing playing the game?

00:31:54:16 - 00:32:12:21
Droogle
This one sucks. And then everybody was like, all through the moon about Twilight Princess because it was realistic and dark and gritty. I'm like, no, you missed out. Wind Waker was fantastic. So there was just like, this weird thing at the time where people just didn't want to, even take part in, in these more lights from a visual aspect because.

00:32:12:24 - 00:32:17:06
Shoop
Not you think if you talked about Final Fantasy nine especially cause probably one of the darkest themes.

00:32:17:12 - 00:32:30:13
Droogle
Exactly. Series got some dark moments. Nine, especially at the end, gets very dark. So it's like you're you're missing now you are judging a book by its cover to keep it simple, right? Like no, give these games a chance. They're beautiful and they really have a lot to say.

00:32:30:16 - 00:32:48:09
Wade
And that's one of the things that I think is interesting about this concept of a, of a nine remake, right? I wonder if they will lean fully into that cheerful esthetic. you know, when people ask, you know, what style would you like for nine? I don't think that it would do it justice to make it hyper realistic.

00:32:48:09 - 00:32:49:19
Wade
I think that it would need to be.

00:32:49:19 - 00:32:50:29
Shoop
Talking about that in the car.

00:32:51:01 - 00:33:05:07
Wade
Really. I think it would be really interesting if they leaned into something a little bit more. Ghibli ask something, even anime style, something that was highly animated. not cartoonish necessarily, but whimsical. maybe.

00:33:05:07 - 00:33:08:04
Evan
A Nino, maybe a Nino, a nino.

00:33:08:06 - 00:33:11:12
Shoop
If you will. What drew said in the car, word for word.

00:33:11:12 - 00:33:17:05
Droogle
Wow, this is so weird. Like, literally, you guys thought that the cars. Yeah. Yeah, because I keep saying you. Nino Cooney.

00:33:17:07 - 00:33:18:03
Shoop
Said that.

00:33:18:05 - 00:33:33:13
Droogle
I was talking about how that is a great way to do an overworld, right? Because a lot of people are like, no, you can't do like the big character model on on the out of scale map nowadays. Like, no, you certainly you can still do that. It worked in Dragon Quest. It worked in Nino Kuni. There's nothing wrong with doing that.

00:33:33:13 - 00:33:55:07
Droogle
And there's a there's a positive to go in that direction as well. When it comes to exploration and all this, it doesn't have to be seven rebirth. As much as I love seven rebirth, it does not need to be a 1 to 1 scale recreation of nines world. They could certainly do something, first of all, a lot more budget appropriate by going something similar to nine, but they can also stay true to the original.

00:33:55:07 - 00:34:15:27
Droogle
They can they can elaborate on the original in a much greater way if they scope it correctly. Right? Because if they try to fully recreate that world, they're going to spend all their resources doing that. But if they stay true to the original, they can take that world and they can elaborate on it in a in a major way, stay true to the original and I agree, whimsy 100% something similar invited Ghibli.

00:34:15:29 - 00:34:24:26
Shoop
I think it needs it though. Nine is one of those games that without the levity, without the whimsy, it loses what makes it so special.

00:34:24:28 - 00:34:26:16
Droogle
The contrast but contrast, right?

00:34:26:29 - 00:34:27:28
Droogle
It's about that contrast.

00:34:27:28 - 00:34:42:27
Shoop
Yeah, it's able to it's able to tackle a lot of heavy themes, but balance that very well with having a little lighthearted moments that don't completely take you out of the heavy, but remind you that we're all a team here. We're all still, you know what I mean?

00:34:42:29 - 00:35:02:01
Evan
I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I think it goes to pacing, right? I mean, it's it's the contrast between it is important out there. You talked about Wind Waker. You talk about nine and you talk about like whimsy in games. I wonder if that's something that you feel like was an aid to you in sort of getting attached to and helping process through some of those things?

00:35:02:01 - 00:35:16:06
Evan
The fact that it was both relatable and serious at the same time in like an alternating way. I wonder what your thoughts are on just kind of what it was about that, that you specifically connected with that helped you in that very personal, challenging moment?

00:35:16:08 - 00:35:38:26
Droogle
I think there's an expression that you can achieve more easily in a way at that time, especially with going with something a little bit more whimsical, cartoonish, whatever you want to call it. but I look back to seven as well, seven OG and when they are in the more chibi style models, they were doing things that were very animated.

00:35:38:26 - 00:35:58:19
Droogle
Right? You got Barry jumping up and down and slamming his fists, and in nine, same way you got Steiner jumping up and down and slamming his fists there. There's there's an animation to that that I could really connect with that at the time where I felt like the hyper realistic stuff, especially for what was trying to be hyper realistic back in those days, you actually lost a little bit of that.

00:35:58:20 - 00:36:20:16
Droogle
You lost a little. It felt more stilted, it felt more rigid. So something like nine and seven even people get on seven from being like, you know, biceps that look like Lego blocks. And I was like, yes, but I think they were actually able to achieve through that in animation and an expression that connected with us. Yeah, it was consistent as well.

00:36:20:16 - 00:36:35:25
Droogle
Right. Yeah. So I think people look to seven and they think of what they looked like in battle, the character models and all that kind of stuff. But really seven was not too much different from nine when you are anywhere else but in battle and in CGI cutscenes. You know.

00:36:35:28 - 00:36:57:09
Shoop
I mean, I kind of want to talk about that, like the color in itself. So for me as a kid, and especially like losing my dad so suddenly I feel like I very much isolated. I was very confused. my grandparents at the time, they're great people, don't get me wrong. But, they were not equipped to deal with a child going through a period of mourning.

00:36:57:11 - 00:37:19:21
Shoop
And for me as a kid there, there's no, there's no linear way of mourning. Like, you have the five stages of grief, but it doesn't necessarily mean you go through the first four the denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and then go straight to acceptance. Sometimes you go back through the other steps and they show up in different orders.

00:37:19:21 - 00:37:40:21
Shoop
And I experienced several years because I felt like it's I'll just touch on this and not try to make things too sad. But my aunt's husband actually ended up passing, wow. And like, not even three years later. And it was really hard for me because he was kind of like my fatherly figure after my dad died, which is that's where Final Fantasy ten came in to help me cope with other things.

00:37:40:21 - 00:38:07:11
Shoop
But, if those games nine and ten especially had not been so light in a world of darkness, it kind of would have if it had been as dark in reality, I would have only been able to look at my world as darkness. Like these games. Let's say they dealt with heavy themes revolving around loss and death, but still, having a brightness to them gave me a lot of hope.

00:38:07:14 - 00:38:34:03
Shoop
Yeah, I, I mean, I spent hundreds of hours alone in my room. Yeah. and and I was very sad in these games, the characters in these games became my, my friends, you know, and, Yeah. And their worlds became the worlds that I wanted to live in. Because while they were going through so much darkness, they still had this, this, this bit of hope and this bit of light.

00:38:34:03 - 00:38:59:21
Shoop
And it was how beautiful their world was and the beautiful friendships that they had. And yeah, how what's the word for it? How persistent they were. throughout so much hardship, especially, you know, in Final Fantasy ten, obviously I relate to her a lot. She, you know, goes through, through several things in her life that anybody would, would probably throw in the towel for, and, and same thing for Vivi.

00:38:59:22 - 00:39:04:15
Shoop
He's a little he's nine years old. Yeah, facing his eventual death.

00:39:04:18 - 00:39:21:03
Droogle
But I think there's a reason these games, specifically Final Fantasy, like, they're hard to let go. yeah. There's a reason Final Fantasy series specifically is known for, like a post game depression, because it is so hard to finish these games and leave these worlds and leave these characters especially.

00:39:21:04 - 00:39:22:15
Shoop
I call it the emotional hangover.

00:39:22:15 - 00:39:41:15
Droogle
It is like an emotional heart is like you feel like you're losing family when you finish these games because you spent so long with them and you connect with them so deeply. There's so many different archetypes of characters in Final Fantasy, and there's almost always going to be one or 2 or 3 that it's like that, this this person is like me, like I'm connecting with this person in a major way.

00:39:41:15 - 00:39:42:24
Droogle
And it's it's hard to let go of them.

00:39:42:25 - 00:39:47:07
Shoop
I didn't spend $700 on Princess Garnet back there for no reason. That's my.

00:39:47:07 - 00:40:06:16
Droogle
Goal, right? Right. And I think final Fantasy ten, since it was brought up, a lot of people talk about nine being like the colorful, cartoony one, but ten is no different in that. That's the whole point, right? Spirit is called spirit because it's the spiral of death. It's about that, that cyclical nature of it. But the setting of ten is literal Paradise.

00:40:06:18 - 00:40:17:03
Droogle
Like that's the like that's the whole thing is like, you've got this tragic story ultimately in Final Phase ten, but set in one of the most beautiful worlds in Final Fantasy, in my.

00:40:17:03 - 00:40:20:13
Shoop
Opinion, the southern tropical spirit. Yeah, yeah.

00:40:20:15 - 00:40:42:22
Wade
In my classes we talk about, mythology and all of these kind of formative, stories, especially like creation stories that the world has passed on. And we have a definition of myth, and it really comes from, Karen Armstrong, who wrote, she she's kind of a religious anthropology, a philosopher, philosophy, religion sort of thing.

00:40:42:25 - 00:41:17:12
Wade
And when she speaks of myth, she says, when we use the word myth, in some ways we speak of something that is true whether or not it happened. When we speak of myth, we speak of something that may or may not have happened in one time. But in many ways it happens all the time. When I talk about Final Fantasy, I do talk about these as modern myths, reinterpretation of myths, and the thing that happens in a myth that that whether it is a superhero movie, which I would, I should write a thesis one day on, like, these are the modern myths of our day.

00:41:17:12 - 00:41:45:04
Wade
We see ourselves in Captain America, or whether it's, Final Fantasy. These are stories that resonate so deeply with us on a human level, and to kind of transition a little bit into our rebirth discussion when you're dealing with these formative myths that people see their lives in the midst of those lives, our stories in the midst of those stories, if someone tampers with it in any way, it feels incredibly encroaching on meaning.

00:41:45:08 - 00:41:59:14
Speaker 1
All right, everybody, it's that time of the episode for our mini game Stretch Break. So everybody, let's just get a little stretch. I just want to say thanks again to drew Gill and Shu for joining us for this episode. Viewer, listener, wherever you are. Oh, a little stretch, you guys.

00:41:59:16 - 00:42:01:16
Speaker 2
I can hear that. But that was a massive crack over there.

00:42:01:17 - 00:42:02:15
Speaker 3
I'm tired of that.

00:42:02:15 - 00:42:08:09
Speaker 1
We live for it. Be kind to yourself, you know, just get up, move around a little bit.

00:42:08:11 - 00:42:10:18
Speaker 2
I want to reveal my pit stains.

00:42:10:21 - 00:42:12:21
Speaker 1
Hey, listen. Hey, it was an intense interview.

00:42:12:21 - 00:42:14:14
Speaker 3
Everybody was intense.

00:42:14:17 - 00:42:15:28
Speaker 4
Sam.

00:42:16:01 - 00:42:23:03
Speaker 1
so before we jump into our bingo wheel of vulnerability, you know that we got to hit that theme music. So. Three. Two, one.

00:42:23:06 - 00:42:31:02
Speaker 3
Bam bam bam bam bam bam. Love it up.

00:42:31:04 - 00:42:31:13
Speaker 4
In the.

00:42:31:15 - 00:42:34:25
Speaker 1
Lair. Thank you so much, Rachel.

00:42:34:28 - 00:42:40:21
Speaker 3
Honestly, that might have been the best one we've ever done. That was like a chorus. Maybe says there's four of us.

00:42:40:21 - 00:42:42:26
Speaker 1
That's like lovely. That was a good read.

00:42:42:26 - 00:42:47:03
Speaker 4
It drew. And I being in the same room. It's helpful half time. Yeah.

00:42:47:03 - 00:42:57:28
Speaker 1
But perfect. Listen, you guys did great. So everybody we have our bingo wheel of vulnerability. This is our time in the episode where we get to know each other a little bit better. Wade, talk a little bit about our question cards that we're going to be using today.

00:42:58:01 - 00:43:13:06
Speaker 3
The question card that we're going to be using today comes from the Heroes Journal side quest deck. there's a journal. We've got a, link in the comments here. And this is to help you live every life, every day like it's an adventure. So there we go.

00:43:13:09 - 00:43:22:19
Speaker 1
So inside the bingo wheel of vulnerability, we have the numbers one through 50. Drago and Shoop. We're going to let you guys guess your numbers first and then wait. And I will guess the number.

00:43:22:21 - 00:43:24:06
Speaker 2
Okay. We each get a number. Yeah.

00:43:24:06 - 00:43:25:22
Speaker 1
You each get a number one through 50 okay.

00:43:25:22 - 00:43:27:06
Speaker 2
I'm going to go with 30.

00:43:27:06 - 00:43:28:20
Speaker 1
333.

00:43:28:22 - 00:43:30:07
Speaker 4
I thought he was going to take my number.

00:43:30:08 - 00:43:31:19
Speaker 2
I won't do that. I know what your number is.

00:43:31:21 - 00:43:32:25
Speaker 4
He knows what my number is.

00:43:32:29 - 00:43:33:09
Speaker 1
And your.

00:43:33:09 - 00:43:36:11
Speaker 4
Number is. My number is 1313.

00:43:36:11 - 00:43:39:13
Speaker 1
Okay. 3313. Wait. What do you want this week?

00:43:39:15 - 00:43:40:29
Speaker 3
I'm going to do number one.

00:43:41:01 - 00:43:42:15
Speaker 1
I was going to do number one.

00:43:42:18 - 00:43:44:02
Speaker 3
Oh I'm number one.

00:43:44:02 - 00:43:57:29
Speaker 1
I'm going to do number 50. Then we'll bookends it okay. So 313 one and 50 okay. So juggle Shoop I'm going to spin it. And you guys just tell me when to stop and I'll grab a ball. Stop. Wow. Really good okay.

00:43:57:29 - 00:43:59:28
Speaker 3
The synchronicity. What?

00:43:59:28 - 00:44:16:15
Speaker 1
Here we go. here it comes. That number is oh, my gosh, 14. So close. You're so close, so close. 14. So listener, if you guessed 14, you win. Congratulations. wait. Let's get that 14th question. Go. Okay.

00:44:16:18 - 00:44:19:21
Speaker 3
Got it right here. This is an interesting one. Okay.

00:44:19:23 - 00:44:20:17
Speaker 1
So.

00:44:23:25 - 00:44:27:16
Speaker 3
How did you learn to make a paper airplane?

00:44:27:18 - 00:44:28:17
Speaker 1
Oh. Very interesting.

00:44:28:20 - 00:44:34:06
Speaker 3
Like, when did you learn? Tell us the story of when you learned to make a paper airplane. I never.

00:44:34:06 - 00:44:35:22
Speaker 4
Thought I'd be able to tell this story, but I.

00:44:35:22 - 00:44:37:25
Speaker 2
Have a story. I think you have a story. I don't.

00:44:37:28 - 00:44:54:20
Speaker 4
I am so sorry, I. Okay? I wanted to make a kite. I was like eight, nine. I did this with my dad. I wanted to make a kite. And so obviously piece of paper, it's square. I cut off some edges to try and make it more diamond shape and I cut a hole through it. I try to tie a piece of yarn through it.

00:44:54:20 - 00:45:02:15
Speaker 4
It didn't work. It didn't work anyway. That's when my dad was like, do you want to learn about aerodynamics?

00:45:02:18 - 00:45:04:24
Speaker 1
Well, hello child.

00:45:04:26 - 00:45:20:27
Speaker 4
I tried to make a guy and he's like, all right. And our aerodynamics time. And he just showed me how to make a paper airplane. Obviously the paper airplane wasn't great, but it went a couple feet. But yeah, I was I think I was like 8 or 9 or something like that. And it was all because I tried to make a kite, try it out.

00:45:20:28 - 00:45:22:01
Speaker 4
Well that's.

00:45:22:01 - 00:45:22:21
Speaker 1
Awesome.

00:45:22:23 - 00:45:25:28
Speaker 4
Piece of paper with no wind does not work. Just so you guys know.

00:45:26:00 - 00:45:28:15
Speaker 1
What's to nobody. Try it now.

00:45:28:18 - 00:45:29:03
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:45:29:06 - 00:45:50:00
Speaker 2
I'm trying to think back here I am almost 100% positive that it was my dad. That was my dad was really in the model airplanes. Like the ones where you like, like, literally build them and they're like a decent size. And you have to like, use like the shrink wrap and like the heat gun and like, wrap it and use like the actual like you're actually like modeling it to be used with like a controller and everything.

00:45:50:00 - 00:46:06:03
Speaker 2
Like it's got what they call like servos or some like that where you can control the rudders, like he would do the whole thing. So he was he was really into like the aerodynamics and all that of, of making it all work. So of course my dad doesn't just teach you how to do like a normal paper. It's not like just like the he fold it three times.

00:46:06:09 - 00:46:24:20
Speaker 2
Go. It's like the no. You got to make a little point here and a point there. And you know of course it's all competition on how far it flies. So that's a memory I do have. And I bet you that's by the first time as well, is thanks to my, very, very clever dad. He's he's very, very creative.

00:46:24:23 - 00:46:27:24
Speaker 2
He's very good with his hands. Shout out. So thank you, dad.

00:46:27:26 - 00:46:50:04
Speaker 3
Okay. I'll go. I remember I was in and I think it was first grade and there was a paper airplane throwing competition, and, I remember they said, so take a sheet of paper design on it however you want and all the stuff. And they would give us, like, crayons. And so I made, like, I didn't know how to make a paper airplane, but I knew that you had to fold it somehow.

00:46:50:04 - 00:47:13:16
Speaker 3
So I just drew all kinds of things. I'm pretty sure I drew a Mario on this sheet of paper, and then I tried to turn it into an airplane and, Mario, Mario did not get to the princess anymore. You, like, tanked immediately. So I went home afterwards, and I had this, like, sheet of paper, and I again, I, I went to my dad and I was like, do you know how to make a paper airplane?

00:47:13:16 - 00:47:28:26
Speaker 3
Because this was awful. And he was like, well, no son of mine is going to lose in a paper airplane contest. He showed me how to news. I know if you wanted to go far, then you have to tip the wings up like this. He was like a professional paper airplane maker or whatever. It. It was pretty impressive.

00:47:28:26 - 00:47:30:11
Speaker 3
So anyway.

00:47:30:14 - 00:47:32:03
Speaker 2
I think our dads would have been friends.

00:47:32:06 - 00:47:32:27
Speaker 3
undoubtedly.

00:47:33:02 - 00:47:37:18
Speaker 4
See you like that. I love that the paper airplane is, like, such a dad thing.

00:47:37:21 - 00:47:39:06
Speaker 1
A dad thing. It's definitely a great.

00:47:39:06 - 00:47:40:23
Speaker 4
Thing to learn how to make a paper airplane.

00:47:40:23 - 00:47:41:05
Speaker 1
Oh, great.

00:47:41:06 - 00:47:44:00
Speaker 3
Question three. That's the big question. Evan, what about you?

00:47:44:00 - 00:48:02:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, same thing for me. My dad, is an engineer, so it was very much a this is this is how we're going to do it. Here are the options. And then it was a process improvement lesson, of experimentation and testing. we even made little rudders so that it would, like, spin in a circle. And we learned all about, aerodynamics.

00:48:02:06 - 00:48:03:01
Speaker 1
Amazing.

00:48:03:04 - 00:48:15:22
Speaker 4
Why do I feel like in, like, in your household, like, when it comes to having an engineer for a father, potty training and paper airplane making kind of just go hand in hand. Like, if you want to go to kindergarten, you got to know how to do these two things.

00:48:15:22 - 00:48:17:15
Speaker 1
These are the things you're getting. One of them.

00:48:17:15 - 00:48:18:12
Speaker 2
Is fluid dynamics.

00:48:18:12 - 00:48:36:29
Speaker 1
You're going to be ready. Yeah. Hello. Well, and he and he and he taught me as a I was a very small child. not very strong. He also taught me how to fight. And what he said was just run away. You're fast. like he said, under no circumstances should you ever try and engage anyone in combat, you are to play to your strengths and flee.

00:48:36:29 - 00:48:41:13
Speaker 4
So it's only if you can't get away. This is why it's called self-defense. You can't get away.

00:48:41:18 - 00:48:59:09
Speaker 1
Yeah. He said don't even try. Yeah, you're wasting time to try. Just run. You're very fast. You can escape. Oh, yeah. So it was a good lesson to learn. So, let's hope that you've enjoyed your stretch break, everybody. Let's get another stretch in here. Drew Gill. Shoop. Thank you for sharing about your paper airplanes experience. And, you know, leave it in the comments to the discord.

00:48:59:09 - 00:49:16:22
Speaker 1
What was your, first experience learning how to make a paper airplane or a notable paper airplane story that you want to share? Just connect with some people and connect maybe with your past a little bit. So speaking of past, let's talk about how our past informed our opinions on Final Fantasy seven rebirth. What a transition. See you back in the episode everybody.

00:49:16:22 - 00:49:41:29
Wade
All right, so as we transition over to, the idea of rebirth and, our take on that, I think that so, so often when we're thinking about myths and all this stuff, we do get protective, especially the stories that have helped make us and in some ways remake us in the midst of our lives. So, you know, there's a lot of opinions about remake, Final Fantasy seven remake and rebirth.

00:49:41:29 - 00:50:05:29
Wade
And, you know, it's because people have this deep love and respect and meaning from the original. And certainly the same with, the possibility of an FF nine remake. What kind of cautions thoughts do you have regarding remake? How do you approach it, especially in light of some of the, changes, perhaps, that they have made in remake?

00:50:06:02 - 00:50:09:00
Wade
did you meet that with with caution and all that kind of stuff? Go for.

00:50:09:00 - 00:50:27:12
Droogle
It. It's tough because I think I'm different than a lot of the Final Fantasy seven fan base. I think. I think it's just that we're very split on this, right? And from the moment that I played seven and I loved seven so much, it really wasn't that long after the original release that people were already talking about a remake.

00:50:27:14 - 00:50:46:22
Droogle
I remember people talking about a remake of Final Seven and like the early 2000, like that early on, people were talking about it. And of course, that sort of became a true possibility for a lot of people in 2005 ish. I want to say, when the Final Fantasy seven tech demo was released with PS3, and I remember when that first was shown up, people thought it was a real thing.

00:50:46:22 - 00:51:09:21
Droogle
And then of course it came out that it was just a tech demo, but that was really the moment where it's like, oh my God, now I really want the Final Fantasy seven remake. But me personally, I would at the time I was like, as much as I would love this, like, how do you do this? And and not upset half the fan base, how do you how do you do this with being new and original, but also paying homage to the original?

00:51:09:21 - 00:51:29:22
Droogle
Of course, it wasn't until ten years later, in 2015, that they truly announced Final Fantasy seven remake, and by that point, it was even more dangerous. In my opinion, you'd gone almost 20 years at this point, people clamoring for a remake, fawning over the original, loving it so much, and in some ways not liking the compilation of Final Fantasy seven.

00:51:29:22 - 00:51:47:03
Droogle
Since some people didn't like Crisis Core, a lot of people didn't like dirge Cerberus. You know, it was the the original was this untouchable thing. And it's like, how do you do that? Like and then they announced that it's not going to be one part, that it's going to be three parts. And the fan base explodes. Right? It's like, what are they doing?

00:51:47:03 - 00:52:03:22
Droogle
They're nickel and diming us. I think from the moment that information came out, a lot of people just expected the worst. They they assumed that it was going to be terrible. It'll never match the original. There's no way they can do this. Right. And I think there was a sort of confirmation bias that came from that with its eventual release.

00:52:03:24 - 00:52:28:00
Droogle
I will admit me personally, when I heard that it was gonna be three parts, like almost everybody, I think I was wary. I was like, okay, just Midgar for the first game. How like it's six hours in the original. How do you take a six hour chunk of game and make it into a 40 hour RPG? But I'd say it probably only took a few weeks before I could really sit on.

00:52:28:01 - 00:52:44:28
Droogle
I was like, okay, well, hold on a second. I think this comes from my love of the gaming industry as a whole and really inspecting game development. And I think understanding game development a little bit better than some people do. and that just I'm so invested in, in, in investigating studios and what they're working on and, and the process of it.

00:52:44:28 - 00:53:10:23
Droogle
Right. You when you really think about what they are doing with Final Fantasy seven remake, rebirth and part three and you understand what is changed since 1997 and game development since 1997. You look at that original and you understand that Midgar is a collection of dozens of pre-rendered backgrounds. When you go from one location to the next, you are skipping a major chunk of travel in between.

00:53:10:23 - 00:53:29:01
Droogle
You're literally you. I always talk about the train graveyard, and I think we've even talked about this before. the train graveyard in the original game is two screens. Two screens. It is literally two pre-rendered screens. You can run through it in five minutes. If you only have, encounters one, you can run through it in one minute.

00:53:29:04 - 00:53:41:01
Droogle
It is literally that short. What people have been okay with going through the train graveyard in five minutes today? I think a lot of people would say they would be, but they would not. Probably not. They would not have been. They could say that they.

00:53:41:06 - 00:53:44:03
Wade
Was that why why was that in there? Yeah.

00:53:44:06 - 00:53:45:27
Shoop
There was no way they could have given us more.

00:53:45:27 - 00:54:04:04
Droogle
Was too much time spent in the train graveyard? I think that's a conversation that we could have did it. Did it mess up the pacing? Did it take away some of the sense of urgency racing towards the the sector seven tower or the tech sector seven, plate collapse? Yeah. Okay. We can talk about that. Let's talk about the pacing, the sense of urgency that it might have removed.

00:54:04:09 - 00:54:21:23
Droogle
But I do not think people would have been okay with that chunk of the game just being a run through. Not and I think that's something we need to keep in mind is they are they are not just doing a 1 to 1 pre-rendered background. The pre-rendered background remake, this is this is a 1 to 1 scale of the world.

00:54:21:23 - 00:54:46:24
Droogle
They are recreating the story. And they're also trying to give us a lot of what our nostalgia glasses don't remember. And I replayed Final Fantasy seven OG before and after remake. And especially when you play it again after remake, you realize who were Jesse, who were bigs, who are wedge? They're almost nobody. Like they really have almost no character element.

00:54:46:25 - 00:55:16:20
Droogle
There's really no connection to be had with those characters. And I mean, I'm speaking for myself here, but I know when remake, I loved all three of them, especially Jesse, and I couldn't believe how much the character they added to that. And then they even capitalized on it further and rebirth, as we might discuss with emotional gut punch when it comes to the loss of those three characters, I don't think by today's standards, I don't think we would have been okay with any of that pacing in the original coming through and remake.

00:55:16:23 - 00:55:38:24
Evan
Question about just the nature of imagination when it comes to remakes and that length of time, because you mentioned the game journey was one of your favorite games, and that's one of the prominent games that comes to mind for me when it comes to just letting you use your imagination and expression for what characters mean, especially as you're being led by another character and different things like that.

00:55:38:24 - 00:55:56:06
Evan
It really is an interesting experience. If you haven't ever played the game, maybe shoot, you can describe a little bit about what you like about that game and kind of what I'm talking about. you mentioned it being one of your favorites, but as you've grown up, like we did, insert a lot of imagination into the gaps of some of these things from our past.

00:55:56:06 - 00:56:10:22
Evan
And so now you can't get away with that as much. And some of these big Triple-A games, they have to really show and allow you to experience it. Because we just had these little gaps and mysteries that we were we were more okay with shooting. What do you what do you think about that when it comes to remake?

00:56:10:22 - 00:56:19:15
Evan
And what do you think that role of imagination has in these games, especially as it comes to these kind of revisiting of these things that have meant so much to us in the past?

00:56:19:18 - 00:56:48:05
Shoop
So I think especially when it comes to remaking rebirth, obviously the people who are making these games are giving you what they feel they wanted to be able to give you in 1997, that they just did not have the hardware to do so. So when when we grow up with when we start with a video game, when we're young and it's very limited.

00:56:48:05 - 00:57:09:15
Shoop
So you fill in the gaps in your own right, whatever it is that is canon to you and to your imagination. When somebody who makes the games tries to fill in those gaps themselves with much more broader experience and much more broader ideas that they wanted to do years ago, and then they hand it to you, and then you've already got your own headcanon.

00:57:09:17 - 00:57:28:26
Shoop
Not everybody's gonna be happy. Like what drew was saying, hey, I and I guess I'll touch on like, what the remake of nine would be. there are certain things in nine, for example, that I feel like you can't leave out if you remake it. There are certain moments in nine that I also feel like are kind of like blazed over like, well, hold on, shouldn't be this.

00:57:28:27 - 00:57:49:19
Shoop
Let's be a little bit more important. I've already cooked up something on my head that would make this scene better. Now why didn't they shoot? You know, and I think and I was like, what drew was saying about about Jesse and Biggs and Wade. Nobody gave two shakes about them until the remake because they weren't anybody and they were given story.

00:57:49:19 - 00:57:54:03
Shoop
They were given real story other than just a report of avalanche.

00:57:54:05 - 00:58:11:18
Wade
By their high, high, high. Yeah, they're in the first five hours of the game. Right. And I mean, this is a real story for me. I shared it on stream one time, but like in the original game in 1997, I played through it. And I've played through Final Fantasy seven original every year since I got to 13 years old.

00:58:11:18 - 00:58:19:19
Wade
Right. And so when I first met Jesse, and every year after that, when I would play through the Midgar section.

00:58:19:19 - 00:58:21:03
Droogle
I know exactly what you're going to say right now.

00:58:21:04 - 00:58:25:27
Wade
I thought that her hair was a cowboy hat, and I thought it was a cowboy.

00:58:25:27 - 00:58:27:05
Droogle
I thought you thought it was a boy, right?

00:58:27:11 - 00:58:28:29
Wade
I thought it was include a cowboy.

00:58:29:00 - 00:58:30:00
Droogle
He was a boy.

00:58:30:03 - 00:58:46:28
Wade
And. Right. Yeah. Because, like, as great as the graphics were, they still were not great. Right. And so I'm like, looking at that, I'm like, that's really funny. Why do they make why they make him a cowboy? Because I knew a real Jesse who was a guy in my life. And, it was just funny. And so we're not really.

00:58:47:00 - 00:58:47:27
Evan
Going to fall.

00:58:48:00 - 00:58:53:21
Wade
Into play. Yeah. it's a macho rodeo, right? I.

00:58:53:27 - 00:58:57:19
Shoop
I couldn't tell if Aerith was wearing pants. I thought for the longest time that Gareth is wearing pants.

00:58:57:19 - 00:59:03:24
Wade
I thought it was a little pantsuit. Like a little Hillary Clinton getup or something. Like. Like, okay, I there. I thought.

00:59:03:24 - 00:59:06:05
Shoop
She was wearing little Jenko jeans, but they were pink.

00:59:06:08 - 00:59:07:15
Droogle
And I.

00:59:07:18 - 00:59:08:29
Wade
Yeah, exactly.

00:59:09:02 - 00:59:32:24
Droogle
Ironically, I don't know if you've seen this, but Nomura was interviewed this week about, I would say, some of this directly, and he talked about nostalgia and he talked about people's head cannons and their their memories of these games and how it's it's hard to make something today and sort of reconcile people's memories with what the reality is, because I can tell you and I do not want to get in the shipping wars.

00:59:32:24 - 00:59:55:08
Droogle
I'll preface that. But I will say, I think a lot of people, they look back on the original. And first off, I think like people think that Tifa and Aerith are like in competition with each other, like the not not. And then you go back and play the game. There's only one moment in the entire game that I can't really remember where there was any sort of tension, and it was when they're in the cells of the Shinra headquarters and, and, and TiVo's like, oh, I see about like the date thing.

00:59:55:08 - 01:00:12:00
Droogle
That's like the one moment where I feel like she perked up, like, ooh, what's going on here? Otherwise, no, not at all. And I love that. In Remake and Rebirth, they complete took that and spun it, and people are upset about it in some way now for some reason. But they're like girl power all the way. I was friends, supporting each other, having each other's backs.

01:00:12:00 - 01:00:27:08
Droogle
Aerith never had a girlfriend before, like a girlfriend in that way, right? Like a friend who's a girl with, like to the power round with and Tifa the neither. Exactly. So now it's like these two are fighting each other and are finding a friend that they've never had before. And I think it's beautiful. I love it about remake and rebirth.

01:00:27:08 - 01:00:50:10
Droogle
That's the relationship that these two have. But there's a lot about the original that I don't think people, unless they replay it now. I don't think they have the right memory of it, and I don't blame them either. Like these, these games in their heads, like, I know specifically with like shadow of the Colossus, let's say, for example, to jump to a completely different game, but something that released in two era.

01:00:50:10 - 01:01:05:21
Droogle
So a remake of it is not that far in a way different, right? But when you play the remake of shadow of the Colossus, if you haven't played the original in a long time, you might be like, yeah, this is kind of what it always looked like, right? Like, yeah, this is. But then you go back and you play the original and you're like.

01:01:05:24 - 01:01:07:07
Wade
It's like, oh no, this is again. Yeah.

01:01:07:08 - 01:01:09:03
Droogle
No, it was not this is not what it was.

01:01:09:04 - 01:01:24:03
Shoop
My biggest thing with the whole like Tifa era thing. I will say is like, you can and we talk about this all the time. Being online in general is that tone through text is non-existent. Like you can say some good.

01:01:24:04 - 01:01:24:28
Wade
Great.

01:01:25:00 - 01:01:48:12
Shoop
Yeah, you can. You can say something in a written form and it can come off completely different. If there is no like if there's no tone to it. Yeah. So people are reading, there was no voice acting and 97 people are reading dialog and they're interpreting it in the tone that they hear in their head. And now with remake, we get we get to hear the tone of people's voice.

01:01:48:13 - 01:01:54:22
Shoop
We get to hear their confidence. We get to hear their doubts. We get to hear their joy. We get to hear their fear through their tone.

01:01:54:24 - 01:02:19:03
Droogle
That especially applies to Red 13, right? Right. Because I I've seen a lot of people upset, upset, upset about this. They've read Thirteen's voice changes. Once you read Cosmo Canyon, I will say personally, I always kind of felt that right. I feel like they did a pretty good job in the original. Have there being a change in Red 13 and the way he speaks textually when you reach Cosmo Canyon, but I think a lot of people didn't really expect that.

01:02:19:10 - 01:02:37:21
Droogle
So when it happens in rebirth, I think people are like seemingly dismayed that, like his gruff, cool voice went away. But I was like, yes, they did it. Like they actually did what I always thought was the case. Like, he's just a young pup, almost in a way. So when his voice changes, that's something they could only do now because of the voice acting.

01:02:37:23 - 01:02:56:10
Droogle
And, that's a perfect example like that. You know, we've read these, these games back then. We make up our own voices in our heads, which is great. It's a it's a positive in some ways of those old games, but it also allows an opportunity for these new games to to elaborate on that or to kind of change it and, and twist it in a way we didn't expect.

01:02:56:13 - 01:03:22:05
Shoop
I think another big thing to note, and I've seen this a lot in Final Fantasy online spaces, especially seven online spaces. I've seen a lot of people say the Tifa is very confident and she's not. She has a lot of self-doubt and a lot, a lot of insecurity, and that's not knocking her at all. Hello. That's a no human trait.

01:03:22:08 - 01:03:38:02
Shoop
and and people will say, well, they just like, they can't stand Aerith because of, like, she's too much. And I'm like, but hold on. Didn't you just say, like, Tifa is confident? I'm like, did you even like, intruders? Let's do like, did you even play the game like Eric?

01:03:38:05 - 01:03:39:23
Wade
I get it though. Yeah.

01:03:39:25 - 01:03:58:18
Shoop
A lot of confidence in what she says and how she says it. And Tifa sometimes will self guess herself. But like when it's in written format, if in the original, you can read it in your head, it's like this is a confident statement, even if it might not be, or Aerith might come off as a lot more meeker or shy when you're reading it, but it's not.

01:03:58:20 - 01:04:32:19
Droogle
This came out in the in the interview this week. And I think that's that's great that you recognize that because it's something that Nomura called it memory distortion. in the interview recently. And it's exactly what it is, is we remember these games, and especially now when we look at them visually, it further distorts our memory because from a visual standpoint, you would expect Tifa to be the badass, confident, sure of herself one, you would look at areas and expect her to be the eerie, flighty, angelic, you know, pixie fairy girl that is the archetype.

01:04:32:22 - 01:04:58:22
Droogle
But the truth is that Tifa is very unsure of herself. She has a really hard time speaking up. She's a people pleaser, whereas Aerith is the one who is going to speak up and be sassy and spunky and put cloud in this place. And and I think it's the exact opposite. And it was intentional, too, right? Because when Nomura was designing Aerith, the whole point of her character design was not to be, oh, she's wearing pink because act like pink.

01:04:58:28 - 01:05:21:21
Droogle
No retcon. The true intention of Aerith when she was designed was to be a foil for cloud. It was to be the contrast of cloud. Tifa wasn't even supposed to exist. Tifa was pulled away from ERA and created as a character later on to be dual heroines. That's like completely changes your perspective when you look at it that way, and I think it's amazing thing they did.

01:05:21:21 - 01:05:43:21
Droogle
I love that they did that. First off, it creates a beautiful love triangle and love is this really complex thing, and I wish people would look at it that way, that you can love more than one person, but also it allowed for for you have these two women that play off of cloud in different ways, and are both very important to him in different ways, and help him in very different ways.

01:05:43:23 - 01:06:04:22
Shoop
Aerith reminds me. Aerith reminds me of like the parent who rather than like getting their kids feet wet, like trying to teach them how to swim, we'll just push them in the water. And Tifa is a lot more nurturing and she'll like baby step you into like, toes first, or put on your life as like, be careful. And er, it's like, bye, go swim.

01:06:04:28 - 01:06:07:00
Droogle
There's a reason Tifa is very maternal. I mean.

01:06:07:02 - 01:06:37:08
Shoop
She's very maternal. They have they both have incredible qualities that balance out what helps cloud come out of of whatever shell that he has become. But it's hard to when it comes to the Final Fantasy seven version of that. It's hard to see that when when typically. No offense Final Fantasy seven fans, but when you're looking at certain characters through these rose colored glasses based on which one you prefer, Tifa or Aerith, it doesn't have to be Tifa or Aerith.

01:06:37:08 - 01:06:43:12
Shoop
It can be both. And the remake, and especially rebirth, gives us both.

01:06:43:14 - 01:07:15:11
Wade
To something that does come up in the interview that, drew you, you've mentioned a couple of times now. it's it's kind of an interesting I don't really want to call it a cop out because I don't feel like that's what it is. But I know a lot of people are saying this is. But it's this idea at the end of rebirth, when Sephiroth is guiding cloud through all of these myriad worlds, Nomura says something to the extent of this is a nod to all of those head canons, but also that of all the possibilities.

01:07:15:11 - 01:07:33:23
Wade
All of them do exist. But what I love that that they seem to be doing is they're saying, yeah, in our imagination, all of these things do kind of exist, but we're telling this one particular story, and that's definitely going to ruffle some feathers in part three. I think in this.

01:07:33:28 - 01:07:44:23
Droogle
Sort of like please everybody type comment, right? Like, hey, the Final Fantasy seven of your dreams exists. It's out there somewhere. You know, it's nice. it's a nice you know, it's a nice idea. I mean.

01:07:44:25 - 01:08:20:26
Wade
It's the idea of like, does the original exist in this continuity and therefore, you know, for those that say, yeah, this is a sequel to that. Well, okay, that's fair for those who are like, this is a remake of that. Sure. Fine. And it's like the way that you make sense of all of this matters now when it comes to I think that there can be discussions of authorial intent, the creators design and intention behind a story, like what were they intending that no level of subjective observation is really going to, you know, you can't overtake that.

01:08:21:03 - 01:08:43:00
Wade
But what what we see, on screen or in game or whatever, you know, that's that's what we do have to say. There's a concept. And then I'd love to hear your thoughts on some specifics and rebirth. There's a concept, in, whether you're viewing something or reading something that we call reading, and it's the idea that you are reading into something a little too much.

01:08:43:00 - 01:09:03:09
Wade
Right? you're projecting your own biases, prejudices, preferences, whatever it is, into a text. And so I'm the master of ever reading because as a religious studies guy, I'm looking through the lens of religious studies and myth into everything, even if it doesn't exist. I'm like, oh, that's neat. And you know, somebody would say, a cigar is just a cigar.

01:09:03:10 - 01:09:32:00
Wade
Wait. It's like, but let's go to the deeper meaning, right? I've got my whiteboard and all the strands. But when it comes to rebirth, I think that there's so much ambiguity to what could happen, certainly with remake, that they're trying to invite and emulate for a new day, that level of imagination, because you don't have the same opportunity for imagination and creativity and hyper realistic spaces that you did back in the day.

01:09:32:06 - 01:09:49:20
Wade
You know, I would always think of what what would Barret and Red talk about as they went from Midgar to calm? Because I was always cloud, Tifa, Aerith on my way to calm. What would that other party think about? And now they're kind of telling us when they split up. These are the things they talk about and stuff.

01:09:49:22 - 01:10:07:29
Wade
So they're still giving us this opportunity to imagine in between these installments. When it comes to the ambiguities of rebirth and some of the big mysteries, particularly, what made you most curious and what really worked for you in rebirth?

01:10:07:29 - 01:10:29:28
Droogle
I think I think it's incredibly intentional what they're doing in so many different facets of rebirth. I think that they know what gets people talking. I think that they know, especially with it being a multi-part series, that having a level of ambiguity is going to allow for those two to 3 to 4 years in between games to be filled with theory, crafting and all this.

01:10:30:00 - 01:10:49:19
Droogle
I love it. Personally, I love that I'm thinking about this game every day since rebirth, wondering what they're going to do next. The just even the littlest things like the very end where Cloud and Aerith have their last conversation in the church and based on your affection level, how that can be different, right? And it's such a subtle change.

01:10:49:19 - 01:11:11:26
Droogle
Right? But it's the way, you know, Aerith talks him about another date and Cloud's very subtle difference and responsive. Yeah. Why not? Versus, I'm trying to draw the the other quote of mine, but it was more like a yes course next time. Yeah, yeah. And with like a smile. And it's these two very different reactions, right, that allow the fanbase to go crazy over.

01:11:11:26 - 01:11:22:17
Droogle
Oh, what did it mean? Like, what is he saying here? But of course, like the overarching mysteries, I say the big one. Do we want to talk about Eric's death?

01:11:22:20 - 01:11:27:19
Wade
everything. Yes we will. Yeah. This is full spoilers, I think. Yeah.

01:11:27:22 - 01:11:49:22
Droogle
I think it's genius what they did. Honestly, I think it's incredibly genius there. We've been talking about it for years, ever since remake was announced. How are they going to handle Eric's death? And I knew they were never going to do a 1 to 1. I was like, from the moment this is there's no way it's either going to be that they change it entirely or they give a nugget of hope they're going to do something right.

01:11:49:26 - 01:12:18:20
Droogle
But what they do is actually beyond my magic. Because they kind of did the cake and eat it to take a moment where it's like they still they still did it, but she's still dead, right? But they completely changed the perspective of it by putting us in Cloud's head like never before. And I would argue that the end of rebirth is so much more tragic than the original game ever was, and I agree, I think two people are so upset that they didn't show the burial.

01:12:18:23 - 01:12:45:21
Droogle
And yeah, it's a tough pill to swallow right? To not give us that closure at the end of rebirth. We just witnessed this death or did we? And then you're not going to give us any closure with a burial. But it's so intentional in my head, at least it's so intentional that they did that. Because from the moment he goes to her right after she died and she opens her eyes and he says her name like Aerith and he seems so positive, flash away.

01:12:45:25 - 01:13:05:05
Droogle
We're looking at the lake where anybody who is a diehard Final Fantasy seven fan would know this is where they buried her, but we're not seeing it. Cloud is staring out with no emotion whatsoever, and everybody else seems to be completely sullen and in pieces. The clouds just staring out. And I just. I thought it was such an effective moment and eerie.

01:13:05:05 - 01:13:26:26
Droogle
And it made me so uncomfortable. When he turns to her and sees her shrouded in sort of a shadow. And there's like this eerie version of the of the livestream music that plays as he's looking at her, and especially when they're leaving and Tifa is looking at him and sees him look to nobody that is there, smiles and then walks away.

01:13:26:28 - 01:13:34:17
Droogle
I thought that was chilling. Honestly though, the way that Tifa is the only one that noticed it. Like there's something very wrong.

01:13:34:20 - 01:13:34:24
Shoop
With.

01:13:34:25 - 01:13:35:06
Wade
Cloud.

01:13:35:10 - 01:13:36:08
Shoop
For now. He's really.

01:13:36:08 - 01:14:10:20
Droogle
Yeah. And and it allows them an amazing opportunity here because anybody that's played the original game knows how important Tifa is to cloud and to his reconstruction. Rebirth was Eric's game. It was made to be his game and it deserved to be. They did it. They did it well. Tifa was going to have her moment and it's going to be huge in the next game, but it's going to be so much more layered than it was in the original, because it's not just about helping cloud realize who he is, it's about revealing the truth to him, having him accept it, realize that you've failed.

01:14:10:23 - 01:14:30:08
Droogle
But hey, also, you're a hero at the same time. Like there's there's so many layers of cloud, right? He doesn't even know what he did for Tifa all those years ago. He doesn't remember that right now. He doesn't even, I think, realize it. That Aerith is dead. I don't think he's processed what has happened. So imagine that moment in part three.

01:14:30:08 - 01:14:48:04
Droogle
If they do it, or Tifa is bringing him through the livestream to these moments from the past, the tower noble him. But now also imagine in that scene where there's three different places you can go to. There's an extra one now, one that wasn't there before, and it's the lake from. And you have to see that moment and you have to play it.

01:14:48:07 - 01:15:16:04
Droogle
Imagine if you control cloud walking into the water with Aerith in his arms. Imagine that you have to be the one that does it. Imagine how powerful that could be. Everybody's so upset that it was removed. But you're not thinking about that. This is three parts. You're not thinking about how powerful that moment could be if you are in control of it, if you are in Cloud's head space, in that moment when he has to accept what has happened, they have an opportunity to do something so much better than the original in my mind.

01:15:16:07 - 01:15:17:14
Droogle
But they have to do it.

01:15:17:20 - 01:15:29:12
Evan
So yeah, should be said that you agreed that it was more tragic what comes to mind for you around that idea that the way that they've chosen to tell the story is more tragic? What are your thoughts?

01:15:29:14 - 01:15:57:07
Shoop
I mean, I've already spoken about some of my personal trauma, but like it it's very realistic. And for anyone who's ever been through sudden trauma, I think can relate to denial is not just like, oh my God, I can't believe they're gone. It really, especially in a sudden traumatic moment like that. It's very realistic to what it feels like that it is not real.

01:15:57:09 - 01:16:23:03
Shoop
Absolute denial. And I think seeing cloud especially like and something I saw this on Twitter ages ago and I think it popped up recently because people are yelling about Tifa, Aerith shipping. but that if you notice, is it's the to Nova life clinger fight right after Aerith dies, which drew y'all need to see him crying through that.

01:16:23:03 - 01:16:43:27
Shoop
It was so hard. Anybody who ever tries to get through that fight without tears, I think is a psychopath. but cloud doesn't have his limit break. Everybody else in the party does completely fold. Their limit break is completely full because they are experiencing rage. They didn't. They didn't really hit the whole denial wall. They might have been like there.

01:16:43:28 - 01:17:17:08
Shoop
Oh no. Any way. But they were angry. They went straight to raid to a stream to fight with everybody with the limit break except for cloud. His bar is completely empty and we see, you know, obviously you're fighting with your party, but then also when you're when you're fighting Sephiroth, Aerith come in, comes in and joins him. And I really feel like internally that's a big part of him doing whatever his subconscious can do to keep her in this with him, not just mentally and not just emotionally.

01:17:17:08 - 01:17:37:12
Shoop
Not in my heart, but like here, whatever. He can cook up physically to keep her here with him. And it's I mean, God, it really tore me up. I'm trying not to cry, but it tore me up when there was that moment, that sliver of hope, not just for cloud, but for the, the, the person playing the game and anyone watching the game.

01:17:37:12 - 01:18:08:11
Shoop
Because again, I was watching this, I was moderating for drew and he played it on release. and. Watching that sliver of hope and thinking, oh, he might have actually saved her. Like he might be changing the timeline or whatever. And then that just gets ripped away from you. That is what sudden trauma feels like. Yeah. When you feel this isn't real, but it's ripped away from you so quickly and then there is nothing you can do to stop it.

01:18:08:13 - 01:18:12:03
Shoop
You don't just say, okay, that happened, you know?

01:18:12:03 - 01:18:15:25
Droogle
But there's enough ambiguity there, right there to go with what you're saying.

01:18:15:25 - 01:18:36:19
Shoop
Question yourself. But that is what trauma is. That is what Centrum is. It's you start questioning. Yeah. Everything like this doesn't make sense. How could this happen? This isn't right. The fallacy is to go on in your head of right and wrong like it's. And to be able to really see it, I don't care. I'm sorry to anybody who was like that ending was trash.

01:18:36:26 - 01:18:56:28
Shoop
If you have not experienced your own sudden trauma, I don't want to hear it. I've seen in I've seen games, several games try to depict what sudden trauma feels like. I think that they did it so well, giving us Cloud's perspective too much.

01:18:57:00 - 01:19:07:12
Droogle
At the same time though, like, I want to put myself in the headspace of those that don't like the end. And I do get it because there is certainly an unsatisfying impact to that. Right?

01:19:07:17 - 01:19:21:12
Shoop
And just as unsatisfying if you had it as the exact same scene as the original. And you know darn well that if they had done exactly what they did in 1997. Little stabby stabby. Oh, no. Anyway, let's go bury her. People would have been like, they could.

01:19:21:12 - 01:19:22:15
Wade
Have done so much.

01:19:22:15 - 01:19:43:19
Droogle
I agree, I agree with that. But people, they don't know that until they see it. Right? So people wanted a want people that wanted a 1 to 1 or at least wanted closure in some sense. Like I get it because in their head that that doesn't matter. That given that they might have been unsatisfied anyway, the fact is they weren't given it and that's all they care about, that it wasn't 1 to 1 and they weren't given it.

01:19:43:19 - 01:20:04:15
Droogle
But also going back to what you're saying, Noctis, it's very intentional, right? Because there's enough there so clearly that they want us to wonder if the Earth we're seeing at the end is entirely necessary and it's subconscious. Is it Aerith from the live stream? Is it here from another reality? Is it Jenova like, you know, like there's so many possibilities on who that Aerith could be.

01:20:04:22 - 01:20:22:10
Droogle
I think we have to wait till part three to see it all reconciled. And it could be the multiple of those are true at the same time in some sense. And I would argue myself that the Earth that we see at the very end of seven OG coming from the live stream, like, how would it really be that much different really in the end anyway?

01:20:22:10 - 01:20:43:14
Droogle
Like if, if what? Whether it's multiple realities or the live stream or multiple realities represents the life stream, right? Right. Like the live stream, that's what it could be. The live stream could be everything all at once. Death, life, rebirth all at once. Right? So there's no reason that they couldn't reconcile it in the final game. To explain that live stream is everything.

01:20:43:18 - 01:20:44:02
Wade
Well.

01:20:44:04 - 01:21:03:09
Evan
Wait, I wonder, as we talk about this, if it's important to distinguish some of the storytelling aspects and how we form our opinions? Because we've talked in other episodes about really understanding how we feel about something. And then you talk about this with your students a lot. Let's understand that we feel this way about it. Now. Let's try and break it down.

01:21:03:09 - 01:21:27:12
Evan
And I think it's probably fair to say that the story at the end of rebirth is unresolved, right? Like like it is it it is part two of a three part thing. It is unresolved now, agreeing that it's unresolved and because it's unresolved, that feels unsatisfying or it's unresolved. And then now I'm satisfied with the hope that they're going to be able to tie it up.

01:21:27:16 - 01:21:40:17
Evan
It creates a pathway to really try and understand why it is that we either liked or didn't like it, and whether we feel like it accomplished its goals as a stepping stone. And we won't know for sure until the third game. But I know that you and your students talk about that frequently.

01:21:40:17 - 01:22:03:08
Wade
But yeah, we do. And I think that for most of us, especially today in online discourse and in personal lives, we we do gravitate towards certainty rather than mystery. we do this in our religions or politics, and we do this with our Final Fantasy as well. And so and it creates the tribes with which we associate.

01:22:03:08 - 01:22:26:15
Wade
So I am certain that this happens. And so whenever they're not giving us those clear answers or a lack of closure, because it's part two of three, then we we try to wrestle some certainty from it. And sometimes that certainty creates some or lack of certainty creates some cognitive dissonance that makes us say, I don't like this anymore.

01:22:26:18 - 01:22:47:19
Wade
This isn't the story that I wanted in especially, you know, final thing, we can talk about this earlier, but like when we have a story that has meant so much to so many people, this helped me get through this part of my life. I it was a coming of age sort of moment for me as I played through this game in 97, or when I discovered it, like these people were in my life.

01:22:47:21 - 01:23:14:27
Wade
To play with that and not have the same emotional payoffs feels like anathema to us. It feels like you have done something violently offensive to me, at this point. And I think that that's kind of the point, weirdly. And, you know, it strikes me, you know, we all have our impression and interpretation of the original FF7 in that moment, climactic moment, with Aerith.

01:23:14:29 - 01:23:46:05
Wade
So are they just going to replay that nostalgia bait in some ways, or are they helping us relive it again? One thing that that, occurred to me in y'all's comments was, this idea of Aerith continuing in, in Cloud's mind beyond her death at the end of Advent Children. Sephiroth, before he's vanquished, says, I will never be a memory, right?

01:23:46:07 - 01:24:10:29
Wade
And it strikes me that in this retelling, in some ways, Aerith is giving the counter to that, saying, I will never be, I will never just be a memory to you, but I will be with you in this way, because it almost seemed with Advent Children that it's just this constant cycle of struggle and suffering. And here we have the perfect foil to that with.

01:24:11:01 - 01:24:38:05
Wade
But there's also hope, and that's not going to leave you as well, I wonder, with your experience of rebirth and playing it and watching it, the moments of struggle, the moments of hope and the tension there with you. What are the standout moments of the game that you're like this. This is an amazing way of telling this story that's going to stick with me about struggle and hope.

01:24:38:05 - 01:24:40:19
Wade
Where did you see those two things in rebirth?

01:24:40:25 - 01:24:41:28
Shoop
Can I go first?

01:24:42:03 - 01:24:42:29
Droogle
Yeah, please go ahead.

01:24:43:03 - 01:24:48:10
Shoop
Because it's a part. It's the part that ruined me emotionally.

01:24:48:12 - 01:24:48:29
Wade
Okay.

01:24:49:02 - 01:24:56:15
Shoop
But gave me that hope. and it was during the trials, during Eric's trial.

01:24:56:17 - 01:24:58:20
Wade
What was it about that trial? Yeah.

01:24:58:22 - 01:25:26:02
Shoop
Oh my God. Okay, so first of all, for anyone, I'm sure, I'm sure most people consuming this content have played rebirth. so for anyone who hasn't, basically, Aerith goes to this trial of her mother's death. And, and if Elena is very sickly, but it starts, it starts her trial starts with hope. It's it's these bright lights and flowers lighting up as they're on the train.

01:25:26:04 - 01:25:54:25
Shoop
And if Elena's telling Aerith that we're going to go on a trip together and giving Aerith hope, and then when the train stations and if Elena is basically dying on the ground at the train station and little Aerith is, you know, basically sent to try and go find help, and she's going through the streets and trying to find anybody that will help her and most of the people that she walks up to on the street, on the street, heckle her and treat her like crap, like,

01:25:54:27 - 01:26:23:08
Shoop
And one person finds her and says, do you need help? And and it's so sad watching Aerith little little baby Aerith get all emotional, but like little baby Aerith trying to go to the street saying, does anybody have a doctor? Is there a doctor? Yeah. and it's it's sad. You know what? We don't really get that drawn out in the original Final Fantasy seven.

01:26:23:10 - 01:26:32:07
Shoop
And to make that bigger was, I think, much needed, first of all, so we can better understand Arin's background. but.

01:26:32:10 - 01:26:37:26
Wade
Doesn't that re-emphasize just that theme of of loss and grief? so you.

01:26:37:26 - 01:26:39:21
Shoop
Don't she had to grow up so quickly.

01:26:39:26 - 01:27:03:16
Wade
Right? You don't get the water alter burial in this game. You don't get the full sequence, but you still capture that same theme of of grief and loss. And yet the one person of peace and hope that comes into that moment of grief and loss. I think that that's a beautiful way of telling it. Without spoiling, this other part, that they wanted to make more of a mystery.

01:27:03:16 - 01:27:04:14
Wade
I think that's why,

01:27:04:16 - 01:27:25:25
Shoop
They gave her one little glimmer of hope, and it was just the one person on the street who was like, what can I do to help you? And if fall and it tells her, take Aerith, you have to protect Aerith. And it said Aerith still had one person complete stranger at this point, obviously, who later became her adoptive mother, but complete stranger who was willing to give Aerith a chance.

01:27:25:27 - 01:27:46:29
Wade
And you know I do. I want to hear yours in a second, but you've just made me think about something for part three. I wonder if we're going to get the full recounting of what happened at the altar to Elmira, because we don't really get that. You can go back to the house and there's a bit of a conversation, but they don't know one more.

01:27:47:00 - 01:27:49:12
Shoop
Like right to tell Elmira what actually happened.

01:27:49:12 - 01:27:51:27
Wade
And grieving and all of that stuff. And like Marlene.

01:27:51:27 - 01:27:52:25
Shoop
Is she was a mother to.

01:27:53:00 - 01:28:01:20
Wade
Them. Right. And so I think, wow, that that's going to be an amazingly powerful and potent moment. You're just another example of grief and loss.

01:28:01:27 - 01:28:22:13
Shoop
Yeah, I feel like I think it would be incredible to put that in there because it's one of the, I think, difficult loss and grief stories that you can really portray. Is a parent having to lose their child like that is, you know, that's probably one of the most painful things you can go through. Yeah. And Elmira took that was that was that was her daughter Aerith with her daughter.

01:28:22:13 - 01:28:30:19
Shoop
At the end of the day, yes, she was following his biological child and with that, her young childhood with her. But at the end of the day, Elmira raised that girl and protected that girl until the very end.

01:28:30:24 - 01:28:53:02
Wade
When the same way Barrett's doing with Marlene. Right? And that's why when he hears Elmira say, well, she's not my daughter, it kind of pans to Barrett and remake, and he kind of goes home and we discover, if you're playing through this for the first time, you're realizing, you know, Barrett is not Marlene's, birth father. Right. And so, I wonder what their dynamic would be.

01:28:53:02 - 01:29:05:19
Wade
And I wonder if you can almost see Barrett breaking the news to Elmira and then to his own daughter. You know, just to see that sort of conveyance of of loss. I'm curious about it. I'm.

01:29:05:19 - 01:29:11:13
Shoop
Wondering if drew is actually going to talk about Barrett. Yeah. More as far as a goes and what they built off of that.

01:29:11:13 - 01:29:17:23
Wade
Yeah. Drew, what what moment stood out for you and what are your thoughts?

01:29:17:26 - 01:29:26:16
Droogle
I mean, all the trials, not just arts were. Yeah, brutal, in my opinion. And I've actually seen some opinions that they were actually too much. I've seen some of.

01:29:26:19 - 01:29:28:05
Shoop
The threads was really hard, really.

01:29:28:05 - 01:29:47:25
Droogle
Heavy. But I think I think in particular Arats I think was by far the heaviest. They really make you live in that moment to have you actually walk Aerith around searching to help, having people reject her, throw her to the ground, like have her having her walk back as well, crying, saying I need help. Like that was a lot.

01:29:47:28 - 01:30:07:22
Droogle
they put a lot on the player there in that moment, and it was very intentional. And I go back to my point here that this is Eric's game. in my opinion, it is 100 and Eric's game and I think what they're really trying to portray here, and I think immediately after that in temple of the ancients and the conversation that follows or supposed to look at and think, here is how the heck did this girl turn out the way she did?

01:30:07:28 - 01:30:26:22
Droogle
Like she's a miracle. She's an absolute miracle that she went through everything she went through, and is still the glue that holds this team together because she is she what her mission is. And nobody says it in the game. But they all know it. They all know that Aerith is the reason that they are together. They're the reason that they're held together.

01:30:26:25 - 01:30:40:29
Droogle
They all look at her that way. You can see it. You can honestly see it throughout the game how important she is to that. And that's why her death, I think, weighs on the whole party the way it does because of how meaningful she is to all of them in the short time that she's been with them.

01:30:41:01 - 01:30:46:06
Shoop
There's even one that Redwood talk to in his and his real voice. Excuse me before.

01:30:46:06 - 01:31:08:10
Droogle
Yeah, it's very beginning. Was a nice touch, too, because they they understand each other in a way that I think a lot of people didn't in that moment because of the Lifestream connection that they had. So I was I loved that they were able to elaborate on her meaning to the party throughout the game. And also, I think a moment that was really powerful for me was in The Gold Saucer.

01:31:08:10 - 01:31:29:01
Droogle
When she sings Promises to Keep, which there's a lot of interpretations to that song, it seems like the writer is and is saying that really is about everybody, the bands that she has encountered through her life, but especially in the story that we are witnessing, that how important all these party members are. Because she didn't have this before, she never had this.

01:31:29:01 - 01:31:42:06
Droogle
And it goes back to Remick as well. When you're in the train graveyard and her trauma is being left alone in that scene, all these boys and girls playing hide and seek and and she felt alone in that moment. That cloud finds her, typifies her, actually.

01:31:42:06 - 01:31:43:00
Wade
Right.

01:31:43:03 - 01:32:04:00
Droogle
and, I think we're kind of following up with that in rebirth about her, her fear of being alone. and, and this, this journey that she goes on finally being able to leave Midgar and see the world and a world that she didn't expect. Right when she sees it for the first time, she's blown away like, oh my God, it it it has so much life.

01:32:04:00 - 01:32:17:29
Droogle
Like, I wasn't expecting this. She was fearful of the world prior to that. When you first leave Midgar, she says, the steel sky. I miss it, and there's a lot of reasons for that. I think one of them being that it shielded her from from seeing the life stream and the souls going up, up into the, into the atmosphere.

01:32:17:29 - 01:32:36:10
Droogle
But I think it also was a fear of of of what was out there, a fear of the unknown. And this, this game is er, it's game because it allows her to almost, it's almost like a bucket list for her. This game throughout the whole. Yeah. It feels there's, there's an ominous tone into the game in my opinion.

01:32:36:15 - 01:32:59:15
Droogle
It's, it's again a sort of like a final facing line thing where it's contrasted with a very light, joyful journey. Right? Like there they go through theme parks almost. Yeah. Whether it be the crew or Gold Saucer or like it's supposed to contrast, though, with what the eventuality is of her story. Anybody who knows the story knows where it's heading, and she knows where it's headed.

01:32:59:18 - 01:33:19:18
Droogle
You know this. She does. You can tell that she knows her fate, but she powers through all of it. And, and I think that song is a sort of almost like a goodbye in a way. But it also, I think, would really hit me in that moment that I wasn't expecting was what happened to the audience. And Jessie Biggs and Wedge were there.

01:33:19:18 - 01:33:22:24
Droogle
Right. And it kind of connected it all for me.

01:33:22:24 - 01:33:24:03
Shoop
I was like, not your first tier.

01:33:24:07 - 01:33:41:06
Droogle
That was my first time. I think I cried in. Yeah, that that hit me really hard for some reason. I think partially because it was confirmation that they're going, that we had to accept it in that moment that, yes, they are truly gone. but it also was this connective tissue, right, of like what the livestream is and how nobody's ever truly gone.

01:33:41:13 - 01:33:50:03
Droogle
Right. and a major theme throughout the game and the series, I would argue so that that really connected with me.

01:33:50:05 - 01:34:13:03
Wade
This is, I'm so glad you brought that up. and there's been so many things that you've mentioned about Eric's confidence and about, this sequence with Jesse Biggs and Wedge, in the theater. I think, one critique that I've heard particularly that scene is, did Aerith really know Jesse? Because I went, and I didn't even.

01:34:13:03 - 01:34:14:12
Shoop
Think about that.

01:34:14:14 - 01:34:38:22
Wade
And like, yes, that's that's a fair point. but what I also think that it may do is that, Aerith, you know, whether it's her confidence in the way that she's reacting to things in remake, the kind of fixed, fixed eyes on the goal that she has in rebirth and her relationships with people that she really should know.

01:34:38:29 - 01:35:00:22
Wade
The live stream has been able to give her a sense of family. And going back to that train graveyard scene, these were her friends, right? And she was able to sense them through the live stream. So in some way, even though she hasn't had a great deal of encounters with Jesse Biggs and Wedge, she knows them and she knows the meaning, to the party as well.

01:35:00:29 - 01:35:13:15
Shoop
Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing, is that it at the end of the day, they meant a lot to Tifa. Yeah. And even cloud that she she can. I think Aerith is the perfect example of a spiritual empath.

01:35:13:17 - 01:35:14:23
Wade
Yeah. Oh.

01:35:14:26 - 01:35:26:21
Shoop
She can take on so much around her, whether it be emotions or what have you. And through her connection with the Lifestream, the people that you know, through it.

01:35:26:23 - 01:35:45:13
Wade
It just it just strikes me that, you know, she's singing about the experiences of all of these, her friends. And then she looks up and she sees the friends of her friends, which is kind of an interesting thing, like, hey, I'm, I'm in with them now.

01:35:45:15 - 01:35:48:00
Droogle
And that's what I meant by connective tissue, right? That's that's.

01:35:48:00 - 01:35:48:25
Wade
Really cool.

01:35:48:25 - 01:36:08:28
Droogle
The live stream connects us all and I think, another moment that hit me really hard just prior to that was in the Gold Saucer, when they have the dance sequence of Jesse, which I thought was beautiful and and what happens right after that? You see, you see it depending on your playthrough. And for me, Tifa was in the cloud and so in the crowd and so was was Barrett.

01:36:08:28 - 01:36:26:10
Droogle
But it really hit me hard that Barrett was crying in the crowd there. But that's what I'm talking about, that that's the live stream that Aerith is connecting with, right? She's connecting with her friends and the friends of her friends in that moment, it all comes together. And I think I have to talk about. I think she would be upset with me if I did it.

01:36:26:12 - 01:36:46:01
Droogle
Barrett, and how much I connected with him. I'm a father, you know, whole oh my God, the entire dying sequence. I think there are there are flaws. I will agree there falls, especially at the end of it. I think they move on from it too quickly. There's a little bit of whiplash there, I would agree. But man, everything leading up to that moment, I was a mess.

01:36:46:01 - 01:37:05:24
Droogle
I was an absolute mess and I wasn't in the original game. I have to admit. Like, I don't know why, you know, you know, like I said, I played it before, before remake after remake. I played it before rebirth. I played remake before rebirth. But for some reason in the original, as much as I thought the Dion moment was one of the most powerful moments of the game, it never hit me emotionally in that way.

01:37:05:27 - 01:37:12:17
Droogle
But holy crap, man, when when he sees the picture of her. and I think what I'd like to do with the music to man, the music was so good.

01:37:12:20 - 01:37:12:29
Wade
I mean.

01:37:13:01 - 01:37:36:03
Droogle
I was I was a mess. I was an absolute mess. They found a way I, I rarely cry on stream at games. And I talked about, how at the beginning of this, this discussion, now I've become more vulnerable over time and allowing myself to open up with games, but it's still takes a lot. It still is something that doesn't happen too often where I'm able to, like, really let go and fall apart on stream.

01:37:36:06 - 01:37:41:07
Droogle
And how many times did it happen? This game shape I it had to happen at least six, seven, nine.

01:37:41:08 - 01:37:43:19
Shoop
Dion was the first big crash.

01:37:43:22 - 01:37:45:14
Wade
I I was a mess.

01:37:45:14 - 01:37:50:02
Droogle
In this game. Like I don't know what was going on on me, but I could not stop crying playing this game.

01:37:50:02 - 01:37:50:20
Shoop
I was there's.

01:37:50:20 - 01:37:51:07
Wade
So many times.

01:37:51:07 - 01:38:02:23
Shoop
Seeing if any. I think you have all your VODs saved that you'll eventually upload, but all you see, because of his studio green screen is just like my arm sneak in with like a roll of toilet paper.

01:38:02:26 - 01:38:05:14
Wade
Disembodied arm like, oh gosh.

01:38:05:17 - 01:38:23:09
Shoop
I don't want to leave my PC because it's spoiler moments like this. I don't want some troll coming in and ruining this heavy moment. So I'm like, do I get up and get this man a tissue? He can't breathe like. But I mean, it wouldn't. It was the same thing towards the end. Like the trials fucked him up.

01:38:23:09 - 01:38:31:08
Shoop
Excuse me. the the scene where Aerith actually dies as soon as that materia hits the ground. Yeah, it's like.

01:38:31:11 - 01:38:41:28
Droogle
I was holding it together. I was actually holding it together, I think partially because of the reveal. Right? Like, you have this hope. You have hope, right? Like he's fighting off self wrath. You're like, Holy shirt but we're actually going to do it.

01:38:41:28 - 01:38:46:22
Shoop
Run away from you. You know, there was, there was that was it. He was like, oh, she's gone now.

01:38:46:22 - 01:39:07:04
Droogle
Whenever I listen to music and I hear like the the, you know, chime representing the materia dropping, I start, you know, tearing up immediately. But in the game it did take until Jenova life Clinger happened and erythema materia started up like leading into that battle because anybody who's played the original like that's a that's a amazing moment because they don't go to the original battle music.

01:39:07:04 - 01:39:21:25
Droogle
They keep er it's theme playing throughout Genova. So part of me forgot that, I guess because I was just so soaked up in the moment, so that the moment that it like goes into the battle and the theme begins, I just was like, oh my God, they did it again. And I just fall apart. I just, I fell apart so.

01:39:21:25 - 01:39:23:01
Shoop
Badly was having a allergic.

01:39:23:01 - 01:39:42:16
Droogle
Reaction that I couldn't play the game. I couldn't play the game like I was, you can see I'm getting my asp kicked. Like I'm like, I'm not focusing like, oh, everything is hitting me. I'm taking damage. And it took me a moment to realize, like, I gotta pause this game. So I go into the the assessment screen and I just sit there for probably two minutes listening to the music and just crying.

01:39:42:23 - 01:39:43:01
Wade
Yeah.

01:39:43:03 - 01:39:47:13
Shoop
And then my arm came through the toilet paper again.

01:39:47:15 - 01:39:49:05
Droogle
It was a mess. I was such a mess.

01:39:49:13 - 01:40:05:01
Shoop
You can't I mean, there's there's too much like there's too much particle graphics and such to really see. But like, his whole mustache will just fly me. Like I look over and he finally blows. Snow knows that he like, tries to like read the assessment after like finger and he's just like choking out two words at a time.

01:40:05:01 - 01:40:06:07
Shoop
Reading the assessment, I'm like.

01:40:06:07 - 01:40:07:05
Wade
Oh my goodness, you.

01:40:07:05 - 01:40:08:17
Shoop
Need a minute to breathe.

01:40:08:18 - 01:40:11:11
Wade
Like, yeah.

01:40:11:13 - 01:40:30:03
Shoop
But it's that's the thing about like, I don't I mean, I get it like some people say like, oh, we didn't need a remake. We didn't want a remake. Well that's great. You know what? You can still play the original whenever you want. It's not going anywhere. But for people who really wanted to see what else Square Enix can cook up.

01:40:30:06 - 01:40:56:12
Shoop
Yeah. And they cooked up this and it was able to give several people this kind of emotional response. Yeah, you can't not high-five them for that. Like they did really well. Whether you like it, whether you dislike it, it's connectable. You can connect to it in some way, and you can see that they put so much work into fleshing out what they couldn't do in 1997, like even the little changes they taste like with dying.

01:40:56:12 - 01:41:18:05
Shoop
I want to talk about real quick. Dying did not die in the exact same way as he did or no, I liked what they did more in Reaper. Honestly, personally, I don't. I know a lot of people are on the fence with that one. I will say I don't like what they did with Palmer right afterwards. There was this one thing that rebirth did a lot of that I was not a big fan of, where there was a lot of tonal whiplash.

01:41:18:07 - 01:41:23:03
Shoop
and like, yeah, yeah, I remember like messaging B, I was on B, I know you had her on.

01:41:23:07 - 01:41:25:18
Droogle
It's like game from final ten, the final phase ten to.

01:41:25:24 - 01:41:27:20
Shoop
Yeah, I messaged B.

01:41:27:23 - 01:41:28:10
Wade
Immediately.

01:41:28:12 - 01:41:53:13
Shoop
After after drew had done had done the whole dying death Barret thing and I was like, darn I'm a mess. Drew is a mess. And and B was like, yeah, but Palmer and I'm like, I know, I know. It was a little he's he's literally smacking his. Yeah. Right after while we're still choking. And I'm like, why? Yeah.

01:41:53:13 - 01:41:56:24
Shoop
Let me, let me, let me kind of digest it first. I mean, digest my emotions.

01:41:56:25 - 01:42:07:28
Droogle
Yeah. If I had one complaint, I do hope it's something they listen to in part three. I hope they and they did it in the trials. I will say do what you did in the trials, like let us sit in those moments. It's okay. Let us sit in those moments.

01:42:08:05 - 01:42:43:16
Wade
Well, it really is an interesting commentary on, you know, grief, right? Like your life, life happens. We're brought to our knees and we can't even grieve because the next thing is calling. And so is it a good, sort of an interpretation and forced sort of, reality, that there's a conversation about that. But, in some ways, I do like that this game is about now we're going to keep on going and not thinking about trauma and stress and go to the next mini game, because I think that part three is about accepting that moment of grief and loss in every way.

01:42:43:17 - 01:43:02:26
Droogle
I think that's a really good point. I agree, I think part three, I'm so curious how they're going to pace it out, because part of me wonders if part two was the exploration game. and I could imagine part three, even though we're going to have access to the high wind and we're gonna have this whole world of disposal, I don't think that's going to be the focus of the game.

01:43:02:26 - 01:43:33:03
Droogle
Honestly, I think it's going to be sort of Final Fantasy 16 esque in a way where, ignoring the side quests, but like very much about just this very epic, bombastic closure experience where we're we're having these weapon battles and everything's coming together, going from major set piece to set piece. I think it's going to be more of, a controlled, linear storytelling in part three to help us perceive that closure and acceptance.

01:43:33:05 - 01:43:54:12
Shoop
Hey, here's here's my thing. It's funny that we're all talking about closure and acceptance and such as far as like especially with the burial. Here's the thing. At the end of rebirth, out of the five diagnostic stages of grief, the only thing we are given in the end is denial. not given any other. Yeah. And if you think about it in 97, let's think about it.

01:43:54:15 - 01:44:07:04
Shoop
It makes sense hardware wise as far as like, oh, she died. Well, now we have to bury her. But and you see, you see Cloud's anger in the original. You didn't see his anger. We don't get Cloud's anger at the end of rebirth. Right?

01:44:07:05 - 01:44:08:26
Droogle
It was almost like they intentionally hit it from us.

01:44:08:26 - 01:44:23:10
Shoop
I feel like they did. I feel like they only wanted to give us because of the look at look back at the original. There is no denial there. Yeah, they don't give us a denial period for that stage of grief for cloud. And at the end of rebirth they do, which.

01:44:23:10 - 01:44:39:04
Droogle
When you think about Cloud's character, it actually doesn't make sense for him not to go through a denial period. Like that's cloud. I mean, that's his kind of his entire story is, is denial. Yeah. Manifestation is that. Yeah, it manifests in the Zach storyline in the original.

01:44:39:09 - 01:44:40:03
Wade
But really.

01:44:40:05 - 01:44:49:14
Droogle
Why wouldn't it manifest like the loss of Aerith? It kind of makes perfect sense to kind of add that on as a new layer to his denial.

01:44:49:19 - 01:44:59:13
Shoop
All about Cloud's denial at the end never goes through that. In the original, it's he goes and buries her and and he's sad about it later.

01:44:59:14 - 01:45:01:14
Droogle
Go snowboarding. Let's go snowboarding, guys.

01:45:01:14 - 01:45:02:23
Wade
Let's.

01:45:02:26 - 01:45:17:14
Shoop
But I think it'll be nice if, if, if, if whatever the third game is going to be called really touches more on the anger, the bargaining, the depression. Yeah. And then like drew was talking about the idea of the player controlling the memory of his family.

01:45:17:14 - 01:45:32:04
Droogle
I think we get Dark Night Cloud in World War. That's what I think we get. I think we're getting Dark Night Cloud. I think his moveset is going to reflect that. I think he's going to have the Black Materia automatically equipped, and he's going to be a very different interpreter mechanically.

01:45:32:07 - 01:45:35:17
Wade
Have you ever played with the dark side material?

01:45:35:19 - 01:45:36:15
Droogle
yes.

01:45:36:17 - 01:45:39:03
Wade
so I wonder if that skill set may be.

01:45:39:04 - 01:45:41:23
Droogle
Actually really good point there. It's actually in to dark.

01:45:41:28 - 01:45:45:10
Wade
Did. Oh, I forgot about. I haven't played much with it, but enough to test it out.

01:45:45:10 - 01:45:46:13
Droogle
Yeah that's there.

01:45:46:13 - 01:45:48:28
Shoop
You're gonna go like antisocial on us.

01:45:49:04 - 01:46:04:27
Droogle
I think it's going to be sort of a Cecil journey, I think. I think it's going to be Dark Knight, a warrior of light for cloud in part three. I do think that is kind of going to be my personal prediction. And I think a lot of people share this. I think I've seen it elsewhere, too. I think the black Materia gets placed with the White Materia by the end of the game.

01:46:04:27 - 01:46:21:06
Droogle
I think Cloud's Hollow Materia is going to be filled with light by the end of it, because he's going to put either his memories into it or Aerith memories or something. Something is going to fill that materia. Yeah. With with with Light again. And it's going to replace the Dark Materia and you'll go from Dark Knight to Warrior of Light.

01:46:21:11 - 01:46:27:20
Evan
there you go. They already read our minds and answered our usual wrap up question.

01:46:27:23 - 01:46:28:07
Wade
I know.

01:46:28:07 - 01:46:32:13
Evan
Right? I know what to do. Our usual wrap up question is what would they need to do in part three.

01:46:32:13 - 01:46:33:07
Wade
To release the.

01:46:33:07 - 01:46:46:25
Evan
Landing for you? And you guys just literally went point by point, back and forth. I, I was going to ask if I could ask you at this time, wait, but I'll let you, I'll let you make sure that you extract all the information that you want from this to wonder. Well, this.

01:46:46:28 - 01:47:17:27
Wade
This has been an amazing conversation, especially leaning into these, stage theory of grief. Right. And I think that you've made some really compelling points about the way that we process rebirth and the way that we can dream about the next part. I think there's some really cool stuff. The beginning of our conversation today was all about, kind of our creator content creator journeys about authenticity and knowing the boundaries of of that.

01:47:17:29 - 01:47:52:00
Wade
And Final Fantasy seven is also a journey about authenticity, about being filled with integrity, where all of your disparate parts are forged and formed into one cohesive sort of thing. How do you think? And this will be our final wrap up question. How do you think the remake trilogy specifically is helping a new generation? Think about their own identity, actualizing who they are and, processing that as struggle comes.

01:47:52:03 - 01:48:09:09
Shoop
It's funny. You know, I think, a lot of people, especially in the newer parts of the series, like whether it be 15 or 16 or remake or rebirth, I see a lot of old heads say like, well, this isn't Final Fantasy.

01:48:09:16 - 01:48:11:02
Wade
To.

01:48:11:04 - 01:48:42:06
Shoop
First of all, it's all crap. It's called Final Fantasy, so it's Final Fantasy. But remake and rebirth, especially remake. I have seen be so many people's first Final Fantasy. This is what to us as kids, our Final Fantasy seven or Final Fantasy 8 or 59 556 especially, I know was a lot of people's first. I think it's doing the people who are playing remake and such like that is their first.

01:48:42:06 - 01:49:06:07
Shoop
Final Fantasy is a complete disservice to say things like, well, this isn't Final Fantasy, but this don't ruin somebody else's first experience. I feel I relate a lot to that, especially because I connected so much with nine and everybody said, this is it, Final Fantasy, and I'm like, oh, what is that? It's giving us an emotional reaction, a great story, excellent characters, a world that we want to live in.

01:49:06:07 - 01:49:14:00
Shoop
Its Final Fantasy, and I just I'm sorry, I just went on a tangent. I completely forgot the question.

01:49:14:02 - 01:49:20:06
Wade
Yeah. it's about how is the remake trilogy helping people reckon with their own identities.

01:49:20:06 - 01:49:22:18
Evan
In the Next Generation?

01:49:22:21 - 01:49:48:07
Shoop
Yeah, it's giving them exactly what it gave us when we first played these. and I, for my own personal experience, it gave me a home, and it gave me an escape. And it gave me a place to feel safe and to feel comfortable. and I lived in this own little world. Like I said, from the very beginning of this, like segment, these characters were my friends, and now they flesh these characters out even bigger.

01:49:48:07 - 01:50:10:28
Shoop
You can relate even more to Tifa. You can relate even more to Aerith. You can really relate even more to cloud, Zack, Aerith, Barret. Look at drew. He didn't cry to the whole dying Barret thing in 1997, but now he's a dad, and they fleshed out that dad's story and he was a complete mess. look what that's doing.

01:50:10:28 - 01:50:29:28
Shoop
For those of us who have children, those are who were older now, or those of us who've never played Final Fantasy before but are old enough to grasp these emotional, mature moments. They're going to sit with you the exact same way that the pixels did back in the 90s. How they sat with us. There's no difference. And that's my appeal.

01:50:29:28 - 01:50:30:26
Shoop
I'm sorry.

01:50:30:28 - 01:50:33:19
Wade
Thank you. What about you?

01:50:33:21 - 01:50:34:12
Evan
Just a heads up.

01:50:34:14 - 01:50:37:08
Wade
You're muted.

01:50:37:11 - 01:50:58:27
Droogle
It's disappointing to me in a way that's more new players aren't playing the seven remake series from what we can tell based off of numbers, you know, sales numbers and whatnot. It seems like it's not hitting a new audience the way maybe Square Enix expected. It's a lot of us old heads coming back to the series and seeing it again.

01:50:58:27 - 01:51:16:17
Droogle
I think there's a lot of value in that. As she was saying, we're at different places in our life now. almost 20. actually, it was 30 years later and in some sense, to revisit these characters and connect with them in a way that's completely different. Like I connect with cloud in a much different way now than I did in 97.

01:51:16:17 - 01:51:45:16
Droogle
I feel like I connect with Barret in a certainly much different way now than I did in 97, and allows us to let these characters we're sort of actualizing in a different way now, right, based on that. but I do think, whoever is playing this, the new generation for the first time, what I really respect about Square Enix and what they're trying to do here is they are trying to give those players an opportunity to experience something very similar to us in sort of the pacing of it, right?

01:51:45:16 - 01:52:09:11
Droogle
How things were revealed, the questions, the the mysteries, because I think they could have just done it 1 to 1. They certainly could have done that, and I'm sure it would have done well, honestly, you probably we've done very well, but we all would have known what was coming. All of us. Right. And I think a lot of people that even didn't play it would know it was coming, because a lot of these twists and turns are almost iconic moments that have been talked about for years.

01:52:09:14 - 01:52:31:00
Droogle
But what they've done and, some people would disagree, or maybe they don't think it's quite as successful as I think it is, but I do think that they've put enough ambiguity, and I think they've put enough question marks and they've changed things just enough that there is, as we're playing through it as a new player and role player, where it's like we don't necessarily know what's coming next.

01:52:31:06 - 01:52:52:28
Droogle
We have that almost like a three disc structure of the original No Grain in the original. We could just put in the next disc, but now it still kind of feels that way after part two, after rebirth, where it's like, I feel like I just finished disc two and what's going to happen next? Like, I think I know I have some really good ideas on what they should do, but I don't know for sure.

01:52:53:03 - 01:53:13:02
Droogle
And I would really love to talk with somebody that has no knowledge, no knowledge whatsoever of the original Final Fantasy seven to find out, like how this is connecting with them, what they think of these characters and what they think is, is going to come next. Because I bet you for most of them, they're having a very similar journey to what we experienced back in 97.

01:53:13:02 - 01:53:14:21
Droogle
As far as how this story is unfolding.

01:53:14:26 - 01:53:17:05
Shoop
You can sit out with your oldest daughter.

01:53:17:07 - 01:53:19:15
Droogle
Brian, someday. I would love to.

01:53:19:17 - 01:53:24:17
Shoop
He got her on the Segway and all she wanted to do was mow people down. That's true in Costa del Sol.

01:53:24:17 - 01:53:26:02
Droogle
Yeah, that that's her favorite thing right now.

01:53:26:03 - 01:53:26:22
Wade
Me too.

01:53:26:23 - 01:53:44:11
Shoop
You know when know when she's a little bit older. I'm saying, like you, you should, you know, first hand experience, test it out. Like, see how she responds to these characters. You know, when she gets to the point where she has the patience to play through remake and rebirth, and by then, at that age, more than likely the third game will be out.

01:53:44:13 - 01:53:57:06
Droogle
I think. Yeah. Speaking of the third game, and then we talked about this a little bit tonight. We don't know what's going to happen. We don't know how this is going to close. And I think a lot of us have some sense of disappointment because we don't have closure yet. But I think we all need to keep that in mind.

01:53:57:06 - 01:54:12:18
Droogle
That this was always planned as a three part trilogy. From the moment that they revealed it in 2015, they might have thought at one point that it could have been more than three parts, or it could have been four parts. I don't know, but I think personally I think they are always probably thought it was going to be three parts.

01:54:12:18 - 01:54:46:00
Droogle
I think it always made sense, and it seems like they're kind of discussing it as that being the fact now in interviews. So considering that I think in 2 to 3 years when part three is out and all is said and done, I think then we can truly decide what this was was a successful. I think if what I have in my head comes to be the reality and they stick the landing, and I think for most people honestly, that they are going to look back on this series as being one of the most important moments in RPGs and something that will probably never see again.

01:54:46:00 - 01:55:05:23
Droogle
Honestly, because I don't think we will. I don't think we will ever see a remake series on the scale of the seven remake series ever again, I don't think it's quite successful enough monetarily for Square Enix, and also just the scope of it to have have a team spend 14 years, maybe a little less than that, maybe 12 years on one video game series, one story being told.

01:55:05:26 - 01:55:23:28
Droogle
I think it's kind of it's kind of miraculous that this happened in the first place. And I think we all should be incredibly grateful that it did happen. If you are a seven fan, I don't think you should be looking at this being like, they change this, the change that you should be looking at this as a once in a generation, maybe even once in gaming moment, that will probably never happen again.

01:55:23:28 - 01:55:31:28
Droogle
And it happened for you and your favorite game of all time, actually, and I think we should be very grateful of that, especially especially if they stick the landing with part three.

01:55:32:00 - 01:55:49:12
Wade
Well, I'll tell you, I've got students that, did not give a rip about Final Fantasy. They started with seven remake and, rebirth. In fact, a couple of them the other day, were saying, you know, I really I wish I was more of a Tifa, but I know I'm in there. And the other one was like, you know, I'm I'm exactly the opposite.

01:55:49:13 - 01:56:10:07
Wade
Like, I, I wish I could be more optimistic and confident, but I know that I've got this quiet confidence. I'm like, that's amazing. One of them even cosplayed as Ara. That was like, what? What is your life? These were not gamers, by the way, beforehand. And they just so the mysteries are hitting for them. a lot of us, as you said, old heads or like could never understand the zag stuff.

01:56:10:07 - 01:56:15:04
Wade
And it's like it. That's a normal mystery in the storytelling for them. Yeah, they don't have to worry about that.

01:56:15:04 - 01:56:27:02
Droogle
So I'm so happy you said that. You're right. We experienced that same thing back in 97. Like we didn't know who Zack was. No one else even see Zack in the original. He was a freaking optional cut cutscene for the most part. So it's it's keep out of mind like, yeah.

01:56:27:02 - 01:56:27:14
Wade
But it was a.

01:56:27:14 - 01:56:28:27
Droogle
Game we figured out.

01:56:29:00 - 01:56:49:06
Wade
Yeah, it was a game with closure, and now it's a delayed closure and we'll we'll get there. Well I drew Shoop. Shoot. We are so grateful that you have spent so much time with us today and just answered so many questions. Really got me thinking about this whole idea of the stages of grief. And I'm really, really excited for, what is to come in part three.

01:56:49:06 - 01:56:57:15
Wade
Now, tell us, where can we find you, where can our audience, see more of your content? And do you have anything coming up? Yeah, for us to look forward to.

01:56:57:16 - 01:56:58:21
Evan
What's coming up next?

01:56:58:28 - 01:57:14:13
Shoop
Yeah. well, you can find me at Twitch.tv. Pride's the issue, pop. It's rad. Z e as h o perform well, and, yeah, I figured I'd spell it because you don't wake up every morning just knowing how to spell writes you.

01:57:14:16 - 01:57:16:07
Wade
And we'll put it in the comments as well.

01:57:16:07 - 01:57:36:26
Shoop
Thanks. But, Yeah, I don't make any, like I said, any, any prerecorded content. every once in a while you might see a TikTok clip or such, but other than that, I am just only on Twitch. I live stream four days a week. what's a Tuesday? Wednesday, Thursday and Friday? And I'm usually playing, if not Final Fantasy.

01:57:36:26 - 01:57:55:17
Shoop
I am playing some form of emotional and visual storytelling that will make me cry. as you journey The Pathless Nava, which is coming up on October 15th, I'm going to be playing the crap out of that game. They also made Greece. I'd love that studio. awesome. So yeah, that's what I'm usually awesome.

01:57:55:20 - 01:57:57:19
Wade
It's a good time. What about you? Do?

01:57:57:21 - 01:58:15:25
Droogle
well, you can find me on Twitch. I twitch.tv struggle Dr. OG Lee. I'm also on YouTube at youtube.com slash Google and I'm trying to get better about TikTok. Although that one is Drupal TV. and as I mentioned a little bit earlier, we're doing a big Kingdom Hearts journey right now. We're going the first time ever through the entire series.

01:58:15:25 - 01:58:33:20
Droogle
My goal to understand it and, I'm also, for the first time ever, going through the entire Legend of Zelda series. So we've done the first one. We did Zelda two Adventure of Link, link to the past, Link's Awakening, and now we are on Ocarina of Time. The iconic Ocarina of Time are doing it.

01:58:33:23 - 01:58:34:29
Evan
water temple. Good luck.

01:58:35:04 - 01:58:35:24
Droogle
We just finished.

01:58:35:24 - 01:58:40:02
Wade
It. We just finished it. We did. It's good. Yeah, I liked it, I liked it, I like the one.

01:58:40:02 - 01:58:41:21
Evan
It's a nightmare as a child.

01:58:41:23 - 01:58:43:15
Wade
Yeah, it's a child. Brutal. Yeah.

01:58:43:15 - 01:59:02:22
Droogle
I didn't like Bongo Bongo in the Shadow Temple, but I did like the temple fair. But I thought that was very cool. but as I talked about earlier, like, I grew up on Final Fantasy and so much of what I streamed on Twitch. But as a streamer, you do need to think about switching things up. And I did Final Fantasy, especially recently for such a long time when I rebranded Google that I thought it was time to mix it up.

01:59:02:27 - 01:59:14:05
Droogle
So as much as Zelda and Kingdom Hearts are RPGs in their own sense, right? And they stay within that wheelhouse, I thought it was time to move on to some different series, and we're having a really, really great time with it so far.

01:59:14:11 - 01:59:30:22
Wade
It's awesome. Well, that's great. And like I said, we are so grateful that you are, you've took time to be a part of this lecture series. if you have enjoyed the conversation today, make sure you head on over to their channels. we've got the links in the comments. give them a, like a follow us, subscribe and all that kind of stuff.

01:59:30:25 - 01:59:51:11
Wade
And also, while you're here on this channel, make sure you remember to like and subscribe here right on YouTube. we are continuing with our Final Fantasy seven rebirth lecture series, so stay tuned for more lecture plays and more content creator interviews just like this. until next time, my friends. That's it from us. So walk till then.

01:59:51:11 - 01:59:52:12
Wade
We'll see you in class. Bye.

01:59:52:13 - 01:59:57:23
Evan
Thank you. Thank you everybody, again.

02:00:22:01 - 02:00:40:22
Speaker 1
Big thanks to Dougal and Shoup for the great interview. Thanks to Husky by the Geek for the use of our theme music. Thanks to Nick Smith for doing our graphics and most of all, thank you for listening, for watching. This show is brought to you by viewers like you and we appreciate you. So we hope you have a great week and we look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

02:00:40:25 - 02:00:41:25
Speaker 1
Bye bye.