The ProfNoctis Weekly Show

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:11:09
Evan
Hey everyone, I'm Evan and welcome to another episode of the ProfNoctis Show this week we have the incredible artist Tyler Heppner. Tell everyone what we can expect. Wade.

00:00:11:12 - 00:00:32:13
Wade
Well, Tyler's our first artist on the show, and so we're going to be deep diving into the process of creation a little bit and picking his brain about what he thinks goes into the creation of a remake like Final Fantasy seven. And so it's going to be a fascinating conversation, especially for new content creators and aspiring artists. This one is for you.

00:00:32:13 - 00:00:34:22
Wade
So without further ado, let's mosey.

00:01:02:01 - 00:01:02:14
Wade
Hey, everybody.

00:01:02:14 - 00:01:15:23
Wade
Welcome to another episode of The Prophet. Not this show. Today, Evan are joined by the brilliant artist Tyler Hepner. And we are so excited. Tyler, how are you doing, guys?

00:01:15:23 - 00:01:22:01
Tylor
I'm doing absolutely phenomenal. it feels so great to finally see you guys here.

00:01:22:02 - 00:01:23:22
Evan
Thank you for joining us.

00:01:23:24 - 00:01:42:00
Wade
Seriously, we reached out to you. like, I knew that I wanted you to be one of the people that guested on this show immediately. I was like, this is a voice in the art community and can provide a lens for for things that I haven't seen in rebirth. And I don't think a lot of content creators have really seen.

00:01:42:00 - 00:01:47:24
Wade
So I am just delighted. I've been looking forward to this day. dude, so thank you so much for being here.

00:01:47:27 - 00:02:01:25
Tylor
Yeah, thank you for having me. And it's an honor to be a part of this with so many other great people and I've connected with all of y'all. It feels so good. And finally, you get to talk to you both. yeah. I was like, I talk to y'all forever, but this is the first time.

00:02:01:27 - 00:02:26:08
Wade
To that point. I mean, I and for all of our audience, everybody listening, if you don't know, Tyler, you need to do a quick Google search. He's on Instagram. He is on, I think Instagram is where I first found you. He's certainly on Twitter, social media, all that stuff on Etsy. But this guy does art that just captures the spirit of the games that you love.

00:02:26:11 - 00:02:39:23
Wade
and you need to go look through all that stuff. But even more than that, I would be surprised if there are any of our listeners that haven't heard of you because, Tyler, you have been everywhere lately, like all of these new opportunities.

00:02:39:23 - 00:02:48:12
Evan
Like you're if they haven't heard of it, you may not know that it was his work, but you have definitely seen it. If you are on the internet at all.

00:02:48:14 - 00:02:58:24
Wade
You've just blown up over the last year. or six months even. I it just absolutely amazing. what what a journey for you. I know that you must be riding high.

00:02:58:26 - 00:03:26:01
Tylor
Oh, yeah. This last year since rebirth, leading up to it, has been the best. Because I get to connect with so many people through Final Fantasy and being hyped for it. You know, being excited and being able to connect with everyone through that is the best is the best feeling. especially just watching all these YouTubers, all these people and you, you feel connection with them, but then you finally meet them and you become friends.

00:03:26:01 - 00:03:28:10
Tylor
It's it's really fun. I love it.

00:03:28:13 - 00:03:55:12
Evan
That's something that's really interesting about the art world and different people's journey through improving their art, going to school for it, maybe different things like that is the community that they kind of develop along the way, like the artists that they meet in their class and then you start to build these relationships. I think a lot of us think of artists as these, like French impressionists that are tucked away and they hide and they go crazy and they chop off their ear and they just everybody's a Van Gogh.

00:03:55:16 - 00:04:12:26
Evan
And then you meet like, no, it's actually a it's a very communal, very connected environment. Not everybody is this recluse who just hides away and does art. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about what first interested you in art, because you're a professional artist now. So at some point you had to start that journey.

00:04:12:26 - 00:04:20:00
Evan
Has that just been inherent? You picked up a colored pencil at the age of two, and then you just kind of went from there. Tell us about it.

00:04:20:03 - 00:04:44:19
Tylor
yeah. So my art journey has been my whole life. It's been my whole life, since I was very little. Because, my parents are artists. my dad is very technical. his dream was to become an architect. so he do these really cool architectural drawings. And my mom is a jack of all trades. She's a master at crafting, sewing guitar.

00:04:44:21 - 00:05:10:10
Tylor
She's like the art queen. And my biggest inspiration. I'd say she's my biggest inspiration when it comes to art. So they cultivated and helped me, pursue it. And I went all in, my whole life, I didn't get serious until high school, though. Okay. As and that in high school was when I officially started pursuing it.

00:05:10:13 - 00:05:31:14
Evan
What did that look like? That decision to say this is something that I have been doing for fun, and maybe I'm growing up a little bit, I'm getting a little bit older. I'm starting to have to pick some extracurriculars and a career path, and that's pretty early to decide to commit to something. Not everyone has something that kind of bubbles to the surface that they want to commit to at that age, especially in our American society.

00:05:31:19 - 00:05:43:16
Evan
So what was that decision like? It seems like you've stuck with it and it's worked out okay, but was it something you're like, oh, this is definitely going to work out, no problem. I'll just work really hard where there's some trepidation and there a little bit of fear.

00:05:43:18 - 00:06:09:18
Tylor
There's a lot of fear and there's a lot of stagnation. And, I was stuck and had gone through a period of, two years in high school, 10th and 11th, severe acne, severe like fit, like at a scale of 1 to 10, it was a 15. and it brought me I came from really low. It made me really down, and negative.

00:06:09:20 - 00:06:46:29
Tylor
And what happened that changed all of that? I'm a strong Christian, and as I was praying and trying to get through this healing process, something clicked and I started being positive. I said, I'm going to be positive. No more negativity from me. And the act of being positive like allows your body to sing in a way, and I started praising God in this positive energy and healing and being, focused on Bible verses.

00:06:47:02 - 00:07:13:09
Tylor
I don't know if something clicked where I went all in and he healed me, and I wanted to honor him in the healing. So I did. My senior in 12th grade, I was healed, so I did my senior, thesis art portfolio, to get into college based off healing and receiving God's healing. So the focus was light.

00:07:13:11 - 00:07:33:09
Tylor
Alongside that, I had only done grayscale. I was doing pencil drawings and pencil drawings. I was so timid. I was timid and afraid. And it took me six months to finish one drawing. And my art teacher, she loved me. She let me get away with it, but she's like, come on now. You can't. You can't keep doing this.

00:07:33:15 - 00:08:00:27
Tylor
And all that was in line. that breakthrough of, I'm going to honor God in this. I'm going to get rid of the drawing, the gray and the and the pencil drawings. I'm going to go full in on color, messy pastels out of my comfort zone and go full color. And I went full force with it and did a full series, of the process of my healing and light was a big focus on that.

00:08:00:27 - 00:08:27:09
Tylor
So that kind of started the way I draw in pastels and how I capture light to and be extra dramatic and exaggerate and all that kind of stuff. So that's the source of, my art esthetic, I guess. And one one other thing is, Drew Struzan is my biggest inspiration. Christensen is the movie poster artist from the 80s and 90s.

00:08:27:09 - 00:08:30:22
Tylor
He drew Indiana Jones movie posters. He drew back to the future.

00:08:30:25 - 00:08:31:08
Evan
I'm going to look.

00:08:31:14 - 00:08:32:17
Wade
At the drawings.

00:08:32:17 - 00:08:34:15
Tylor
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you all seen him.

00:08:34:19 - 00:08:36:27
Wade
Yeah, yeah. I didn't know the name of the person.

00:08:36:27 - 00:09:03:29
Tylor
Yeah. Drew Struzan, he's my ultimate inspiration. And he had a video, a Hellboy video, and it showed him drawing. The poster for Hellboy blew me away. So all these things lined up? Yes. You have? Yeah, that that was the ignition to the drive for me to pursue. And all that, all those things that I said before, including that video, God gave it to me, ignited it.

00:09:03:29 - 00:09:08:29
Tylor
And it's just been like, I've been like, gung ho since then.

00:09:09:01 - 00:09:43:06
Wade
So much of what you just said, like, there's so many layers to it. in my classes, religious studies and in religious life at the University of Alabama, we always talk about, the ways that we make meaning in the world around us and how we channel that, that process of making meaning, into something productive. and I love the way that you were able to integrate, personal experience, belief system and hope all into kind of, shining through in your art.

00:09:43:08 - 00:10:01:22
Wade
and now that you mention it, I don't know if I would have been able to really put my finger on it, but when I look at your art, I'm able to see these, placements of light and light sources and just this ability to, create a luminous sort of impression on, on the page. It is really remarkable.

00:10:01:22 - 00:10:31:15
Wade
And so to hear, like there was a place and time of darkness in your life, and now you're able to convey light through your art, that's really, really powerful. That's a great, origin story there. when you mention, you mentioned a couple of times that, you know, through this, this process and faith and art, you were commemorating in some ways a personal healing and sort of thing.

00:10:31:15 - 00:10:51:24
Wade
Can you. Yeah. I wonder if you could explain a little bit what that means. because you you mentioned that you were talking about, acne and stuff like that, but, there were also other layers going on as well. When you speak of healing just briefly, what exactly are you referring to there?

00:10:51:27 - 00:11:01:20
Tylor
Well, there's a healing in not just the physical. my face was wounded and and scarred from so much I don't even know what happened.

00:11:01:20 - 00:11:13:24
Wade
But as a guy that struggled with acne from seventh grade through 10th grade, like I, I vividly recall that looking in the mirror and just being like, oh my gosh, what is this isn't who I am, right?

00:11:13:24 - 00:11:43:19
Tylor
So yeah, I think what happened? briefly, Roxy, I went to the dermatologist for a little bit of acne, and they gave me the pill and they gave me the topical and I think I had a reaction to it. And I think that severely damaged it. Damaged me bad. more so than having regular, really bad acne. so anyways, it really made me a negative person.

00:11:43:19 - 00:12:03:12
Tylor
I was not fun to be around. and I noticed it with my family having a good time. And I'm always talking about this. I don't want to bring people down. I want to uplift people. I want to be a light and I know God used it. I'm thankful for it. I know God used it to help me in my art journey.

00:12:03:12 - 00:12:23:24
Tylor
I'm thankful for it. I wouldn't be. I don't think we'd be here without our bad days. the good days. It helps have. It helps tell your story. And God gave me a story in me being stuck, too. I was stuck in my art. and then it was a healing of my spirit and how I thought.

00:12:23:26 - 00:12:36:03
Tylor
And God helped me become who I am now. I'm very. I'm very positive person. I very optimistic like Zack in a way. Like,

00:12:36:06 - 00:12:38:21
Wade
I can see through optimistic.

00:12:38:23 - 00:12:45:00
Tylor
it was my first Final Fantasy seven introduction was crisis course. So Zack's very, Zack.

00:12:45:02 - 00:12:49:26
Wade
Angel turn out. Your first introduction to Final Fantasy seven was crisis Core.

00:12:49:28 - 00:12:50:25
Tylor
Yes.

00:12:50:28 - 00:12:56:24
Wade
So you're playing in the chronological, like the the actual timeline of the game.

00:12:56:26 - 00:12:59:07
Wade
That's amazing. Yeah.

00:12:59:10 - 00:13:11:01
Tylor
So yeah, this positivity, really pull through and I like, was kind of flooded with it all at one time. And I've just been like on a full sprint ever since.

00:13:11:03 - 00:13:12:05
Wade
Yeah, I love that.

00:13:12:06 - 00:13:42:11
Evan
Well, we talk a lot about how our physical bodies and our spirit and our emotional selves, our mind, they're all connected and stuff like acne and things that are external cut deep at times. They goes, it goes to our confidence, which then leaks into our identity, which then makes us question our own strength and resolve. and that's a really challenging journey that I know a significant amount of people have really gone through.

00:13:42:13 - 00:14:23:07
Evan
and it's something that's really unfortunately common, for for those who are growing up, you talk about how your art journey kind of mirrored your personal journey, that when you felt that light more emotionally and in your spirit, you felt it start to express itself more in the way that you created your art? Could you talk a little bit about as an artist, that connection where you've feel what's happening in your own spirit and then it manifests itself externally in a visual way with art, a lot of the time my spirit just manifests itself in its mood and I'm like, grouchy, but I don't draw something right.

00:14:23:07 - 00:14:39:03
Evan
So you're drawing either way, right? You're drawing something that is representative of someone, of how you feel. And that's kind of part of that expression. Talk to us a little bit about what that's like to be able to express yourself visually that way, and what that has meant to you.

00:14:39:05 - 00:15:17:12
Tylor
Oh, man. At the most impactful time was right as I was being healed, I had extreme gratitude, and I wanted to honor that feeling of extreme emotion, of relief. And, I wanted to share this. I want to reflect what I've been given in some way. and it was like it was an overflow of a blessing, I don't know, but the series itself, kind of explains the process of receiving God's healing.

00:15:17:14 - 00:15:31:18
Tylor
and there's a lot of red involved and a lot of light involved. and it was very hard for me because it was opposite of stagnant. I was barely drawing anything, I was drawing, I was it took me six months to draw some grass. I mean, it's like.

00:15:31:20 - 00:15:32:08
Wade
A.

00:15:32:11 - 00:15:50:16
Tylor
Complete contrast, but the extreme emotions of relief and feeling, finally overcoming something with his help. kind of gave me the strength to, I don't know, find to have a have a goal. Had a.

00:15:50:16 - 00:15:52:07
Wade
Goal. Oh, yeah.

00:15:52:09 - 00:15:59:23
Tylor
To pursue. And I wasn't like lost. I was like, he found me. I had a pattern, something to run to.

00:15:59:27 - 00:16:02:01
Wade
Yeah.

00:16:02:03 - 00:16:26:02
Tylor
and I went for it, and it feels really good. I mean, it feels really nice to get. That's great how you feel out. And that that boost really helped my confidence. And, that's that series got, top 5% in the country for portfolio reviews. Wow. At the time went for high schoolers sending it off. You send it off to a board and to get it was a top 5%.

00:16:26:02 - 00:16:28:04
Tylor
I was really proud of it. It's really good.

00:16:28:06 - 00:16:45:12
Evan
What is it like as you've grown to be able to express yourself visually because you're obviously you're not in high school anymore. You've done college, you're into your career, but you're still using visual art to be able to express how you feel. But sometimes you're drawing, you know, a subject, you're drawing a marvel character, or you're drawing a Final Fantasy character.

00:16:45:14 - 00:16:58:03
Evan
How does that element of personal expression find its way into like a portrait of a character, for example? And what have you learned kind of over the years as you've developed?

00:16:58:06 - 00:17:06:06
Tylor
So with pastels, it's about capturing, oh, I would focus on photorealism, and it's all about getting less time out.

00:17:06:06 - 00:17:22:02
Evan
So we're going to need to probably define some terms and everything here okay. So you're primarily a pastel artist at first right? Yes. Okay. So tell us what pastels are and what makes them special compared to other mediums. That way we're all kind of let's go step by step along the way. That way.

00:17:22:05 - 00:17:24:20
Wade
Vocabulary terms for our statue.

00:17:24:22 - 00:17:25:01
Wade
Yeah.

00:17:25:07 - 00:17:26:06
Tylor
Unfamiliar.

00:17:26:08 - 00:17:26:18
Evan
Okay.

00:17:26:18 - 00:17:27:02
Tylor
So okay.

00:17:27:02 - 00:17:29:01
Evan
So pastels.

00:17:29:03 - 00:17:55:23
Tylor
Pastel. I wanted to be a pastel artist. It's it's, varied as a chalk based, really messy medium that me being very neat and orderly. I wanted to do, I wanted to do that use this medium to help me out of my comfort zone. I want to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. so I'm used. I'm trying to be uncomfortable as much as possible because I'm such a,

00:17:55:25 - 00:18:21:13
Tylor
I don't like change. I don't like this kind of thing. I don't like I don't like being uncomfortable, but I need I force myself to do it. So, it's a very messy medium, and I. And I use it for photorealism over the years. And to capture, I wanted to capture the lightness of a person as I want to capture the spirit of a person, as accurately as possible.

00:18:21:13 - 00:18:30:02
Tylor
That was my ultimate goal, is to be like the best portrait artist, with pastels, which is not, normally used because it's a messy medium. Yeah.

00:18:30:03 - 00:18:36:12
Evan
Time out. So you're using, like, a chalk derivative to make something look photo real?

00:18:36:14 - 00:18:37:12
Tylor
Yeah. Yes.

00:18:37:12 - 00:18:42:21
Wade
How is that possible? Oh, well, I don't.

00:18:42:24 - 00:18:46:13
Tylor
It's all God. But, the process.

00:18:46:15 - 00:18:50:02
Wade
That's true. Throwing up for the big man. Yeah, yeah.

00:18:50:04 - 00:19:11:06
Tylor
the. I figured out the process. man, it's hard to explain. It's hard to explain, but it's all it's it's become intuitive to me. Yeah, to the point where, I just trust the process. it's all about layering colors perfectly. It's a it's a it's a process.

00:19:11:09 - 00:19:23:26
Evan
I want to I want to know more about it. We want to know more about it. So okay, there's you have the pastel in your hand. You have the medium that you're going to put. we call it chalk to paper. They're oily. Right. They're a little oily.

00:19:23:29 - 00:19:26:28
Tylor
there's oil pastels and I use a dry pastel.

00:19:26:29 - 00:19:49:16
Evan
Okay. So there's two differences now, and I'm being educated even further. So you have, you see something in with your eyes and then you see it kind of in your mind how you can shape the pastels to create that on the page. So you start with a sketch or an outline. You have kind of colors in mind. Do you know where you're headed from the very beginning, or do you kind of have to adapt as you go?

00:19:49:17 - 00:19:55:24
Evan
Maybe something doesn't look the same way on the page as you saw it in your mind. Talk about that process while you're white.

00:19:55:26 - 00:20:16:24
Tylor
Well, this is a this is what I'll get into when it comes to the traditional and capturing realism. You have a reference and you trust the reference. And you you draw what you see and I'm good at drawing what you see. And the my model is draw what you see. Now what you know, you draw the shapes and you don't draw what you're seeing.

00:20:16:24 - 00:20:34:17
Tylor
If it's an apple, you draw, you don't draw it. You're not drawing an apple. You're drawing shapes on this in the space. And you think about it three dimensionally like that as you're drawing. that's why you can draw things upside down easier and capture it more real, because your brain doesn't process it as what it is.

00:20:34:24 - 00:20:35:22
Evan
Time out. Okay.

00:20:35:22 - 00:20:37:25
Wade
The phrase okay, there's so many timeouts.

00:20:38:02 - 00:20:49:03
Evan
Yeah. Time out like this is, this is when you talk to somebody who's just really good at something and they've been doing it for so long and yeah. So how do you do it? You're like, well, I don't know, just spend 50,000 hours on it. Then do it. It's like, you know.

00:20:49:07 - 00:20:53:26
Wade
You're drawing it. So you write upside down. Yeah.

00:20:53:27 - 00:20:59:25
Evan
Your brain flips it anyway. So technically if you search in your soul deep enough, everything's upside down anyways. And your brain turns it around.

00:21:00:00 - 00:21:02:16
Wade
Like, yes. Yeah, I use that as.

00:21:02:16 - 00:21:06:21
Evan
Like, words. But the way I know that you want to hear that phrase again. What?

00:21:06:23 - 00:21:09:11
Wade
You know, you said you said.

00:21:09:13 - 00:21:16:14
Evan
Blowing my mind like I like I, I can try and draw right now and there's not like it's just going to be like.

00:21:16:16 - 00:21:18:04
Wade
Well, listen, I.

00:21:18:07 - 00:21:31:00
Wade
Even just a if it makes me feel better. Like I took six years of art. Right? And I'm still like, this is how I know that he has a gift for this. And I was trying to get a gift for this.

00:21:31:03 - 00:21:32:25
Wade
Like, like I can draw.

00:21:32:25 - 00:21:40:07
Wade
A little bit, but like, this is an actual artist here. And so you're using phrasing and terminology. It's like, oh, you you just do it.

00:21:40:09 - 00:21:46:28
Wade
Okay. Yeah. So draw what you like. You see that phrase again? Something about you draw. Don't try not go.

00:21:47:00 - 00:21:49:25
Evan
See draw what you know. Let let that you say you say it.

00:21:49:25 - 00:21:50:21
Wade
Yeah. Please.

00:21:50:23 - 00:22:11:13
Tylor
Okay. Yeah. The motto I go by is draw what you see. And now what you know. Draw what you draw the shapes within that space and not the subject. Don't let your mind focus on the subject of what you're drawing. I'm not drawing a face. I'm drawing patterns and shapes, and that helps me with the realism.

00:22:11:15 - 00:22:15:06
Evan
Draw what you see, not what you know.

00:22:15:09 - 00:22:19:15
Wade
Okay. Tyler, did you come up with that? Is that like a quote? Yeah.

00:22:19:17 - 00:22:22:28
Tylor
No, it's my my art teacher. Well, you a real talent.

00:22:23:01 - 00:22:24:21
Wade
Okay, you got to draw it.

00:22:24:22 - 00:22:45:03
Evan
It's not what you know that goes so much to it. That's really breaking my brain, because it goes so much to the assumption to like when you're trying to create realism for a subject and you're getting to know someone. There's this idea of like listening and joke, like in when I'm perceiving someone in my mind, or I'm having a conversation like, draw what I see and like take in what is actually there.

00:22:45:03 - 00:22:53:26
Evan
Don't just take in what I know and try and connect to like other assumptions. That is.

00:22:53:29 - 00:22:58:04
Wade
To this point. And we will return to that. For it is. I have made a note.

00:22:58:07 - 00:22:59:24
Evan
Did you write it down? I'm writing it down.

00:22:59:26 - 00:23:35:28
Wade
I've written it down and it's like engraved on my heart now, because this has so many implications for the ways that we would perceive media as well. And so you're ability to be able to process and notice things from what you were seeing versus layering, layering what you already know, some preconceived notion of this, which I think in many ways, it allows you to excavate something for what it actually is rather than what you want it to be or what you would prefer it to be.

00:23:35:28 - 00:23:43:11
Wade
And that has huge ramifications for when we talk about rebirth. Yeah. So a little teaser for our friends listening.

00:23:43:12 - 00:23:44:03
Wade
Today.

00:23:44:10 - 00:23:57:16
Wade
As we get into that a little bit later. I'm curious. so you started out a pastel artist you've moved into, more sketching and stuff with, colored pencil. Is that what you use now?

00:23:57:17 - 00:23:58:04
Evan
Digital art?

00:23:58:04 - 00:24:00:27
Tylor
I think it's all digital. It's all digital, not digital.

00:24:00:27 - 00:24:03:16
Wade
Okay. So why the.

00:24:03:16 - 00:24:13:17
Wade
Change? Like, what was the like? Talk to us a little bit about shifting from one. I guess it's a different medium, right? One medium to the next.

00:24:13:19 - 00:24:14:17
Tylor
yeah.

00:24:14:20 - 00:24:24:07
Wade
And yet still keeping your style. Like what caused it. What what was the shift? What were you trying to capture and versus what you do now? Yeah. Go for it.

00:24:24:09 - 00:24:33:02
Tylor
Yeah. So, in 2020, I was looking forward to remake coming out. so that was on my mind leading up.

00:24:33:02 - 00:24:42:16
Wade
You had been a Final Fantasy seven fan before remake. You had played crisis Core. Did you ever go back to the original game, like, I assume like the F7?

00:24:42:18 - 00:24:49:08
Tylor
Yeah. So let me get that. I'll. I'll lead into that. I'll get into a quick FF7 overview.

00:24:49:12 - 00:24:55:03
Evan
No, we're going to ask you ten more questions before you can answer one. Rapid fire. You can do that stuff okay.

00:24:55:06 - 00:24:56:25
Wade
Yeah. So hold the hold.

00:24:56:25 - 00:25:10:24
Tylor
The thought of the transition I'll get into the F7 really quick. I didn't play the OG. I was really young. I was only three when FF7 came out. Okay. and my, wait.

00:25:10:27 - 00:25:11:21
Wade
Wait, so trying.

00:25:11:21 - 00:25:13:17
Evan
Not to age in front.

00:25:13:19 - 00:25:15:09
Wade
Of us like I'm.

00:25:15:11 - 00:25:17:26
Evan
It's Benjamin Button in front of our eyes.

00:25:17:29 - 00:25:20:25
Wade
just had a big milestone. Birthday is like.

00:25:20:28 - 00:25:21:01
Wade
You.

00:25:21:02 - 00:25:24:18
Evan
Doing great. You're doing great. Okay, so you didn't play the original F7, but.

00:25:24:18 - 00:25:25:00
Tylor
No.

00:25:25:00 - 00:25:28:18
Evan
Yeah. Talk to us about video games, how you got here, what your history is with.

00:25:28:21 - 00:25:50:03
Tylor
Yeah. So, my source was my parents. They would bring home games they wanted to play, and I would watch them play. so my mom, I'm going down game history. I'll get to the transition. But, this is good. So it's my mom played that. My very fondest, earliest memory was watching my mom play Ocarina of Time.

00:25:50:05 - 00:26:06:23
Tylor
so Zelda is near and dear to to my heart. So me and my sister would sit either side of my mom playing, and my dad would be at work, and he'd come play when he gets home. But we we kind of learned to read through my mom playing it. She tell us to read the text and so where.

00:26:06:23 - 00:26:07:21
Evan
To go, mom?

00:26:07:24 - 00:26:31:27
Tylor
I love that experience. So that carried on years and years. I watched my parents play. They were my let's play YouTube versa. I mean, I was obsessed with watching them play, right? they would. And then they played Final Fantasy ten. That was my first Final Fantasy experience. Was Final Fantasy ten. and that esthetic forever stuck with me.

00:26:32:00 - 00:26:53:10
Tylor
That and I, I know I never play Chrono Trigger. Chrono cross is my favorite. One of my favorite games of all time for art wise, for the art esthetic of that influenced everything I do, my color choices, the way I. I appreciate art in general. Chrono cross is huge and another world.

00:26:53:17 - 00:26:55:20
Wade
Art is out of this world.

00:26:55:23 - 00:26:56:19
Wade
Oh, good.

00:26:56:21 - 00:27:16:01
Tylor
Yes. The, the another world music is like my life song. It's my, it's the number one song of like life. And anyways getting into that but Chrono Cross an F of ten kind of melded together with this Islander esthetic that I'm really attached to. I really love it. so anyways.

00:27:16:02 - 00:27:19:06
Evan
The color palette was my first song. A lot of sense looking at it.

00:27:19:08 - 00:27:24:23
Wade
It does like I'm learning stuff about what I'm viewing when I'm admiring your work.

00:27:24:25 - 00:27:25:23
Wade
Yeah.

00:27:25:25 - 00:27:29:25
Evan
Unfortunately, Wade, we're having some connection issues on your end.

00:27:29:28 - 00:27:30:21
Wade
Oh.

00:27:30:23 - 00:27:37:26
Evan
So we've been. We can handle the blurriness, but, you went robot voice for a second there, so, okay.

00:27:37:26 - 00:27:39:27
Wade
Is bad now.

00:27:39:29 - 00:27:44:01
Evan
it's bad for me. I don't know, Tyler, if you're getting some hiccups.

00:27:44:05 - 00:27:45:18
Tylor
He was a little robot. Yeah.

00:27:45:18 - 00:27:49:20
Wade
Okay, let me see what I.

00:27:49:23 - 00:28:03:08
Evan
just make sure that you're not downloading any updates on your computer or any games or. Okay. Or anything like that. It's just it's it's. Everybody's off work in Tuscaloosa right now, so everybody's getting online, and it's.

00:28:03:08 - 00:28:07:00
Wade
Probably clogging up your interwebs.

00:28:07:02 - 00:28:09:00
Wade
I don't know, man. it's.

00:28:09:02 - 00:28:09:18
Evan
It's fixing.

00:28:09:18 - 00:28:10:17
Tylor
It. So you could.

00:28:10:19 - 00:28:13:07
Evan
I think we could. Yeah, I think we can pick back up. It'll be fine.

00:28:13:07 - 00:28:13:26
Tylor
Sound good now?

00:28:13:28 - 00:28:15:18
Wade
Oh. My apologies.

00:28:15:20 - 00:28:16:02
Wade
I don't know.

00:28:16:02 - 00:28:17:01
Tylor
Now you're good.

00:28:17:03 - 00:28:19:17
Evan
Yeah. We don't make the rules.

00:28:19:19 - 00:28:22:15
Wade
I don't I don't make the internet. I am not al Gore. So.

00:28:22:16 - 00:28:31:08
Evan
Yeah. let me just. Yeah. You're it back in. You're not quite in. Okay.

00:28:31:10 - 00:28:59:21
Evan
All right. You're coming back. Okay. So, we were. Yeah, we were discussing, like, across color palette. So why don't you, let me let me just toss it back in that way I know. Okay, where I'm gonna slice it back in. and I'll start with my chronograph color palette. Comment. Yeah, I could really see where the color palette here for this Chrono Cross is evident all over everything that you do.

00:28:59:21 - 00:29:17:19
Evan
That's really neat. And that was something that really stuck with you was these art styles the Zelda Ocarina of Time art style, Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy ten. Tell us a little bit about when you started playing them yourself. What did you start to enjoy in games? What console did you play them on? What were some of your favorite games?

00:29:17:21 - 00:29:37:29
Tylor
Yeah, so it was always watching my parents play and I enjoyed that. And then we started getting more consoles, you know, more consoles coming out, the main console, living room, the main console became the 360. And so it wasn't the two anymore. And it could come in my room. Best day ever. because I get to go through these myself.

00:29:37:29 - 00:30:00:19
Tylor
Yeah. so I spent a lot of time is in fifth grade is when I officially, like, played through these games myself and experienced them and truly fell in love with them. it was I finally fate through chronographs and F10 and, Kingdom Hearts. Those were big three. I remember doing all those in my room and, it was changed everything.

00:30:00:26 - 00:30:14:28
Tylor
The art blew me away. it made me who I am now and then. I'm forever a gamer. but yeah, that fifth grade was the year I officially, like, played them all, you know.

00:30:17:00 - 00:30:20:24
Wade
So did you play Final Fantasy seven and that, like, the original.

00:30:20:26 - 00:30:38:21
Tylor
So the so the original was not, in my view, at all. Okay. You know, we don't have perspective of like, I don't have critique. Like I'm all in the gaming culture now, like reviews and critics and what people think. I mean, when you're little, you have no concept of what's around you, who who likes what, why they like it.

00:30:38:21 - 00:30:39:29
Wade
Right?

00:30:40:01 - 00:31:06:03
Tylor
so I had no idea of the culture like I would now if I was that of my agent, then, you know. Sure. So, everything was from my dad coming, bringing home movies at games every week. so officially, he brought home seven children, and we watched having children, without had no context of FF7. So. Well, most had no idea.

00:31:06:05 - 00:31:08:09
Wade
Viewing of Advent Children have to. Yeah.

00:31:08:11 - 00:31:27:11
Tylor
Or whatever. So it was. But it was a it was so the artist. So it impacted me greatly. Like I'd watched it over and over and over again, study the choreography. I think it's best in industry animation wise, choreography wise. Still, I had no idea what the story was though. But I got to touch the cloud. Yeah.

00:31:27:11 - 00:31:28:12
Tylor
And Sephiroth as.

00:31:28:12 - 00:31:29:02
Evan
We do.

00:31:29:04 - 00:31:58:14
Tylor
As characters? Yeah. As swordsmen, esthetically, everything about them. So I got attached to them and gravitated to them and everything. They were then there in Kingdom Hearts. That's cool. And Dissidia. Dissidia was a big PSP when we started in a PSP game. that's that was my connection to them, other sources outside of the FF7. And then Crysis Core was my official, like, I'm playing a game with FF7.

00:31:58:16 - 00:32:15:15
Evan
You just made some ad executive marketing executive really, really happy at Square Enix because seriously, like, okay, he watched Advent Children and then he saw them in Kingdom Hearts. And that's what we were getting for. Like we got him like we got did it. Somebody just I was their dream was realized.

00:32:15:18 - 00:32:18:09
Tylor
Perfect timing for me in that kind of stuff.

00:32:18:11 - 00:32:19:19
Wade
Did you ever play.

00:32:19:19 - 00:32:22:11
Wade
Final Fantasy Original?

00:32:22:14 - 00:32:25:24
Tylor
Okay, so I'll get to that.

00:32:25:26 - 00:32:28:20
Wade
I'm like, oh, so you took the.

00:32:28:20 - 00:32:33:01
Wade
Longest way possible to get to Final Fantasy seven? It sounds like, like every.

00:32:33:01 - 00:32:34:25
Wade
Other game imaginable. Yeah, yeah.

00:32:34:25 - 00:32:58:02
Tylor
Final Fantasy has has been my everything, but, I'm also like a Halo fan. I'm a Fable fan. I'm a oh, like a. Throughout my life, I've gone through all these other, periods of gaming, you know? So that took my interest. I was absorbed by Halo. I was absorbed by Destiny. oh. There's an Overwatch period. Everybody has a 15 period.

00:32:58:05 - 00:33:23:10
Tylor
So if around the time of 15 hype, I was in college and getting into gaming news, which I'm super into now, it's like everything as my my hobby, I just take part in. I love taking in what the world is saying about games. I like being in the culture of it. I was starting to do that around 2014, following everything.

00:33:23:10 - 00:33:43:13
Tylor
Oh, I had an Arkham. I'm obsessed with the Arkham series, by the way, too, so I was really into that at the time. but I was really looking forward to Final Fantasy 15 and then E3 2015 happens and I'm blown away by the remake reveal trailer, you know, and everyone's hype around it. And I'm hype for different reasons.

00:33:43:15 - 00:34:05:14
Tylor
But, I decided to fully commit and understand exactly everything about F7 because I had no idea what. I did not know the story. I just knew I like the characters and I knew crisis core, and I've had children there. No value of connection of the story for me. So I'm busy with college so I don't have time to sit and play games much.

00:34:05:16 - 00:34:09:00
Tylor
So as I'm drawing I have Let's Plays playing all the time.

00:34:09:07 - 00:34:09:26
Wade
Oh cool.

00:34:09:26 - 00:34:36:27
Tylor
I, I watch my parents place. I'm fine with watching others play it. so my first playthrough of F7 was through. Now my good friend Dan's Go Away on YouTube. I watched his playthrough and then he explained the whole story and because of him, I understand everything. And then I got in the rabbit hole. I wanted to know the iceberg and a fancy union.

00:34:36:27 - 00:34:59:25
Tylor
And through YouTube I mean, I got, I got very well acquainted with it. And then, so it's been second hand the OG, but everything else I play but, that's, that was my connection to FF7. But I know, I know, it's my number one now. I mean, I, I'm obsessed with it, as you can tell by what I draw now, but.

00:34:59:28 - 00:35:25:28
Wade
It's, it's so interesting because I think that your experience is not, a singular experience. I have students in my classes that, have played crisis corps, like the Crisis Corps reunion. Okay, the remaster remake or whatever. Yeah. they've played remake, they've played rebirth. and they've play, they've watched Advent Children, but they never have played the original game.

00:35:25:28 - 00:35:35:05
Wade
And so I think that that's one of the things that Square Enix has been taking into account. It's like, okay, like we really need to do something.

00:35:35:05 - 00:35:36:08
Evan
And still.

00:35:36:08 - 00:36:06:02
Wade
Do people in as an entry point. And and again, that even though you've experienced the story, kind of second hand, through YouTubers and others, that does inevitably change the way that you interact with the story. But it also lets me, imagine that your anticipation for remake was very different from lifelong fans. right. Who who played it like me, 13 years old.

00:36:06:02 - 00:36:08:26
Wade
Yeah. Playing it in 1997.

00:36:08:28 - 00:36:13:09
Wade
So. Well, how would you say that.

00:36:13:11 - 00:36:32:24
Wade
you know your high levels going into remake and then into rebirth, even though you knew the story and knew everything about it and stuff. What was it like for you in the build up for that? Anticipating to get to play as these characters in a, in a way that was more, amenable to the times, I guess.

00:36:32:26 - 00:36:33:00
Evan
Yeah.

00:36:33:00 - 00:36:34:13
Tylor
More so.

00:36:34:15 - 00:36:35:20
Wade
And making. Yeah.

00:36:35:22 - 00:37:06:09
Tylor
Yeah. So being with perspective now, ideally I would have loved to have grown up with FF7. that would have been ideal for the ultimate ultimate hype level. You know, to get the full experience of like just like we're experiencing the digital era change from VCR to CD to DVD, we get to experience this really unique generation that it gets to experience technology grow in the way that it has.

00:37:06:11 - 00:37:31:12
Tylor
And there's there's a value to that. and I, I understand that value added. I wish I could have seen it when I was young and had that, but I also I got extremely invested. I mean, I was already a Final Fantasy fan. I knew of cloud for since, having children and Crisis core, crisis Core is very dear to me.

00:37:31:12 - 00:37:57:24
Tylor
I was very aware of it. and then getting acquainted with it from 2015 to 2020, it became my favorite thing ever, and I've never been more excited for anything. I don't think I've ever been more excited, even as someone who didn't grow up with it. Yeah, I still felt the same. I think I felt the same as if I can't account for the feelings of people who waited for it, but I'd say my hype was the same.

00:37:57:27 - 00:37:58:14
Tylor
It was the same.

00:37:58:14 - 00:38:03:07
Wade
Watch Advent Children and then go to play Crysis cause that's the right timeline.

00:38:03:12 - 00:38:03:26
Tylor
Yes.

00:38:04:03 - 00:38:18:08
Wade
Okay, so when you pick up Crisis core cloud doesn't show up for like hours in that game. Yeah, sure. Impression of being like, who is this guy? Zack? He's in a few scenes in Advent Children, but like, what was that like?

00:38:18:10 - 00:38:47:08
Tylor
So my so baby brain. Baby brain playing a game. Yeah. it's just playing a game, right? I did not. I did not associate. I just saw a new Sephiroth. Was was my glue. I was like, my favorite character. He's the glue that helped me connect. Oh, I love this. I love this Sephiroth. I didn't register, I didn't pay attention to the story much.

00:38:47:11 - 00:38:58:07
Tylor
I didn't I didn't pay attention. It was like it's very casual. Yeah, and that's weird for me to say because I'm not a casual anymore. I mean, I'm, I'm super invested, and I have to play everything.

00:38:58:09 - 00:38:59:17
Wade
You were a kid and.

00:38:59:17 - 00:38:59:23
Wade
Yeah.

00:38:59:23 - 00:39:00:08
Tylor
So being a.

00:39:00:08 - 00:39:01:14
Wade
Kid, it's.

00:39:01:16 - 00:39:22:27
Wade
All of us. I mean, when we play games as kids, we're not like thinking these deep dives. Philosophical, sort of like why? What's their motivation here? We're just playing a game for fun. yeah. But the stark contrast from Advent Children, where you're following cloud and TFSA crisis Core, where it's like you've got Zach and you've got Angel and Genesis and it's Sephiroth.

00:39:22:29 - 00:39:50:11
Wade
We've got some glue there. But, yeah, it's it's interesting because I just, people contact me all the time, because I, I say that you can play remake without playing the original game like that. That is my, like, thesis all the time. And people want to fight me and, like, go to the mat all the time on that one, and I, I'm just I'm digging in on this because I'm like, you kind of have a proof of concept here.

00:39:50:11 - 00:40:00:00
Wade
Even though you knew about the original game, like what drew you in was not the original game. And I think that that is really important. I note it.

00:40:00:00 - 00:40:00:11
Wade
Makes me.

00:40:00:11 - 00:40:19:13
Evan
Curious. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Oh, I thought I interrupted you. Sorry. it makes me curious. You talk about value, right? Than the value that different things bring to the experience value of being able to experience the original, the value that you see, and being able to grow up in a digital age and kind of get to come of age as technology improves.

00:40:19:13 - 00:40:50:20
Evan
So you're kind of always understanding that next wave. I wonder, as an avenue of your life that isn't necessarily professional, but informs your kind of professional and work? What value have video games had for you over the years growing up as a child, and then as you've gotten into high school and college, what does it mean to you to get to experience a video game and what is that like, and what value does it provide and has it provided in your story?

00:40:50:22 - 00:41:00:18
Tylor
it is a source of connection to my family. that's my fondest. It's even now we play games together still.

00:41:00:18 - 00:41:01:27
Evan
That's so cool.

00:41:01:29 - 00:41:27:12
Tylor
so doing that. Also, as an artist, I appreciate the art. Creating something some of the it's more than a movie and it's more than a play. It's more than a book. It's all together. And I'm just appreciating the art my whole life through it. You know, it's moving art. And there's something I appreciate about the beauty of it.

00:41:27:14 - 00:41:48:14
Tylor
it inspires my creativity and I absorb it as a source so I can help produce. Yeah. and it gives, it gives me a source of, Have. True. It's it's hard to explain as an artist being inspired by something.

00:41:48:17 - 00:42:06:00
Evan
let's try, let's try to what? So when you. So there's a spark of something that happens for inspiration, right. Like there's. Is that what it's like for you? You're just going through your day and then there's a moment and you say, oh my gosh, I feel this way. And now I feel inspired. Describe is that how it is for you?

00:42:06:01 - 00:42:25:19
Evan
You're just like, you see something or something moves you one way and then now you're inspired. Can you capture that feeling? Is it excitement? Does your heart rate get going? Do you start thinking about, all these ideas? Do you immediately want to go grab something? To draw it, you need to write it down. Like when when you capture that moment of inspiration, talk us through that.

00:42:25:19 - 00:42:38:24
Evan
Like split second. What goes on in Tyler's brain?

00:42:38:27 - 00:42:43:11
Tylor
I want to show what people I want to. I get extremely excited. I have.

00:42:43:12 - 00:42:44:12
Evan
Okay.

00:42:44:14 - 00:42:48:00
Tylor
I have a really I'm very emotional person.

00:42:48:03 - 00:42:49:00
Evan
Okay?

00:42:49:02 - 00:42:53:00
Tylor
I cry, I happy cry all the time.

00:42:53:00 - 00:42:54:18
Evan
I love happy crying.

00:42:54:20 - 00:43:26:25
Tylor
Nostalgic cry. at music makes me cry. it's. I was in tears most of rebirth authentically. And I tried to I tried to, see why. Why do I cry all the time? I mean, in a genuine way. and I think beauty makes me, beauty. Mutant beauty moves me, and it makes me cry. Games are beautiful to me.

00:43:26:28 - 00:43:39:00
Tylor
The arts that they. It's the passion that people put into it. I appreciate the hard work they put into it, and I appreciate as an artist.

00:43:39:02 - 00:44:10:06
Tylor
How they go about it, and especially if I love it. Final fantasy seven does really well with characters and something pure. There's something pure and good and it captures good things. I don't know, there's a Philippians four eight is like a major verse for me. It's whatever is good, whatever is, Whatsoever things are true, honest, just pure.

00:44:10:06 - 00:44:31:07
Tylor
Whatsoever things are of good. Report that verse I really latch on to that. And when things represent that to me, I get moved because it connects me with God as my home, as the source of beauty. so that moves me to cry. And I want to share that with people. I want to share how I feel and express.

00:44:31:07 - 00:44:33:03
Tylor
I want to reflect it back to people.

00:44:33:03 - 00:45:10:12
Evan
Share how I feel like that. That's so good. Because you talked about how the impact of your challenges that you dealt with in high school, with your skin, with the way that you felt with your emotional state and with your the state of your spirit, was all connected. and so to then have the moment of inspiration be something that is something that you see, something physical that then expresses something in your spirit and then in your emotions, and then it moves you to action and gratitude and appreciation to have that same pathway.

00:45:10:12 - 00:45:40:22
Evan
That was that first time that you felt like you started, stopped kind of working in grayscale and started seeing light and color being the way that you describe what that inspiration is and moves you to action. And sharing is a really cool dichotomy, because it's not a long process anymore. Right? It sounds like you recognize what it is you've learned about yourself, you've learned about who you are, and you have like a journey that you have been through so that thing that took six months to draw before now happens for you.

00:45:40:22 - 00:46:03:25
Evan
In these small moments, as you've grown professionally, as you've matured and as you age to that healing process, being able to be something that you can tap into instantly to recognize that when something's moving you, that's inspiration. That's a really neat journey that you've been on for the last ten, 15 years. To be able to do that and then to be able to have the output that you do professionally because you put out of a high volume of work as well.

00:46:03:25 - 00:46:10:25
Evan
I love to talk about that at some point, like, yeah, yeah. How are you? How are you doing so much? Tyler?

00:46:10:27 - 00:46:37:24
Tylor
Oh, while going into the transition, I didn't want to do pastels anymore. I wanted to express differently photorealism, copying. What I see was becoming a, I trust the process. I'm getting really good at it. There's nothing more than to just do caps draw what I see. It's going beyond that now. I want to be creating what I see.

00:46:38:00 - 00:46:48:25
Tylor
I want to create instead of copy. I want to evolve, I want to I want to evolve. I want to get to that next level. Yeah. I don't want to copy anymore. I want, I want to make.

00:46:48:27 - 00:46:50:28
Evan
Instead of copy. Is what you said. Yes.

00:46:50:29 - 00:47:17:02
Tylor
Oh well. Yes. Okay. I don't want to. I don't want to copy things. I that's all I was doing was getting things just right. I'm looking at this. I'm going to make sure it matches it. Just like how I see it. I think I want to create beautiful things and not just copy. So that's that was hard for me because being a photorealistic artist, you rely on a reference 100%.

00:47:17:02 - 00:47:41:17
Tylor
There's no, I was trying to enhance it with a lot of visual interest, which, differentiated my portraits from others, which was high, strong highlights. white was a big part of it, which is strong light and a lot of detail and texture and but still looks photoreal. I wanted to translate that somehow I make that.

00:47:41:20 - 00:48:05:22
Tylor
So I used Final Fantasy as the source of practice, in my digital art. and so, it's my first one was I drew Sephiroth. and I try to match the feeling of pastel and chunkiness and digital art, which is very hard to do. It requires a lot of texture work and noise. And, it was hard at first because I'm used to texture.

00:48:05:22 - 00:48:29:07
Tylor
I'm used to messy. And yeah, pastel is the exact opposite of clean digital art. It's messy and whatever happens, you're happy that it happens on accident or happy accidents like Bob Ross. You know, there's that many accidents in digital art. You make everything happen. Really? intentionally. So, yeah. it was a very hard thing to do, which is why I wanted to do it.

00:48:29:14 - 00:48:40:15
Tylor
And, it's been very, very, very hard every single time. but now it's getting easier. I still it still feels fresh to me, but I've been doing it since 2020. Now,

00:48:40:17 - 00:49:00:02
Evan
That is wild. Well, you talk a lot about, getting out of your comfort zone. And you, it's important to you that once you gain a competency in something, you kind of are questing. It seems like for that next thing that's going to push you out of your comfort zone. And so you decided that it was time to change lanes and go into the digital art way.

00:49:00:02 - 00:49:16:10
Evan
Do you talk with your students a lot about this? And you know what? You you know who you are. You start to figure it out. You figure out what you're comfortable with, but then you also see these opportunities to challenge yourself, and it's important to take advantage of those opportunities. I'm curious what your brain is processing right now.

00:49:16:10 - 00:49:25:26
Evan
I don't know why I made like a this is like you screwing in like your Frankenstein thing. It's me. It's like I was saying, you know what that thing,

00:49:25:29 - 00:49:55:12
Wade
Where there's so many things that you have said that deeply resonate with me. thinking about the inspiration piece for a moment. I think it was a professor. I. I'm not entirely sure where I got this phrase, but I remember hearing someone one time saying inspiration is kind of like light piercing the caverns of my once dark soul.

00:49:55:12 - 00:50:22:10
Wade
And then it begins to that light begins to flood that entire cavern. And then, once full, it begins to overflow out of me. So it's it's this image that I was, was thinking about with you because you notice something and it's like, oh, that resonates deeply with me. And then you process it and then it just kind of bubbles up and then you have to let it out.

00:50:22:13 - 00:50:26:02
Wade
It really does that resonate with you? Is that the.

00:50:26:02 - 00:50:31:05
Tylor
Process that is that is amazing visual art there. I mean, I've never heard that before.

00:50:31:07 - 00:50:36:09
Wade
Yeah. I wish that I could perfect someone. because I don't. You just got to steal it.

00:50:36:10 - 00:50:43:27
Evan
Wait. Made it up. It's ours now. Copyright. Nobody else can have it. Yeah, nobody else is allowed to talk about like, caves overflow.

00:50:43:29 - 00:51:29:03
Wade
But I can see how as an artist, the pursuit of that inspiration, is it gives you a way of seeing the world around you and engaging in a medium in a completely different way. And I think that it also validates your desire to create something to to receive new inspiration rather than to just copy former inspiration. And to our discussion today, I think you've given me, new language and understanding for the developers, a Final Fantasy seven remake and rebirth where they could have just copied what worked in 1997, but they are wanting to create something new based on fresh inspiration.

00:51:29:03 - 00:51:34:11
Wade
And I think that that really grounds the way that I can think about this new trilogy.

00:51:35:20 - 00:51:51:29
Wade
How does that pursuit of inspiration and creation versus copying, how does that, frame the way that you approach Final Fantasy seven rebirth.

00:51:52:01 - 00:52:03:03
Tylor
At correlates it's perfect. It's exactly the same. because I understand how creatively.

00:52:03:06 - 00:52:36:01
Tylor
Lost and stagnant and almost dead, you'd feel doing exactly the same thing 20 years later. especially of artists of their caliber. They're like world class artists wanting to. And they they their messages are, more impactful than any other story. They impact so many people like, it's almost like everyone you meet is impacted by a Final Fantasy story and especially Final Fantasy seven.

00:52:36:03 - 00:53:18:13
Tylor
So those people, like, naturally just want to do that more, do it again, differently, but do it have that impact and more and not just that impact before because they've already done it. they want to do it again. But fresh and fresh is key for artists. I think being fresh, especially for those that have a message like courtesy in the team, you know, they I know they really want to express something deeply and something that kind of has never been done before in the meta narrative of this new trilogy.

00:53:18:20 - 00:53:33:03
Tylor
I don't think it's ever been done before. Right. I mean, I've heard Evangelion and all that kind of stuff, the way the story's been structured, but even in the the scale of it, like the Lord of the rings trilogy, Lord of the rings is my favorite movie, by the way.

00:53:33:24 - 00:53:39:23
Tylor
Nor the way they film that. It was a huge commitment. They're putting that effort into this trilogy.

00:53:39:27 - 00:53:40:18
Wade
Yeah.

00:53:40:21 - 00:53:43:10
Tylor
I don't think another studio is ever going to do this ever again.

00:53:43:13 - 00:53:43:23
Wade
Yeah.

00:53:44:00 - 00:54:04:26
Tylor
I don't even think it's viable to do it now. I don't think any company is going to risk trying to do it, but they are the team to do it. And the artists. I think she's one of the few artists team in the world that could do what they're doing. So I'm really I accept I, I'm, I'm here for the ride and excited for what they do.

00:54:04:26 - 00:54:13:04
Tylor
So I'm not I'm not like a I'm a purist in that way. I appreciate what they give as artists.

00:54:13:06 - 00:54:39:08
Wade
This trilogy, I've said a couple of times on stream and in other places, I'm not sure if this, trilogy will be deemed a success, financially marketable, marketability, all that kind of stuff. But I do believe that this trilogy will be significant. and I think that that is, I think that they want it to be successful. And I think that eventually it will be, especially once part three comes out and, you know, you've got this whole package sort of deal.

00:54:39:08 - 00:54:58:20
Wade
But what I can see now is that it is taking the form of a significant piece of art, of design, of storytelling that's really trying to push the medium forward, not really appreciate what they're doing with that. Evan, any other questions about the art? Because it feels like we're right on the precipice.

00:54:58:20 - 00:55:00:11
Evan
I think I have a good transition question.

00:55:00:11 - 00:55:01:12
Wade
Rebirth, please.

00:55:01:15 - 00:55:02:00
Wade
Okay.

00:55:02:03 - 00:55:42:11
Evan
Okay. So, from the perspective of a world class artist, which you are, and we just we haven't fawned over your work and effort enough. I think we missed that at the beginning. I think we probably talked more about it pre-show than anything. because I think people, you know, we just assume that people have context for who you are and, and the works that you've put in when you think about a remake, if you were to have drawn something 20 years ago and somebody was to ask you to draw it again, and maybe you have permission to reinterpret or or something like that from your perspective as an artist, could you help us get

00:55:42:11 - 00:56:04:11
Evan
into the mindset that they might be approaching this Re trilogy with, what are they thinking about when they're thinking about certain ways that they've maybe done something? And what would that look like for you if you were revisiting a piece of art that you did 20 years ago, and they were asking you to do it again? I think you have a unique perspective to talk about that from an artist.

00:56:04:11 - 00:56:22:11
Evan
Now, you know, I know that you can't speak for them in the team specifically, but from your perspective as an artist, when you revisit work, what does that process look like and what insights do you think it might provide us into some of the mindset of the team as they approach this project? Yeah.

00:56:22:14 - 00:56:49:23
Tylor
it's almost it's scary. It's scary for me to go back to an art piece and try to replicate it again and be better. It's to do it, to do it correctly or fulfilling life. For me, it needs to be better, but and also enhanced in some way, which is very challenging if it's your best work. I have a drawing I did in five days.

00:56:49:23 - 00:56:56:22
Tylor
I did it Robert Downey Jr, at a coffee at his coffee table in the Iron Man suit.

00:56:56:24 - 00:57:00:12
Evan
I've seen that play my best ridiculous.

00:57:00:14 - 00:57:11:10
Tylor
I think that's my best pastel drawing. And it took me five days. I, I listened to all of Matthew while I was drawing it. So that's I put a lot of Matthew into that drawing, but.

00:57:11:10 - 00:57:12:00
Evan
That's really cool.

00:57:12:00 - 00:57:20:17
Tylor
If I was to redo that again, there's, there's a there's a feeling of dread.

00:57:20:20 - 00:57:48:08
Tylor
But, and the person that wants to overcome being uncomfortable wants to do better than I don't want it to be less than. But. So it can't be the same. It can't be the same because I can't do it again. Exactly the same because I'm also a different person. I mean, I'm completely different person. so even me applying my art to create it is not the same as it used to be.

00:57:48:10 - 00:58:18:23
Tylor
and what I've learned since then, I think I might want to give a new message. Now. I want to I want to portray it in a different light, to represent how I am now. and I think these artists, especially, go with the flow of how they are in the present and look for the future. so I think the, they're doing something very difficult and doing this, but they're doing it smart, I think, is the smartest way they could have done it.

00:58:18:26 - 00:58:45:01
Tylor
And being fresh in this new take, I think for me it's genius. It's most genius concept. The whole concept of the remake being. Where your brain goes as you discuss and we talk about this for in between the games, you know, and I've never experienced this before. It's awesome. I think it's the best thing ever. And I want it.

00:58:45:01 - 00:58:46:04
Tylor
I want to do it forever.

00:58:46:06 - 00:58:49:02
Wade
You know. Well they've they've done it.

00:58:49:05 - 00:59:28:19
Wade
It's created opportunities like this right, where you can guess and conjecture and theorize and appreciate even in the, the moment. you know, I think that what you've just said, you know, anyone who has created anything, whether it's YouTube content, gaming content, music, art, all of those kind of things, I think they resonate with what you're saying, and they can bring in that same sensibility to this remake trilogy, because those who create, when we think back to the early things that we created, we might look at that me like, oh, there's a million things I'd do differently now.

00:59:28:24 - 01:00:04:09
Wade
Yeah, but you had no context. You had no concept of what you currently know. Back then there was a, there was an author, oh my goodness, I wish that I was better at citations. my dissertation committee would fail me today. but I remember, there was a speaker, a woman author who said one time, when asked about some of her earliest works that she had published and currently disagreed with, she was asked, do you regret it?

01:00:04:12 - 01:00:29:04
Wade
And she said, I don't regret it. No. But instead of think of it like the innermost circles within a tree, those circles within that tree were necessary for my growth to become who I am today. I would not be able to create what I do today without those innermost circles, and so I wouldn't change a thing of that, because I am who I am because I was then.

01:00:29:06 - 01:00:53:01
Wade
And that is so much the process of art for me. We would not have remake, trilogy or rebirth or any of that without the artist creating that original piece, and then for them to revisit it today, in this time, in this context, because all art, all creation happens within the time and identity of those in the present moment.

01:00:53:03 - 01:01:04:25
Wade
we can't take away that at all. So of course it's going to be different, and that is not going to sit well with people that don't understand the timeliness of creation in art.

01:01:04:27 - 01:01:06:07
Wade
Yes, and we certainly.

01:01:06:07 - 01:01:07:15
Wade
See that on Twitter and social.

01:01:07:15 - 01:01:11:13
Wade
Media. Yeah, that that it's not the same. Grab your pitchforks.

01:01:11:15 - 01:01:27:22
Evan
So you said it was like you just first described it as scary, like revisiting a piece would be scary. Then you said that it would fill you with dread. Then you said that it was difficult and you said it would be intimidate. Those are all. Yeah. So honest.

01:01:27:25 - 01:01:28:05
Wade
Yeah.

01:01:28:06 - 01:01:50:06
Evan
And so indicative of the respect that you would have for the process that I just did not expect for that to be your answer. It is so authentic to someone who had to experience it. I could tell you were thinking my gosh, if I had to revisit Tony Stark at the coffee table, this I would feel so intimidated by this task.

01:01:50:09 - 01:01:59:23
Evan
How do you think that reverence for the task impacts your appreciation of it as you've played the game? Now?

01:01:59:25 - 01:02:19:18
Tylor
The fact that they've succeeded and and what they've they've succeeded in my eyes and gone beyond what I could even hope for because we imagine it before the it comes out. It's exceeded all my expectations because they're doing it faithfully, still being fresh with it.

01:02:22:24 - 01:02:45:15
Tylor
I'm kind of speechless over how well they do. because when you first hear them talk and remake, you didn't even. I could not even imagine the conversations they would have and how they would how they would elaborate on the text and what they would say to each other. You think it would just be a couple lines? It might be enemy robots because they're not they haven't had good voice direction.

01:02:45:18 - 01:02:59:15
Tylor
No, but their voice direction is like world class. Now, that kind of stuff, blows me away. And the art kind of just it's almost like the art is.

01:02:59:17 - 01:03:32:09
Tylor
The art is almost the easy part. This is going to be hard to explain. The art that they're doing is like the grind, the hard work. We can create cloud in the models in the world and the landscapes. The art is portraying. This. Their message, as impactful as the original was, but new with this, with the template of FF7 and the legacy that it's because before there's no legacy.

01:03:32:12 - 01:03:52:13
Tylor
When when something is brand new, it's just brand new. And here it is. This has legacy to back it up. Expectations, which expectation makes it even harder, especially if it's one of the most beloved things of all time. If it is my most beloved artwork that impacted millions, I feel even worse. Do you think you know the.

01:03:52:14 - 01:04:05:29
Evan
Expectations when you're making something as an artist? Like when you when you've been commissioned to do something or you're making a very famous character or like, does the weight of those expectations create some pressure? And what does that experience like as you're creating it?

01:04:06:01 - 01:04:31:11
Tylor
I oh man, every artwork, I try it, I want it to be my best. So I have very high expectations of myself. Anyways. I want to be I want to be my best every time. that's me just pushing myself. but the,

01:04:31:14 - 01:04:32:22
Tylor
That's my train of thought.

01:04:32:24 - 01:04:39:09
Evan
There you get. What are the expectations, right? You said each time you want it to be your best. But what is the weight of expectation?

01:04:39:09 - 01:05:10:14
Tylor
I remember on art, I remember, I remember, okay, it's a bigger responsibility when you're commissioned something. And I've been being commissioned by voice actors all year. There's, That responsibility is very heavy. It's much heavier than. It's me deciding to draw something to share with everybody. Yeah, and I have. I have my own plans. But someone who is the voice actor of the character itself, like Ben Star asked me to draw Clive.

01:05:10:16 - 01:05:37:12
Tylor
He asked me to draw two Clive's, and he had very specific things he wanted me to portray. And he, he, like, has ownership of this character very I expectations from him and from everyone that sees Clive has expectations of how he's represented. So I felt very heavy trying. It was very hard for me to push through that because I wanted it to be amazing.

01:05:37:15 - 01:05:53:16
Tylor
for him. And it's, it's a it's a new experience because I'm not commissioned by these high profile people lately. And this is a new thing for me. so, yeah, that was a new experience. That was I was surprised by how.

01:05:53:17 - 01:06:07:05
Wade
Well I thought it was. You absolutely nailed. Oh, yeah. The the, esthetic for Clive and Turrell when I think sitting beside that thing. In fact, just to prove it to you, my home screen is that image.

01:06:07:05 - 01:06:11:26
Wade
While there's no way like, I absolutely love it.

01:06:11:26 - 01:06:14:15
Wade
You posted on Twitter, I was like, well, that's my new home.

01:06:14:21 - 01:06:15:26
Evan
But I feel that.

01:06:15:26 - 01:06:16:19
Wade
You know, we.

01:06:16:22 - 01:06:18:08
Tylor
Thank you.

01:06:18:10 - 01:06:20:13
Wade
I'm honored man. It really.

01:06:20:13 - 01:06:30:16
Wade
Really moves me. And so I, I look at that and I go to teach my Final Fantasy 16 class and I'm like, oh, that's the vibe of good and light and all that stuff that I want to bring to this place.

01:06:30:18 - 01:06:31:26
Wade
So thank you for that.

01:06:31:26 - 01:06:48:01
Evan
Hey, everybody, welcome to that time in the episode where we get to know each other a little bit better. That's our mini game, stretch break. And before we hit our theme music with Tyler Hepner here, let's get some stretching in. So everybody, let's get some stretches. Maybe do a little arm circle here. You could even do some hands stretches right.

01:06:48:01 - 01:07:05:12
Evan
Here we go. So listener, wherever you find yourself today just take a little moment and take a break. Cracking her knuckles. just be present. Just release some of the stress. Take a deep breath in through your nose and out.

01:07:05:12 - 01:07:15:21
Wade
You're my yoga instructor, and I appreciate that about you, Evan. Sometimes it feels less like a stretch and more like a flex. we go, you know, maybe that's it.

01:07:15:24 - 01:07:37:29
Evan
And for those of us in the tiny little boxes, let's hit that theme music. 321. Bam bam bam bam bam, love and, Oh, beautiful. Way to go. Way to go. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we have the bingo wheel. Have vulnerability numbers one through 50 inside of it. And we have Tyler Hepner here with us. So Tyler is our guess.

01:07:37:29 - 01:07:42:13
Evan
Which number would you like to pick?

01:07:42:16 - 01:07:46:13
Tylor
40 years in the desert, 4040.

01:07:46:15 - 01:07:52:16
Wade
Wade 18 for the number of national championships that my team has.

01:07:52:18 - 01:08:04:05
Evan
14 for the actual number of national championships that you have. All right. Here we go. So, 14, 18 and 40. Tyler, help me win. Okay.

01:08:04:07 - 01:08:10:07
Evan
Now. All right, here it is. Oh, oh, did my sleeve. Oh, it's. Oh. All right, here we go.

01:08:10:07 - 01:08:11:15
Wade
We really need a safety net.

01:08:11:15 - 01:08:24:03
Evan
Oh my gosh, Tyler, you were so close. The number is 50. We've never gotten 50 before. You were so close. Better luck next time. Oh, he has to come back. All right, so give us the 50th question there from our therapy cards. Wade.

01:08:24:04 - 01:08:35:00
Wade
Okay, here it is from our geek therapy card deck for clients and therapists. 87 Practices to improve thoughts, build insight, and take action in your life and de-stress. This comes from pop culture.

01:08:35:03 - 01:08:45:12
Evan
I love that you've read the entire idea. Yeah, it's geek therapy and the Hero's Quest journal. Don't know what you're doing for them. They do. You need to be on the list.

01:08:45:14 - 01:09:09:24
Wade
Here's the thing I always consider this like a test run for one day when we may have ads, which I just feel like things, you know, we're better. Anyway, here it is. It's about pop culture. Today, personality characteristics have been known to influence our choices in popular culture, such as what color lightsaber we would wield or what house we might be sorted into in something like Harry Potter.

01:09:10:01 - 01:09:29:12
Wade
What characteristics of yourself do you think influence your interest in geek culture? Well, what characteristics of yourself do you think influence your interest in what they might call geek culture? And we say that very, very lovingly.

01:09:29:14 - 01:09:36:16
Evan
Well, I can go first, to, to open us up. but, Tyler, if you have your answer, I will offer the floor to you.

01:09:36:18 - 01:09:37:23
Tylor
Now go ahead. I'm thinking.

01:09:37:23 - 01:10:05:12
Evan
Great. I think for me, it is, especially when it comes to geek culture and my personality. I love the level of detail that fans of something will go into detail, exploring the why in the house. So even back to, like, my Star Wars days when I was a kid, I'd pop the VHS in to the tape, the VCR, the tape player, the VCR, and I would play Star Wars.

01:10:05:12 - 01:10:27:18
Evan
And there were these little droids and little people and all these little side characters and then I could go to the library and I could check out a book that would tell me a little bit about all these little droids and all the side characters and where they were from. And I just love the infinite wealth of knowledge that a lot of these kind of geeky, more geeky hobbies are.

01:10:27:18 - 01:10:44:02
Evan
I think it's just you can you get curious and you can just chase that rabbit trail about as deep as you want to go. And, there's a lot of people who are also like that. So it's a cool coming together moment, I think for people who are fans of things. And that's what I appreciate. Wait, Tyler, what about you guys?

01:10:44:04 - 01:11:02:21
Wade
I'll go next. So, when I was first introduced to, this culture, I guess, I was not necessarily in a space where, or in, a level of self esteem where I felt like I could really go on big adventures and stuff. And one thing that drew me to this was that sense of adventure.

01:11:02:21 - 01:11:23:12
Wade
The stories that were larger than life, and whether it was through video games or books or movies that I liked, I felt like I was a part of something big, and it really inspired me to have that kind of adventurous spirit. I really think, in college I was able to to travel a good deal, do some study abroad, and, I didn't know anybody on those trips.

01:11:23:14 - 01:11:46:00
Wade
and I remember my family saying to me, don't you want to go with, like, friends and stuff? And I remember saying, no, it's okay. I got this. And it really kind of bolstered, that that was bolstered by some of these adventures that I had taken as a middle schooler in high school or through video games and some of the media that I like, but that that desire for adventure and something that was a little bit larger than life is what drew me in originally.

01:11:46:03 - 01:11:50:26
Wade
Very well. What about you?

01:11:50:29 - 01:12:53:17
Tylor
there's a strong desire in me to uphold and share goodness and beauty, and fight evil. And that's very, very basic. But I extreme distaste for evil and. I share Zach's positivity and being a hero. upholding morals and having a strong, conviction. I have a very strong conviction, to uphold high moral, high morals. So, especially Zach's character and a lot of, Lord of the rings has inspired, a sense of conviction to fight and uphold goodness and spread it and reflect, every ounce of light that I can, and overcome the fiery darts that come our way.

01:12:53:17 - 01:13:07:15
Tylor
You know, like with the ring and Sephiroth and the whispers and I'd like to combat that with, strong armor. I'd like to keep that armor on, and there you go. So, yeah.

01:13:07:17 - 01:13:09:29
Wade
Conviction. That makes sense. That's great.

01:13:10:01 - 01:13:28:26
Evan
That's awesome. Well, whether it's your curiosity, whether it's your confidence in a new journey or whether it's the strength of your conviction and making it stronger. Listener, we hope that you are inspired and able to reflect on some of the things from these cultures that you've enjoyed that really have been a positive for you, things that you appreciate.

01:13:28:26 - 01:13:36:29
Evan
So let's just practice a little gratitude this afternoon, evening, morning, wherever you find yourself. And we're going to get back to that episode. Bye bye.

01:13:36:29 - 01:13:58:25
Wade
All right, so it's time to go into some of the specifics of rebirth. We've already kind of talked a little bit about, kind of the art artistry and, some of the idea of creation. but you mentioned that rebirth really resonated with you in a lot of ways. In fact, you said that, you had had felt it so deeply that you cried multiple times, maybe even throughout the entire game.

01:13:58:25 - 01:14:20:19
Wade
I wonder if you could share with us. Hey, I was there, too. I mean, just like a lump in my throat the entire time. what was it about some of these scenes in particular? And were there any scenes that you especially recall saying that just moved me? Like I felt that sense of inspiration and heartache and levity.

01:14:20:21 - 01:14:24:22
Wade
What was it about rebirth that you remember?

01:14:24:24 - 01:14:50:10
Tylor
Well, I want to say the whole experience moved me from from minute one. I'm surprised by how much I'm moved by it. I moved by, let's say, like Lord of the rings, I'm always moved by from nostalgia now, but all the epic moments really move you, move you and I get moved by nostalgia now, but with rebirth, those new,

01:14:50:12 - 01:15:18:12
Tylor
I had high expectations. but because we've loved, we've grown to love these characters so much and how they're portrayed and, there's a beautiful way they portray them and the characters and how they interact, how they talk to each other, how the music, melds all of that together. I don't know if it's something truly.

01:15:18:15 - 01:15:44:14
Tylor
Peaceful, beautiful. It really moves me to tears and moves me to tears. A lot of it does the comfort of it. There's a comfort level even just walking around, Cosmo Canyon at night. little things, little things like that. Seeing the sunset, seeing the grasslands and sunset being blown away by that in this, in the, all these, every little moment of just walking around.

01:15:44:14 - 01:16:06:16
Tylor
I mean I can't believe I'm walking around and I try to explore why I, I, why I moved so much. because I really am moved quite a lot, especially in the live stream sequence especially musical moments. but I think, when we see beauty.

01:16:06:23 - 01:16:08:19
Evan
In the game a lot in.

01:16:08:21 - 01:16:16:27
Tylor
The live stream sequence. Chapter nine, chapter nine, when, Tifa cloud. Yeah. Cloud pushes Tifa into the Mako.

01:16:16:27 - 01:16:20:16
Evan
And do you listen to music when you do your art?

01:16:20:18 - 01:16:21:09
Tylor
Oh, yeah.

01:16:21:11 - 01:16:26:17
Evan
Okay, so the so music and like, the visual connection is a big thing for you.

01:16:26:19 - 01:16:48:26
Tylor
Oh, yeah. So like, I listen to a lot of soundtracks. Oh, cool. Well I do I like soundtracks, I like movie soundtracks. it was constantly for my pastel era. It was constantly praise and worship music. but so like but a lot of ambient, and let's plays. I have less plays. I just think background and that's music in itself.

01:16:48:26 - 01:17:10:24
Evan
So I love that there's people who have made Let's Plays that have no idea that they have been inspiring your artwork like that. Yes. That's so cool that somebody, somebody made a let's play for some random game like Sonic the Hedgehog, and you're just sitting here drawing, watching us. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that is great. Sorry to try to derail us.

01:17:10:24 - 01:17:15:19
Evan
So you're talking about, the things that were meaningful to you about the life stream sequence?

01:17:15:22 - 01:17:18:21
Tylor
Yeah. So, there's something.

01:17:18:22 - 01:17:27:23
Wade
About the live stream sequence specifically from kind of that artistic standpoint. And what was it that made that work so well for you?

01:17:31:16 - 01:17:37:18
Tylor
The entire direction of the scene.

01:17:37:21 - 01:18:09:12
Tylor
The music choice and even, the pacing, I don't know. It's the it really touches on your soul, especially that moment because she might be dying. and she realizes it and she's. Coming to a realization of cloud and his childhood. And she's also seeing Cloud's perspective, which is very interesting to me. she's not seeing directly hers.

01:18:09:12 - 01:18:37:24
Tylor
She's seeing actually being, she's being revealed clouds. What cloud went through. that's that's very interesting to me. I that might mean something because it wasn't it was related to her. Yeah, but specifically in cloud. So cloud her connection to cloud her softness her. She has a lot of burden to carry. Upholding his, she's upholding him. She's like keeping him together.

01:18:37:24 - 01:19:01:18
Tylor
She knows that she's the she's the reason he even is portraying himself this way. like he he became cloud from the behind when he saw her. She made that connection with that flash. And he's like. And then when she found him on the sidewalk, it connected. And he became cloud from the evil home. So he's she's the connection to his past.

01:19:01:21 - 01:19:22:11
Tylor
And so she has a extreme burden to carry to keep him at least stable. But now she's she's lost and doesn't want to lose him and doesn't know what to do. And it really pulls on you, because how you care for someone and you want to help them, and sometimes you can't. You don't know what to do to help.

01:19:22:13 - 01:19:34:21
Tylor
and she's just doing her best. And there's a lot of sadness involved really moves you, you know? And then the music that they did, they chose to use, I don't know.

01:19:34:21 - 01:19:56:28
Wade
I see the entire presentation, really. I, you know, it's you bring up something really interesting when Tifa falls into the live stream in chapter nine, she does experience many of the memories that cloud has. Right? And when when people have near-death experiences, we always say, oh, you know, their life flashed before their eyes. But instead of TiVo's life flashing for her eyes, clouds does.

01:19:56:28 - 01:20:25:19
Wade
Yeah. And this is really curious, which, you know, is the stuff for fodder for theorists and people like me that, you know, just yap about this all the time. but it's the question of why. Why would the life stream make Tifa aware of clouds? Tender memories, most formative memories? Instead of giving her a moment of reflection for her own life and, well, what do you make of that?

01:20:25:19 - 01:20:27:09
Wade
Why? Why would they do that?

01:20:27:15 - 01:20:57:19
Tylor
This is either. It's either in context of the story, or it's part of the developers trying to tell us something about the overall context of like what? Sephiroth. I mean, the what the overall arching plot is relating to Tifa and how she's going to be a part of this in a bigger way. in context, it could be that she's so important to Cloud's development in this.

01:20:57:22 - 01:21:21:02
Tylor
They're like. They're like the most important people on in the life for the live stream. Yeah. Cloud's like a it's like the planet knows that they're important specifically, except for us targeting Tifa specifically, maybe, or the developers choosing to do this. But it could be target. Sephiroth, I think, is targeting Tifa way more than he did before because.

01:21:21:02 - 01:21:22:12
Wade
Oh, absolutely.

01:21:22:14 - 01:21:50:03
Tylor
I like the concept of a sequel, but not I know it's not. It might not be, but I enjoy the concept of it, of Sephiroth knowing it don't matter. Saffron knows more than he should. Yeah, that idea. And he knows Tifa more than he used to. Maybe he tries something different. Maybe the world knows that. And maybe, she is understanding things better.

01:21:50:06 - 01:22:15:00
Tylor
I think the ultimate thing is to drive a wedge between Cloud and Tifa, which is why there's so much indifference in the end. to make cloud have this dark indifference to everybody except Aerith. And that's a weird thing to me. at the end, it's very sinister and vibe for him to be so darkly indifferent to every single person that he.

01:22:15:00 - 01:22:40:15
Tylor
You think he cares about. And then, a weird fascination with Aerith. And I know they have a connection, but there's a, there's a weird, odd fascination that's not cloud smiles at the end of it. Children vibe. It's a sinister, I want you to be fascinated with me vibe. What for? Not the good reason to talk.

01:22:40:15 - 01:23:06:18
Wade
Talk a little bit more about that. What do you think is going on there? Because there is a, sinister, kind of dark sort of vibe there. I think you're right. And in fact, I've heard some people that are much more adept at music than I am do like an analysis saying that when Aerith shows up in those ending sequences, it's a, it's a, a riff or a subversion of the Jenova theme in some ways.

01:23:06:18 - 01:23:12:27
Wade
What do you make of some of this kind of dark tone? Something's off here. Yeah, with Aerith and Cloud.

01:23:12:29 - 01:23:49:21
Tylor
Yeah. So I'm I'm all about how I feel. and things really moved me. And I've been very much paying attention to how, things make me feel so seeing. Because it is the middle part. I think Cloud's at his worst. He's not at his best is not good. overall, it's not good. It's not. Advent children him in the pool, smiling at Cloud and Zach at the doorway, accepting, and feeling relief when he releases the shame and grief.

01:23:49:23 - 01:24:16:03
Tylor
He's not having that smile. He's having a, almost like mother, like Sephiroth mother fascination to Earth. that that's the vibe. It gives me a and I know a lot of people relate to that, especially that one scene, but also just in the way Cloud's acting towards her and and disregarding everybody else. It's like a wedge being.

01:24:16:05 - 01:24:18:04
Tylor
It's like a wedge being, being brought there.

01:24:18:06 - 01:24:30:05
Wade
Do you think that Aerith is, a manifestation of Jenova in the ending? That,

01:24:30:07 - 01:24:54:13
Tylor
So I think, yes, I think I think I like the idea. Okay. I know there's three possible possibilities that the devs have confirmed that you can think about. She's dead. She's in the live stream, she's, Or Jenova. Or is this a cloud schizophrenic type of concept where it says, you know, the inducement type of thing and or something like that.

01:24:54:15 - 01:25:20:18
Tylor
I think all three are in play because they every potential option option has just enough evidence to discredit or prove all of it. So I think it's because of that. It's very intentional that, that they did this so that we feel this way. It's supposed to be confusing. So I'm going to enlighten the possibility of Jenova because I enjoy that concept.

01:25:20:18 - 01:25:48:15
Tylor
Because I enjoy see, I enjoyed this special connection between Cloud and Aerith. Okay. I think that's sacred and beautiful and I, I am emotional every time I see them two on screen. And people, when you talk about Jenova as Aerith, it's like you're taking that away from them. Yeah, you take in that special connection between them, but that's not that has nothing to do with it because it's going to enhance their connection.

01:25:48:15 - 01:26:19:29
Tylor
And part three, for me, going through this at their darkest point. So if they do this, I mean, it's putting people in a scared situation. They are afraid and they don't like, Aerith being portrayed in a dark way. Oh, but but but it's for it. I think it's for a bigger reason. And I know people have elaborated that how he's going to be revealed, the truth in the end, in a more impactful way, with Aerith death and him being shown what actually happened.

01:26:20:01 - 01:26:39:00
Tylor
but I think I think he's rejecting and actively repressing everything. Actually, my first reaction to Tifa seeing cloud, I was surprised by my reaction was, was, does she think cloud killed her?

01:26:39:03 - 01:26:40:07
Wade
Although, yeah.

01:26:40:09 - 01:26:56:06
Tylor
That was not that was my first reaction. I'm surprised at my reaction because I'm so involved in this and what's happening. Yeah, like, why would I think that? No, I can't be that. But that was Tifa has a is like almost scared of cloud in a way and believe that he would do that. And that was my frame of thought.

01:26:56:06 - 01:27:23:01
Tylor
Like she would believe he would do that. Maybe. But, I think she's seeing what he's not seeing. but, I think he's coping with the loss in a way that he did with Zach. Yeah. And he's continuing that process with Aerith. And I think it's an ongoing thing where he's imprinting you, and Jenova is imprinting through him and continuously messing him up, and I think that's part of it.

01:27:23:01 - 01:27:46:24
Tylor
But I also think Aerith is there. She is. She is there. But he's like intuiting his her presence and, projecting a feeling of Aerith. animating and is being animated with Jenova cells in his mind. Okay. but so I think there's something it's very weird. It's very hard to explain.

01:27:46:27 - 01:27:48:26
Wade
Incredibly difficult to explain.

01:27:48:26 - 01:28:08:03
Tylor
All three are happening at once, I think. Yeah. I think I call young in psychosis. what's a big part of it? I think psychosis is a big part of what he's what what he didn't want to portray with Cloud's demeanor and all that kind of stuff.

01:28:08:05 - 01:28:47:21
Tylor
I think the dark indifference is a big clue to that. And it's very, making cloud unlikable for that purpose. And, and he's, he's rejecting anything that says otherwise to the scenario, like someone with psychosis or schizophrenia. Would they reject anything that rejects that? that goes against their delusion. Yeah. So that keeps happening. And I feel I really feel for Tifa because she has, learned pattern that the more she tries to help cloud see the truth, the worse things get every time she tries.

01:28:47:24 - 01:29:08:07
Tylor
And the more the relationships, like, turn sour, no matter what they do. Every time she tries, it gets worse. so it's almost like, she's on. I'm not going to try, I can't try. She'll get worse. I feel really bad for her. And she's I think she's the most important catalyst for him. And Sephiroth knows that.

01:29:08:09 - 01:29:09:07
Wade
Yeah.

01:29:09:09 - 01:29:25:05
Tylor
And he's trying to drive a wedge specifically between them and if he can do that, he can, force him into a new decision. To see death in a different light.

01:29:25:07 - 01:29:50:26
Evan
What is it like to think deeply about these stories and these characters, and then spend time creating them in, like, you're interpreting because you're away from the sort of realism, right. That was a big shift. And I try I don't mean to take us away from like, specifics on on the story, but I'm hearing this really deep analysis of character motivations and why you think they're the way that they are and how you think that plays out in the story.

01:29:50:29 - 01:30:06:27
Evan
And then you take that, and then you draw the character. And so your your opinion of the character, does it impact like the way that you portray certain parts of them, or do you draw certain characters thinking about certain moments, or do you draw them as a generality? Talk me through your process there.

01:30:06:29 - 01:30:29:02
Tylor
Oh, I want to capture the spirit of the character as authentically as I can, and as I guess I'm explaining this dark portrayal of cloud lately. I'm all about light, right? I'm all about good and purity and goodness. But something about getting into this darkness that enhances his comeuppance and when he becomes his true self. And I'm really excited about.

01:30:29:02 - 01:31:00:00
Tylor
So I'm capturing the dawn of cloud lately. So I drew like I'm drawing Puppet Cloud. that I drew one of him. He's all bloody, I imagine him, I'm imagining him in part three at his absolute worst, fully, fully taking over and the northern crater vibe. that was the goal for one of those were. I don't know if y'all have seen it, but, I'm thinking about how they would portray him later.

01:31:00:03 - 01:31:05:24
Tylor
so it's almost like an intuition of how the devs will create later on. Yeah, I.

01:31:05:27 - 01:31:31:23
Evan
I think one of the things that I really liked about that, that you're drawing that you're talking about is the, the way that you did the weight of where his weight sits, like his, the way his arms are and like how he's, you know, it's obviously still him and attached. But you do have almost that marionette vibe that you conveyed, with visually, which I think really I felt like connected to kind of his spirit and his psyche at the time.

01:31:31:23 - 01:31:38:04
Evan
Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about how posture communicated that energy?

01:31:38:07 - 01:31:59:25
Tylor
Oh yeah, definitely the puppet vibe. And his like he's kind of contorted in a way the, the sword, it's extremely heavy and way down. Kind of like the ring. Kind of like how the ring feels. It's like he has a extreme burden at that moment. He. His head's not up. Burden is pushing down on him. yeah. That all that is going into that.

01:31:59:25 - 01:32:25:19
Tylor
And I'm imagining him at the northern crater. like, if he was fully roped but not roped. all those moments were his visceral reactions of, you know, when the the gang is like side eye and cloud and rebirth. All of those moments really made an impact on me. It's really sad to see him go through that.

01:32:25:19 - 01:32:37:21
Tylor
So I did a part three version of that. What's cool about that one is Cody Christian commented on it. oh really? Yeah. So I'm really proud of that. He's he hasn't commented on a lot of things areas.

01:32:37:21 - 01:32:38:17
Wade
And that's also.

01:32:38:18 - 01:32:42:22
Tylor
So his reply is under my public cloud and I'm really proud of that.

01:32:42:24 - 01:33:02:14
Evan
Oh, that's so cool. I think going back to your statement that draw what you see, not what you know, you're taking the time to observe what you see in the characters and what their journey is, and not just your assumption of the character really comes through to me. And I think that that is not easy. I imagine, to do that.

01:33:02:14 - 01:33:29:16
Evan
There's a lot of mental discipline that goes with it, both the physical discipline of the actual drawing. And I just want to say that I really appreciated that, that the thoughtfulness that you would take into the pictures, that when somebody, especially when somebody is like purchasing like a print and then, you know, they buy it and then maybe they give it to somebody or they want to see it on the wall, that you can know that you're conveying the spirit of what something is and what you see, not just like what you know of.

01:33:29:22 - 01:33:47:10
Evan
You know the apple and you know, I'm sure the, the, the puppet cloud is really upside down and our minds are what's turning it around. I get that okay. but I think that that's just really special. And I think that's something that people really appreciate about you in your work. And you just wanted to say, as a fan, thank you.

01:33:47:10 - 01:34:03:15
Evan
Like, that is that is really cool. It's been very neat to be able to have this discussion with you, to be able to ask follow up questions about what the when and the why and the how. And so I'm super appreciative of that as we kind of wrap up. Wade, what what else are we curious about and how do you want to kind of finish as well?

01:34:03:17 - 01:34:26:04
Wade
Tyler, one thing that I just want to say is like, I'm looking at this puppet cloud picture right now and, before the show, you mentioned, you know, you, are pretty new at talking about your thoughts on on the game and all of that kind of stuff. You let your work really speak for itself. And here's what I'd like to say to you as I look at this picture here.

01:34:26:07 - 01:35:06:01
Wade
people like, night sky and, and, Blitz and Schrodinger, and I suppose as well, we theorize and we hypothesize about what is the future. but you are able to draw and your theories show up on these, these, pieces, and it's like you may not be detailing all of the things that have broken cloud, but you have depicted cloud in this brokenness where I'm able to see for myself, like, okay, here's what's going on in his psyche, but you have perfectly captured that.

01:35:06:01 - 01:35:28:23
Wade
I don't know if you've ever thought about yourself as a theorist or I thought, this is from your artwork, but that's exactly what you're doing in a way that so vividly captures it in a way that my words can't even do. so I love that. I don't know if that was your anticipation in that, but you are contributing to this theory crafting in a way that, you can.

01:35:28:25 - 01:35:29:24
Wade
It's amazing.

01:35:29:27 - 01:35:51:06
Tylor
I appreciate that. I think that really means a lot, because one of the things that I'm I was shocked by, I want to I want to point this out at the end of rebirth, the CG scene, starts playing and you see cloud on the hill holding the materia. Yeah, my main artwork of cloud that I always it's on my wall.

01:35:51:06 - 01:36:11:00
Tylor
It's my on my banner. my favorite drawing of cloud is him sitting on a hill holding the materia. And I drew that two years ago, and I was like. And I was, I was like, oh, I got the moment. I captured the moment because I imagined. I tried to imagine future. I try not to draw what it's already been.

01:36:11:00 - 01:36:20:04
Tylor
I try to do new. Yeah, I, I completely started that moment and I saw it happen. And rebirth holding materia. I was blown away.

01:36:20:07 - 01:36:38:01
Wade
Oh my gosh. I'm seeing the timestamp on this. Like I just pulled it up on Instagram. It was June 21st, 2022. Yes, in that I literally I saw that recently and I thought he he drew the ending of rebirth. I didn't look at the year. Yeah that's incredible.

01:36:38:03 - 01:36:42:08
Evan
You you're a great you're a certified crazy person.

01:36:42:10 - 01:36:46:09
Wade
You give me touch what?

01:36:46:12 - 01:36:47:18
Evan
That is amazing.

01:36:47:18 - 01:36:54:27
Tylor
Like that's incredible because it's perfect. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's it's the same. It's the same layout. The the hills. You freak.

01:36:54:27 - 01:36:55:17
Wade
Out.

01:36:55:20 - 01:37:00:21
Tylor
I freaked out like that to. Come on. Yeah, I saw it. I saw it instant. It was crazy.

01:37:00:21 - 01:37:07:10
Evan
The that is like oh what is that okay. I mean, we're running out of time. We have to get a strong.

01:37:07:10 - 01:37:08:07
Tylor
Intuition for it.

01:37:08:08 - 01:37:19:16
Evan
Yeah, I know, I just we have barely scratched the surface. I mean, I truly think that we have barely scratched the surface on things that we should be and could be discussing. So you you have to come back.

01:37:19:19 - 01:37:20:16
Wade
Okay? Yeah, obviously.

01:37:20:17 - 01:37:34:24
Evan
You have to come back, but we need to know what is next for you. Like, are there things that you how can people find you? What would you like to share about? What would you? If there are a few things that you wanted to highlight that are upcoming for Tyler, what are they? Let us know.

01:37:34:26 - 01:37:59:11
Tylor
Okay, so I have a lot of I've been working on this rebirth series all year to celebrate, rebirth. I'm going to draw a new things, but this year I want to fully celebrate and give honor to how much rebirth has made an impact this year. So the rest this year I'm continuing with rebirth. I have a few announcements, soon with more voice actors.

01:37:59:13 - 01:38:22:21
Tylor
so look forward to that very soon. still working on projects with people, and by the end of the year, I'm working on a another giant, a poster that fully captures rebirth with everyone on it. It's going to be huge having started it yet, but I'm going to start it and finish it for, to celebrate.

01:38:22:21 - 01:38:46:23
Tylor
Hopefully game of the year hopefully gets game of the year and it'll be ready for that. So, I'll be continuing my, my art series for it. And just keep looking for more art every week as much as I can until that big one for game of the year. That's awesome. And that's on my, it'll be on Instagram and Twitter.

01:38:46:25 - 01:38:50:29
Tylor
I have my Etsy and they're all under my name, Tyler Hepner.

01:38:51:01 - 01:38:53:17
Wade
Tyler with an o t l o r.

01:38:53:18 - 01:38:56:06
Tylor
Hepner. Tyler. Yeah.

01:38:56:09 - 01:39:00:11
Wade
Making sure everybody we will obviously tag it in the description and stuff.

01:39:00:14 - 01:39:03:23
Evan
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank.

01:39:03:26 - 01:39:24:26
Wade
And you know, you are the first artist that we've had on here. I mean, everybody's an artist, right? But you're the first like traditional artist that we had on here. And it has been illuminating to, to listen to your creative process and to really conjecture about the developers. That's something that I'm really, really thinking about. Okay. Thank you.

01:39:24:26 - 01:39:29:23
Wade
Enough everybody go give Tyler a follow. And not only that, send him your money.

01:39:29:27 - 01:39:33:24
Evan
Like go buy some prints. You buy some money and he gives you art.

01:39:33:24 - 01:39:36:15
Wade
It's it's amazing how much can be used.

01:39:36:21 - 01:39:38:21
Evan
For assets and services.

01:39:38:23 - 01:39:59:15
Wade
Anything really. So just go. Go take advantage of that. again, everybody make sure that you are staying tuned to the channel so that you can stay up to date on all of our electric plays, as well as video essays and all of the content creator interviews just like this. And so, again, Tyler, thank you. stay tuned everybody.

01:39:59:15 - 01:40:06:23
Wade
We have more to come in the Final Fantasy seven rebirth lecture series. With that walked all my friends and we will see you in class.

01:40:35:23 - 01:40:52:19
Speaker 1
Thanks to Tyler Hepner for the awesome interview. Thanks to Huskie by the Geek for the use of our theme music. It's great. We love it! Thanks to Nick Smith for doing our graphics. Hey, take care of that digital sims family. They're not going to take care of themselves. And most of all, thanks to you. This show is brought to you by viewers like you.

01:40:52:19 - 01:40:58:21
Speaker 1
We really appreciate you. We hope everything's going great with you, and we'll look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Bye bye.