"Who Killed My Childhood??" : Final Fantasy VII Rebirth | PNWS Ep. 3
00:00:00:04 - 00:00:16:11
Wade
Hey. And welcome to the professor. Not this weekly show. I'm Wade and I'm Evan. And this episode we finish up the third part of our character creator series. And there's been a murder. It's. Oh, it's Wade's childhood. We start our true crime series. Let's get right into it.
00:00:22:19 - 00:00:44:09
Evan
Hello everyone, and welcome to our true crime segment of the show. Wade, you've finished Final Fantasy seven rebirth recently, and you asked a question that got you thinking. And that question was, why did they choose to tell the story this way? Tell us a little bit about that before we become a true crime podcast.
00:00:44:11 - 00:01:03:13
Wade
Yeah, I mean, I've been a fan of Final Fantasy seven since 1997, and, I'm very familiar with the story. So as I finished rebirth, there was a question of like, hey, I love this game. I love a lot of what they're doing with it, but why would you tell the story this way? And that is the question that I have really been left with.
00:01:03:16 - 00:01:20:12
Evan
Well, so we decided that an investigation was the only way to handle this. So we're going to become a true crime podcast now. And so, you know, you may see it feel a little bit of a shift in the energy and the tone, but you'll get used to it. And this investigation is one that we can all get on board.
00:01:20:12 - 00:01:36:04
Evan
So whether you've played any of the Final Fantasy games or not and whether you're a big fan or not, we're going to be able to catch you up and you'll have a good time all the way through. So, if you're like, I haven't played Final Fantasy seven rebirth, I want it to. Now, unless you're worried about spoilers, then just hang on and buckle up.
00:01:36:04 - 00:01:42:14
Evan
So, first timers, it'll be fun for you to wait. Are you ready to get in character.
00:01:42:17 - 00:01:59:28
Wade
Was born ready. All right.
00:02:00:01 - 00:02:03:25
Wade
All right.
00:02:03:28 - 00:02:10:16
Wade
I really love this segment. So. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
00:02:10:19 - 00:02:14:28
Wade
Every seven.
00:02:15:01 - 00:02:19:21
Wade
This is awesome. I'm leaving this in. All right.
00:02:19:23 - 00:02:26:11
Wade
Tongue in the teeth. Okay.
00:02:26:14 - 00:03:02:00
Wade
Every seven seconds. It's amazing how seven seconds can feel like an eternity. And yet no time at all. The alarm sounded. It was time. I'm 14 years old. Seven seconds is a long time for a 14 year old. The smells acrid, the excitement palpable. I check back my God, once you hear the pops every seven seconds, that's when you know it's done.
00:03:02:02 - 00:03:35:08
Wade
I was never good at microwaving popcorn. Couldn't get it right. That's why I interspersed it with my other favorite snack, Spicy Nacho Doritos. Snacks. Ready? I settle in for time with one of the defining stories of my childhood, cloud, Aerith, Tifa, Barret. All the characters we now know and love. The problem now is someone's tried to kill my childhood, and I aim to find out who.
00:03:35:10 - 00:03:45:14
Evan
It wasn't a mystery that we knew we could solve. It's just one that we knew we had to solve.
00:03:45:16 - 00:04:00:15
Wade
Within one line, I had one line. And I know why I can't do that. It's like you did such a good job. Oh, it's the blue filter. There's some heavy lifting. That's it for.
00:04:00:17 - 00:04:03:21
Evan
Oh my gosh, everybody.
00:04:03:23 - 00:04:04:06
Wade
Oh my.
00:04:04:06 - 00:04:05:07
Wade
Gosh.
00:04:05:09 - 00:04:06:27
Evan
Prof. Back to this everyone I.
00:04:06:27 - 00:04:09:18
Wade
Mean just thank you. Incredible move over.
00:04:09:18 - 00:04:12:11
Wade
Been star new vocal performer.
00:04:12:18 - 00:04:27:07
Evan
That's exactly it. Great job. So let's talk about this is a true crime format. Yeah. Why do you think of this as an investigation. And what on earth do you mean that someone has tried to kill your childhood?
00:04:27:09 - 00:04:27:18
Wade
I mean.
00:04:27:18 - 00:05:00:22
Wade
So many of us who grew up with the 1997 game Final Fantasy seven, we have these beloved nostalgic memories that make us always want to keep anything that could possibly alter that. And the makers of Remake and Rebirth in this trilogy, seem determined to subvert some of those expectations. And I think that for a lot of us at first kind of playthrough, it feels like they're doing something to metal and to murder our childhood, something that we love.
00:05:00:22 - 00:05:17:16
Wade
And so that's what got me thinking about, like, let's treat this like a crime scene. There may not be a crime scene, right? Like, I think that maybe by the third game they're going to stick the landing. It's like, oh, it was the friends we made all along. But for right now, there's tension, right? And that's why we're in this crime scene sort of thing.
00:05:17:16 - 00:05:20:03
Evan
Well, tension is good for storytelling, so.
00:05:20:03 - 00:05:21:06
Wade
Well, I about the truth.
00:05:21:06 - 00:05:21:17
Evan
Yeah.
00:05:21:17 - 00:05:26:18
Wade
So that looking like a reasoned and mature person with no nostalgia.
00:05:26:20 - 00:05:43:21
Evan
Well it's okay. Well, we'll get we'll get into what has alarmed you so much about it. Yeah. So let's set the stage. So for those who have never played Final Fantasy seven in the first place, the first game came out in 1997. You were 14 years old eating microwave popcorn and spicy Nacho Doritos.
00:05:43:26 - 00:05:44:17
Wade
That was me.
00:05:44:17 - 00:06:09:16
Evan
And so this is a sprawling story. It had three discs that you had to put into your PlayStation. and it was one of the best video game stories that had ever been told up to that point and still stands the test of time. so there's three things about it that you said kind of were scenes of the crime that you wanted to catch everybody up on that would help us to understand what we're going to be investigating.
00:06:09:16 - 00:06:24:24
Evan
And some of those major unresolved tensions that exist in rebirth Earth, that kind of challenge some of the original story. So for somebody who has never played the game before, give me the 32nd. What is Final Fantasy seven about?
00:06:24:26 - 00:06:56:20
Wade
Our fantasy seven is about, it's a traditional jRPG that riffs on the elements of what a jRPG is. You have the amnesiac hero, you've got a sorted party that journeys around to try to save the world. On the surface, it's a story of fighting against an environmental threat and saving the planet. but to go a little bit deeper, it's commentary on life, death, and the acceptance of the cycles of life and death.
00:06:56:23 - 00:06:58:28
Wade
there's a lot that's been made of of.
00:06:58:28 - 00:07:03:07
Wade
That, if that's. Are you shocked at that? So good at this. That is great.
00:07:03:14 - 00:07:06:07
Evan
and just for those who don't know, what is a jRPG.
00:07:06:09 - 00:07:32:22
Wade
A jRPG, great question. It's a Japanese RPG roleplaying game, right? And, yeah. And essentially these days a jRPG is an RPG that's made in Japan. But back in 1997, there was a very specific slant to it. It was a riff on the the D and D format with a very strong narrative. a lot of times turn based battle, but not necessarily and that sort of thing.
00:07:32:25 - 00:07:49:01
Evan
Okay. So introduce these three crime scenes to me and I'll help make sure that we're you just be authentically you, and I'll make sure that we, try and catch anybody up who might not know exactly what we're talking about, because this is the kind of show just so that you guys know, we'll peel back the curtain a little bit.
00:07:49:01 - 00:08:08:07
Evan
We want this to be approachable for everybody. This is great content that everybody can enjoy. And hopefully it makes you think about life and springboards into the life that you want in a deeper way. But we also want it to be something that isn't just totally niche. So you'll be able to, jump in and hopefully listen or share it with people who don't know much about it.
00:08:08:07 - 00:08:14:09
Evan
So it's not we're going to try and keep it, like 101 fun, fun academia entry level stuff.
00:08:14:11 - 00:08:16:00
Wade
Totally. I hope.
00:08:16:00 - 00:08:37:26
Wade
That people will care about Final Fantasy seven as a result of this. even if you don't like Final Fantasy seven, I don't think you like Final Fantasy at all. Hopefully you can find something worth, listening to here. So Final Fantasy seven, like I said, a second ago, this is one of the most cinematic masterpiece level games that's ever been created.
00:08:37:28 - 00:09:13:01
Wade
it broke out of the mold of storytelling that was either text based or, exclusively pixel based, into a fully immersive, cinematic cut scene sort of era with storytelling. It really set the standard for that. was the reason why, part of the reason, the main reason why Square soft back in, the mid 90s, jumped from the cartridge based Nintendo systems over to the disc based Sony PlayStation.
00:09:13:03 - 00:09:42:27
Wade
the reason for that is they wanted to be to be able to tell more immersive stories, and cartridges just didn't have the space allowed for that. And so they made that choice along with some other business decisions and things like that. But the reason that's important is because Final Fantasy seven, to this day, the original goes down as one of the most emotion, really impactful games and stories that's ever been told in video games.
00:09:43:00 - 00:10:15:27
Wade
in a lot of ways, modern games are trying to recapture, rekindle that flame that was started in that 1997 game and that leads to some of these crime scenes. So that's a long way of introducing this because that game was so heavily emotional. Yeah. The question is how do you recapture that in a modern game? And that leads to one of these, quote crime scenes, the first of which I would say is their inability to linger in emotionally raw moments.
00:10:16:00 - 00:10:37:25
Wade
this game moves at a clip, where moments that you feel like you should sit in sadness a little bit longer are halted or interrupted by another narrative beat or a goofy character or something like that. And the question is, why? Why would you do that? and I think that players have come to all kinds of different conclusions for that, but that's something that I think that we should explore.
00:10:38:01 - 00:10:50:10
Wade
Why would you tell the story this way, which may be the thesis? Why would you tell the story this way? In 2024 versus the way you did in 1997?
00:10:50:13 - 00:11:16:29
Evan
Okay. So help me understand this crime scene a little bit here. So you're saying in the first game, if there was a lot more space for the moments to breathe, and in the second game where you would normally linger and create like a greater sense of reflection and what was maybe appreciated about the first telling of this story, there's a little bit of, need to insert a joke, like they don't stay on the moments long enough.
00:11:16:29 - 00:11:18:03
Evan
What is it? What do you mean.
00:11:18:03 - 00:11:20:28
Wade
By yes and no?
00:11:21:00 - 00:11:22:01
Wade
so I guess.
00:11:22:01 - 00:11:39:02
Wade
What I mean is, have you ever watched a YouTube video where it's quick cuts from one thing to the next to the next, and it's like as you're processing the former thing, it's already too late. You're moving to the next one. This is really, really popular with middle.
00:11:39:02 - 00:11:41:16
Wade
Schoolers, right? So high schoolers.
00:11:41:16 - 00:11:59:20
Wade
And like I and I don't mean this in the grading way, I mean, look at even Mr. Beast. These are the kinds of cuts that you get with these. These really, really keep holding attention as a content creator. And in fact, we try to do this. I try to do this on stream a little bit. In 1997, storytelling was different.
00:11:59:20 - 00:12:26:24
Wade
Yeah. In 1997 you would have an emotional moment and then you would have the collateral of that emotional moment, and you would sometimes linger in that, for, you know, a good deal of time in game, game terms. Ten, 15 minutes here. An emotional moment happens. And maybe it's the story that they're telling this time around. but the beats feel much more interrupted is the best way that I can say.
00:12:26:26 - 00:12:54:07
Wade
So something traumatic happens and you have a couple of minutes maybe, to linger in it. But because everything is so grand and grandiose and so much bigger, yeah, you would expect there to be a corresponding level of, mourning or grief or trauma. And I, I imagine that will go to specific scenes in rebirth eventually. Yeah. But that that tends to be a theme that runs throughout this.
00:12:54:09 - 00:13:20:23
Wade
one other point of clarity, when we are talking about this game versus the first game, we are most of the time going to be talking about the original game in 1997, thinking of the remake rebirth re trilogy as, one entire game, so that we don't see this storytelling differentiation between remake and rebirth. They actually do the same thing.
00:13:20:25 - 00:13:23:14
Wade
but just wanted to clarify that.
00:13:23:16 - 00:13:40:19
Evan
Yeah, it was one game. Yeah, one game originally. And now because of technology and their ability to do storytelling, they basically break in, broken one game into three games. But it's really three. Well, it's three acts. The third one hasn't come out yet. and we don't know if so we'll have to update this.
00:13:40:21 - 00:13:41:23
Wade
So we will. Yeah.
00:13:42:00 - 00:14:08:20
Evan
When it comes to this, an inability to linger in emotional moments. Yeah. Just get your initial impressions. Do you think this is like, extension of the kind of Marvel ification of entertainment that people will say where, like, they'll break the tension with a joke to keep people interested in lighthearted? Do you think it's something that is because they can tell the story more visually?
00:14:08:20 - 00:14:30:20
Evan
Whereas before they weren't able to because they just had big black hands and they moved around. I'm moving your arms up and down slowly. for those of you who are listening, so they they can tell a more visual story without having to go straight into, like a cut scene in this one. So give me like, just what's your quick thoughts immediately?
00:14:30:20 - 00:14:32:06
Wade
What I would say is.
00:14:32:11 - 00:14:33:03
Wade
Oh, well, first.
00:14:33:03 - 00:14:56:24
Wade
Of all, the scenes are not broken up necessarily by comedic, interruptions every time. Sometimes it's a confusion, sometimes it's a plot diversion or something like that. So it's just there's there's a cat slicing moment that is fragmented, by another story. But it could be comedy, but it's not exclusively that. And so I want to be I want to be clear on that.
00:14:56:24 - 00:15:02:25
Wade
There's at least one that's like, whoa, why did you bring in this comedic character right at this moment? But that that's for another go over that.
00:15:02:25 - 00:15:19:21
Evan
As we investigate this crime scene, because we're going to bring in other investigators perspectives and theories here. Yeah, with them and kind of create a space for discussion and evaluation of kind of the lanes and crime scenes. Yeah, I think we're really able to evaluate that.
00:15:19:28 - 00:15:45:04
Wade
And that's it. I think that there's a lot of different opinions on this. I do think that some of it is, telling the story they wanted to in 1997, but we're limited by some of the tech. I also think that just storytelling has changed in the last, 30 years or so. and we're, we're kind of feeling the effects of that.
00:15:45:04 - 00:16:11:00
Wade
How do you tell a story that was popularized through a medium and through a method in 1997, in a way that still appeals and appeals more broadly in 2024? it's a huge challenge, right? I don't know if you can if you were to tell it the exact same way, I think that people would be disappointed if they just told it as they did in 1997 with a prettier glow up.
00:16:11:02 - 00:16:12:07
Wade
So anyway.
00:16:12:13 - 00:16:15:01
Evan
That's not going to please everybody too. So I mean, it's.
00:16:15:04 - 00:16:16:17
Wade
Not the truth anyway.
00:16:16:19 - 00:16:26:01
Evan
so what's the next crime scene that you kind of identified of our three? So we've been over the first one. Why didn't they linger in these kind of more emotionally brown moments?
00:16:26:03 - 00:16:52:18
Wade
Similarly, similarly to that, maybe one of the most emotional moments in all of video games. it's the way that they handle Aerith Fate, the way that they handle Eric's fate. If you, have just a cursory look at Final Fantasy seven rebirth spoilers. just to note, this is a spoiler for both the rebirth and for the original game.
00:16:52:20 - 00:17:16:26
Wade
People debate heavily what happened with Aerith at the end of rebirth. There was no ambiguity in the original game, and yet there's ambiguity here. And so one of the questions that we would have, about this is why would they tell this story this way? Now, I think there are a lot of compelling answers for this, and we're going to get to the bottom of some of those answers.
00:17:16:28 - 00:17:22:21
Evan
what about the way that they handled Eris fate in real.
00:17:22:23 - 00:17:24:07
Wade
Felt.
00:17:24:09 - 00:17:28:10
Evan
So and ambiguous to you? Sure.
00:17:28:10 - 00:17:57:00
Wade
Compared to full spoilers here, this is your final I have alluded, I have previewed this is your final, spoiler warning for this 3 to 1. It is unclear for a lot of people as to whether or not Aerith is dead at the end of rebirth. It is unclear. And because of that, there's there's scene changes. There seem to be two, worlds that are kind of merging within cloud.
00:17:57:00 - 00:18:08:08
Wade
Could it be cloud psyche? Could it be timelines, Marvel style? Could it be time travel? Who knows? There's not enough to really definitively answer that. But the way that.
00:18:08:08 - 00:18:09:17
Wade
It's all.
00:18:09:20 - 00:18:15:18
Wade
Brought together, stitched together leaves open possibility and conjecture for.
00:18:15:22 - 00:18:27:06
Evan
Okay, so just to set the stage for context for those who may not be familiar. Yeah, talk a little bit about cloud and who that is and how you like would control that.
00:18:27:08 - 00:18:28:03
Wade
Oh what a great main.
00:18:28:03 - 00:18:34:17
Evan
Character in the thing. And then what is the relationship with Aerith as simply as you can?
00:18:34:19 - 00:18:39:13
Wade
Sure. Cloud made famous from Smash Brothers and Kingdom Hearts.
00:18:39:15 - 00:18:40:06
Wade
Cloud is.
00:18:40:06 - 00:19:12:00
Wade
Your, your, spiky haired, yellow, blond haired protagonist with a giant sword. he is a mercenary and a soldier who is turning over a new leaf. Now he's chasing after a former hero who has gone, rogue. Essentially, his name is Sephiroth. Sephiroth allegedly died five years prior, but he seems to be back. And that's Cloud's central focus in final Fantasy seven.
00:19:12:03 - 00:19:42:21
Wade
so as he's chasing after Sephiroth, he meets he meets Aerith along the way, and Aerith is, a deeply, do you use non gamey type terms? She's very spiritual. She's very in tune with the planet. They're trying to save it, to listen to the the will of the planet and things like that. Anyway, for this Sephiroth person, she isn't maybe the greatest threat.
00:19:42:23 - 00:19:59:27
Wade
And so again, full spoilers. In the original game, Sephiroth kills her because she is perhaps the greatest threat to, to his plans and schemes, and it seems as though that's happened in rebirth as well. But again, it's ambiguous for some.
00:20:00:02 - 00:20:09:03
Evan
Let's just talk for a minute about how big of a deal that was at the time that that would happen in that game.
00:20:09:05 - 00:20:35:08
Wade
It's a big enough deal that NPR did a story on it. like they they interviewed games journalists and talking about classic, female characters that died that affected them. It wasn't just games journalists, but, several journalists said it was Aerith death, and they were, you know, a teenager when it happened. It was the thing that everybody knew about.
00:20:35:08 - 00:20:52:06
Wade
It is the worst kept secret for the last 30 years, because if you know games at all, you know, the Aerith died. Okay. It's not a spoiler anymore, which is an interesting thing, to retell that story in a way that could still subvert expectations. Good.
00:20:52:09 - 00:20:59:07
Evan
No, I think you're absolutely right. I think it's also, let's talk about how spoilers were spread in 1997.
00:20:59:10 - 00:21:04:01
Wade
Oh, you made on playgrounds. Yeah, that's what I'm saying for back in the day before the internet.
00:21:04:02 - 00:21:06:16
Evan
You didn't have a Twitter feed that you had to. You didn't.
00:21:06:22 - 00:21:07:00
Wade
It was.
00:21:07:00 - 00:21:14:29
Evan
A minefield. You couldn't go look up a video about what happened in a game. You had to read about it or be told about it.
00:21:15:02 - 00:21:24:10
Wade
Well, and back in those days, you know, I mean, I had AOL dial up, okay. Like the, the whole like and all that stuff.
00:21:24:12 - 00:21:29:12
Wade
So yeah. Or you got mail and yeah, we're really bad.
00:21:29:12 - 00:21:51:11
Wade
We, I mean, I nailed the vocal performance, but I'm not good at sound, sound effects. But I mean, back in the day, you would go into chat rooms, which are live forums, think of your Twitch feed or whatever, but they're just rooms where people could chat. And, after you got through, like some of the garbage of like, what's your age, sex and location sort of stuff.
00:21:51:11 - 00:21:58:02
Wade
As soon as you got into a room, you could talk about things. So I remember going to a Final Fantasy seven chat room, and this was.
00:21:58:03 - 00:21:58:23
Wade
It was the wild.
00:21:58:23 - 00:22:11:23
Wade
West of the internet back in the days. I remember coaching people. I remember coaching people in the chat on how to revive Aerith. Now you need to know you.
00:22:11:23 - 00:22:12:20
Wade
Can't revive.
00:22:12:20 - 00:22:36:19
Wade
Aerith in the original game. But I was 14 years old and I loved chaos. And so I was like, well, this is what you have to do. And I gave like a tedious step by step process for how to bring her back to life. And there was that really work. I was all garbage. I was a 14 year old making mayhem and, like they would go and do it and then I'd like, change my screen name and they'd never hear from me again.
00:22:36:22 - 00:22:42:22
Wade
You do? That's the real crime scene. I'm the idea that I want to.
00:22:42:26 - 00:22:47:26
Wade
Until Sersi to know it was me. I want her to know it's me.
00:22:47:28 - 00:22:49:18
Wade
You really. You really.
00:22:49:20 - 00:22:58:20
Evan
You really did. Out of force. Granted, that is hilarious and very mean to do because this was traumatic. Like it was.
00:22:58:22 - 00:22:59:22
Wade
It was very.
00:22:59:25 - 00:23:04:01
Evan
Comforting, nurturing figure while you play through this game and this.
00:23:04:01 - 00:23:04:19
Wade
Is wonderful.
00:23:04:19 - 00:23:13:11
Evan
And video game characters in my like from my memory didn't really die these like horrible, lingering, murderous deaths a lot.
00:23:13:13 - 00:23:16:19
Wade
She's straight up impaled. I mean you see.
00:23:16:19 - 00:23:17:23
Wade
It it.
00:23:17:25 - 00:23:34:17
Wade
I mean there's no blood and stuff. I mean, it is 1997 on the PlayStation one graphics, but it was it was handled. I mean, my jaw dropped. I remember the moment like I played through it and I knew some friends from school that were also playing through it. And so we would always update each other at lunch, like how far would you get or whatever.
00:23:34:17 - 00:23:53:25
Wade
And so I hit this moment in like several. It comes down the sword goes through her gut. Oh my gosh. And then like, my jaw drops. And then she did too. She drops to the ground and cloud catches her. You've got a boss fight and then you bury her in the water and then like clouds, like you have to continue with the journey.
00:23:54:03 - 00:23:58:29
Wade
And then it set, the screen goes to black and it says, end of disc one.
00:23:58:29 - 00:23:59:27
Evan
Yep.
00:23:59:29 - 00:24:12:09
Wade
Save. Insert disc two. So during that interlude, I call my friend Frank, okay? And I'm like, hey, where are you in the game?
00:24:12:12 - 00:24:16:04
Wade
And he is, he was at the part just.
00:24:16:04 - 00:24:34:19
Wade
Before all of that happened. Okay. In fact, he's on the phone. Yeah. And, these are cordless phones, by the way. There's these are not cell phones. They are landlines, but they're cordless because it was high tech back then. Yeah. And so I hear the music of the forgotten capital in the background.
00:24:34:26 - 00:24:38:17
Wade
Duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh.
00:24:38:18 - 00:24:51:13
Wade
And I was like, oh, I know exactly where you are. I'm just going to sit here on the phone with you. And he played through that part of the game, and I hear it the.
00:24:51:15 - 00:24:52:27
Wade
Huge.
00:24:52:29 - 00:24:59:15
Wade
Whoosh, and that's her getting impaled. And then you hear, oh.
00:24:59:17 - 00:25:03:15
Wade
And then you hear piano. Duh duh.
00:25:03:17 - 00:25:04:19
Wade
Yeah, duh duh.
00:25:04:19 - 00:25:21:07
Wade
Duh duh. And I hear Frank and he's going, oh my god. Oh my god, oh my God. And I'm just replaying it and reliving it. And so he gets the save point. And I was like, that's where I am too. And he was like what the just happened? And I'm like, I think she's dead.
00:25:21:10 - 00:25:22:12
Wade
And so we like spent.
00:25:22:12 - 00:25:26:13
Wade
30 minutes talking about it. What does this mean? Have we ever had a video game character.
00:25:26:16 - 00:25:28:22
Wade
Die like that.
00:25:28:27 - 00:25:35:12
Wade
In in our story playthroughs? And the answer was no, I had not. That was my first.
00:25:35:15 - 00:25:36:24
Evan
That is a.
00:25:36:26 - 00:25:38:12
Wade
We're getting into a lot of.
00:25:38:12 - 00:25:40:11
Wade
Trauma that I was not expecting.
00:25:40:16 - 00:25:42:13
Evan
But that's the nature of crime scenes.
00:25:42:15 - 00:25:43:20
Wade
That David Straub.
00:25:43:23 - 00:25:45:16
Evan
That's why this is a true crime.
00:25:45:23 - 00:25:47:17
Wade
And it's like my Baldur's Gate three playthrough.
00:25:47:17 - 00:25:48:11
Wade
It's just trauma.
00:25:48:18 - 00:25:52:01
Evan
Is it? This is it. We're investigating these crime scenes.
00:25:52:01 - 00:25:53:23
Wade
We are. It goes to.
00:25:53:23 - 00:26:10:13
Evan
The intensity of the emotions and the uniqueness of the experience, because anyone who played these games at that time, they all have like a moment. It's like, well, what was it like for you when you got to the part where Aerith dies? And can we talk about how much of a and disc one Fade to Black is.
00:26:10:13 - 00:26:10:22
Wade
So.
00:26:10:22 - 00:26:11:22
Wade
Much.
00:26:11:25 - 00:26:18:02
Evan
A like forced pause where you have to. And then can you imagine if you didn't have, like a memory card?
00:26:18:04 - 00:26:18:19
Wade
Oh my.
00:26:18:19 - 00:26:19:06
Wade
Gosh.
00:26:19:13 - 00:26:22:20
Wade
I can't imagine playing that game without a memory card versus.
00:26:22:20 - 00:26:24:06
Evan
Somebody. Did you you.
00:26:24:06 - 00:26:39:02
Wade
Know, somebody did somebody that came over from the Nintendo cartridge era because we didn't understand memory back then, like I did, and the PlayStation, in my recollection, didn't come with a memory card, or at least one that could hold Final Fantasy seven, I don't know, but.
00:26:39:04 - 00:26:40:00
Evan
We used a.
00:26:40:02 - 00:26:40:19
Wade
Different world.
00:26:40:19 - 00:27:04:02
Evan
For our birthdays or special occasions. We oh boy, this is going to now be very dating. We used to rent PlayStation or Nintendo from blockbuster. Yeah, we didn't have them. Great. We had computers. Yes, we're for very special occasion for the weekend, we would be allowed to go pick up the giant suitcase, fat. And so I remember this.
00:27:04:02 - 00:27:22:26
Evan
We preferred renting the Nintendo because you could save on the cartridges, and we didn't have to have our own memory card because we wanted the PlayStation. We had to leave it on all weekend to not lose our progress. I'd be Mega man legends, I think. Is that the RPG? Yeah, I beat that entire game without turning off the PlayStation.
00:27:22:26 - 00:27:25:25
Wade
Oh wow. Wow.
00:27:25:25 - 00:27:40:09
Wade
That's that is dedication and impressive. I did that with these games occasionally, I will say, because like before, they had whatever it was, the battery backup memory say. Yep. just didn't work. So we used.
00:27:40:09 - 00:27:52:11
Evan
To put a pillow or a couch cushion on top of the PlayStation so that no one would accidentally push the button. Like we we create a buffer, but then we didn't know that we were causing it to horrifically overheat.
00:27:52:11 - 00:27:53:10
Wade
Overheat? Yeah.
00:27:53:15 - 00:27:56:27
Evan
So yeah, horrific. It was terrible. All right. So let's go quickly over.
00:27:56:27 - 00:27:57:18
Wade
So we learned this.
00:27:57:18 - 00:28:07:26
Evan
Third crime scene and we'll get to our, segment one here before we move on in the future, to revisit some of our true crimes as theories present.
00:28:07:26 - 00:28:15:19
Wade
Themselves, the third crime scene is simply the way that they handled multiple worlds. And, Zach, who was there?
00:28:15:20 - 00:28:16:14
Wade
I.
00:28:16:17 - 00:28:46:14
Wade
Zach. Hello, man. Zach, I would say plays a cameo in Final Fantasy seven original. Okay. he is revealed toward the end of the game briefly. and then there are optional cutscenes that last about five or fewer minutes in the original that you can learn a little bit more about him, but he's really not a major character in the original game, even though his impact is massive now.
00:28:46:14 - 00:29:12:15
Wade
Since then, there have been the compilation of Final Fantasy seven, I guess pieces of media, including a prequel, which is Zach's story. So Zach has become much bigger of a deal in the years after 1997. That's important because as they're remaking this game, they are explaining Zach, much, much more than the original game ever did. And I think that's a good thing.
00:29:12:15 - 00:29:27:13
Wade
But the way that they are handling Zach and the multiple worlds that are happening, is a little confusing for a lot for a lot of people. and mainly because it's supposed to be confusing. It's act two, and all of that stuff will be revealed in act three.
00:29:27:17 - 00:29:31:00
Evan
Okay. So it's a it's a much more fresh crime scene we've stumbled on.
00:29:31:00 - 00:29:32:12
Wade
That one's a fresh version.
00:29:32:14 - 00:29:32:24
Evan
Okay.
00:29:33:00 - 00:29:50:08
Wade
But that one because there's not an analog really to the original. Yeah, but because they're explaining Zach using this particular narrative method, it does subvert some of the original stories. beats.
00:29:50:10 - 00:30:09:23
Evan
Well, why don't we, as we wrap up, tell people what they can expect from future installments? This is one that we're going to check in with periodically. We're not going to run it consecutively. Like true crime will pop up every now and again, once we have sufficient evidence and information to then bring to your attention.
00:30:09:25 - 00:30:33:15
Wade
When that's it. This this game, rebirth is going to last us probably three or more years before the final installment of the Re trilogy is released. And so we want to just create this as a segment, a bucket to bring in more stuff. I've got a lecture play series of, FF7 rebirth coming out this fall, as well as a bunch of video essays.
00:30:33:15 - 00:30:55:15
Wade
We're going to discuss those, but there are a ton of content creators, movie and film makers to, musicians, to, therapists, all kinds of people that really have some cool ways of thinking about Final Fantasy seven and especially these different crime scenes. So, as appropriate, we're going to bring in some of those voices. We're going to have some discussion.
00:30:55:15 - 00:31:17:23
Wade
We're trying to figure out what people think about this. How do they reckon with these crime scenes? How do they make sense of it? And, I think that's only going to enhance our appreciation for the game, maybe our delusions about the game, but also, it'll it's going to help us get to that part three, where hopefully a lot of our answers, questions will be answered.
00:31:17:25 - 00:31:35:00
Evan
So everybody, whether you've played the games or whether you haven't, you're along for the ride. And we're going to make sure that you can stay there with us. Questions that you have. Feel free to let us know you want to adlib us out in your, character voice. To end the segment, you I'll give you. I need to gather yourself.
00:31:35:02 - 00:31:37:02
Wade
Oh, my gosh, I need sunglasses.
00:31:37:02 - 00:31:39:10
Wade
I need to do the whole set up.
00:31:39:11 - 00:31:40:20
Evan
Put on the sunglasses.
00:31:40:21 - 00:31:41:19
Wade
There you go. I have.
00:31:41:19 - 00:31:48:18
Evan
Sunglasses. We'll say put on the sunglasses from our Summer games fest thing. Or the American flag. Heart shades dramatically with you.
00:31:48:19 - 00:31:59:16
Wade
Oh my gosh, do American flags heart shaped, shades. Those are. Those are exponential, right?
00:31:59:18 - 00:32:01:07
Wade
I don't even know what to say right now. I'm like.
00:32:01:07 - 00:32:09:21
Evan
Just do something and just say anything in in the right voice. And then I'll dramatically put on the glasses and we'll end it.
00:32:09:23 - 00:32:10:11
Wade
And that's what.
00:32:10:11 - 00:32:19:26
Wade
We call a wrap.
00:32:19:28 - 00:32:22:20
Wade
A little CSI there's I've I've ever read it.
00:32:22:20 - 00:32:27:06
Evan
It's perfect. All right, until next time, everyone stay frosty.
00:32:27:08 - 00:32:28:28
Wade
Let's mosey, let's mosey.
00:32:28:28 - 00:32:31:13
Evan
I can't see without my glasses.
00:32:31:16 - 00:32:33:06
Wade
Not the recording.
00:32:33:08 - 00:32:36:10
Evan
Oh, this is all staying in. I'm not kidding. This people have to know.
00:32:36:12 - 00:32:40:20
Wade
They have to know what happens if they have a right. You have a right to know.
00:32:40:26 - 00:32:41:02
Evan
I have.
00:32:41:02 - 00:32:42:19
Wade
A right to know.
00:32:42:22 - 00:32:45:25
Wade
That everyone.
00:32:45:25 - 00:33:05:13
Evan
Okay, everybody, it is time for our middle of the episode mini game Stretch Break, which is where we all take a stretch break. And you should too. So whatever you're doing, whether you're watching or listening, take a second. Be nice to your body. Get a little stretch in, stand up, take a little break, do whatever. But before we do, it's time for us to hit our intro music.
00:33:05:14 - 00:33:13:18
Evan
You ready? Wait. Now that bump don't fall. But bump, bump.
00:33:13:20 - 00:33:14:16
Wade
Bump, bump.
00:33:14:21 - 00:33:31:10
Evan
Perfect. All right, as you know, if you're watching, you can see it. We have the bingo wheel of vulnerability. If you can't. I'll give you a little audio preview. You hear that rattling around? Wait, do you have your cards? Tell everybody about the cards. Let's give a shout out to our people. Free for all.
00:33:31:12 - 00:33:45:18
Wade
The cards are from geek therapeutic, and they are geek therapy card decks for clients and therapists. 87 Practices to improve thoughts, build insight and take action in your life and de-stress. I use them in my class and I love to use them here.
00:33:45:24 - 00:34:00:19
Evan
All right everybody, what we're going to do is we have numbers one through 50 in the bingo wheel of Vulnerability. We will each guest a number and then we will spin the bingo. We'll encourage you to guess the number two one through 50, see if you could get it right. if you get it right, then there's no prize except for the, satisfaction of knowing that you did it.
00:34:00:21 - 00:34:10:00
Evan
which is what my parents said when I got good grades and they didn't give me any money. All right, here we go. Ready? Tell me when to stop with. Oh, get your number.
00:34:10:02 - 00:34:11:10
Wade
my number is seven.
00:34:11:12 - 00:34:34:14
Evan
I guess 26. And and it's dead. And it is 22. The number was 22, so I was. You were close. Was pretty close. So that was good. 22nd card from the top. And then let's have our mini game stretch break. Brought to you by the bingo wheel of vulnerability.
00:34:34:16 - 00:34:44:25
Wade
Well 1314 1516, 17, 18 1920, 21, 22. Got it baby. 0000.
00:34:45:03 - 00:34:47:05
Evan
Didn't pamper the,
00:34:47:07 - 00:34:53:11
Wade
That was good. That was good. It almost sounded like Game of Thrones for a second term. Dum da da dum dum da da da.
00:34:53:13 - 00:34:58:00
Evan
Bingo. We love vulnerability. There's too many levels.
00:34:58:02 - 00:34:59:27
Wade
Okay, here it is. Here it is. Are you ready for this question?
00:35:00:04 - 00:35:03:14
Evan
I'm ready. Milly's here. Hey, the.
00:35:03:14 - 00:35:31:11
Wade
Topic is anime. Great anime writers create characters based on mental health issues, making them more relatable to the viewer. These issues can range from high functioning autism to anxiety or depression. What characters do you relate to in an anime? Is there a reason you feel a connection to these characters? How does someone in your life remind you of an anime character?
00:35:31:14 - 00:35:37:07
Evan
So we're just going to expand this to movies and TV because you don't really watch much.
00:35:37:09 - 00:35:42:29
Wade
Yeah, I was going to go with JRPGs for me because that's the closest thing to anime for me, unless you include some fancy 15 anime.
00:35:43:05 - 00:35:44:28
Evan
What stories? Yeah. Zero.
00:35:45:00 - 00:35:52:15
Wade
Yeah. So how would you answer that? Is there a anime or story character that you relate to, and is there a reason?
00:35:52:23 - 00:36:23:26
Evan
Yeah, I think I'm going more like archetype, like, okay, that's what kind of makes me think of it because like with specific characters, you know, there's a couple, but there's, I think situations or types of characters that are always more intriguing to me. I am always attracted to the character who doesn't have, like, a lot of strong, overt strengths or power, say, but has to use like, cunning or like charisma to, like, work through like challenges and situations.
00:36:23:29 - 00:37:05:12
Evan
and so the thing that I would say that's like the concept within that, that I connect with is the not having a straightforward way to get to where you want to go, you know, the challenges and obstacles that there. So I think it's a lot of like perseverance. and I think that's the thing that like when I experience setbacks or doubts, like characters that are able to like identify and overcome those, especially through like gaining something that they didn't have before, like taking on or learning something new.
00:37:05:14 - 00:37:14:05
Evan
those kinds of characters I gravitate towards, and I think they're very interesting to me. Bonus points if they use humor to deflect.
00:37:14:07 - 00:37:23:01
Wade
Nice. We love that. A good coping mechanism is it? It's great. Yeah it is until it doesn't work.
00:37:23:03 - 00:37:24:12
Evan
So far so good.
00:37:24:14 - 00:37:25:19
Wade
So far so good.
00:37:25:21 - 00:37:26:14
Evan
Yeah.
00:37:26:16 - 00:37:58:13
Wade
I know for me, I really like the loner hero. and so for, for me, you know, I think in terms of Final Fantasy's, the most anime thing that I think that I do, because, I mean, you know, as you said, I'm not a big anime fan, but I'm a huge Final Fantasy fan. And so but for me, it is that loner hero that feels like they can do it alone and then is surprised by, their need for, friendship or companionship and all of that kind of stuff.
00:37:58:15 - 00:38:17:17
Wade
so for that, you know, I, I lean into, characters like Cloud and Squall from Final Fantasy eight. and then Noctis, of course, from Final Fantasy 15, who really comes to learn, to love and depend on his his friends. And so that's an archetype that I will read up all day long. Like that's so good.
00:38:17:23 - 00:38:37:11
Evan
That's thanks for sharing this. Interviewer. what is that character or kind of character type that comes to mind for you, that you connect with or that you kind of learn from? Think about the things that we play and consume and read, and let's, let's kind of think a little bit deeper about how it can help us have the life that we want here.
00:38:37:11 - 00:38:53:03
Evan
So, thanks for sharing. Bingo wheel vulnerability. Thanks for facilitating group therapy cards. Thanks for the great questions. And I'm going to get one last stretch in. And then we'll get our next segment. I like the mini game stretch break.
00:38:53:06 - 00:38:54:24
Wade
I like the stretch break too.
00:38:54:24 - 00:38:57:12
Evan
I needed it I mean everybody needs it.
00:38:57:14 - 00:38:58:16
Wade
I mean, everyone needs it.
00:38:58:19 - 00:39:09:08
Evan
Yeah. good mini game. Stretch break. I've searched. Yeah. In my like a life. I'm like, I need a little mini game. Stretch break. Yeah, I'm sitting at the desk too long, and then, you know, here we are.
00:39:09:09 - 00:39:24:02
Wade
So, you know, last week they said on, NPR or something like that that, everybody needs to have floor time, like 20 minutes of floor time. So maybe we can do a mini game floor time sometime.
00:39:24:04 - 00:39:33:26
Evan
My sister in law, their family, they have turtle time where they turtle time is, just time for you to, like, go into your shell a little bit, or.
00:39:33:27 - 00:39:35:13
Wade
I've loved calling it that.
00:39:35:13 - 00:39:42:04
Evan
Turtle. Time is such. It's so cute. Anyways, everybody cute. We'll see you on the next segment. Thanks.
00:39:42:04 - 00:40:04:25
Speaker 1
Okay, everyone, it's time to jump in to part three, the finale of our Character Creator series. If you missed parts one and two, don't worry, we'll catch you up because we learned on part two all about my long lost daddy character, Ryder. We learned why you can't really just give a kid an unplugged controller and expect them to be entertained.
00:40:04:27 - 00:40:14:25
Speaker 1
And we talked about games from our childhood that we missed, but maybe they should stay there. So check out the previous segments if you want, but you're all caught up now, so let's jump into part three.
00:40:14:26 - 00:40:43:24
Evan
Okay, so I want you to think about this. There seems to be this distinction between a character that we make and like a game that we play, that single player and the avatar or character that we create when we know it's going to be a social game. You talk about like World of Warcraft or any of these movies that have these advanced character creators, and there is this bridge moment where people like to share the characters that they make in their solo game, right?
00:40:43:24 - 00:41:08:09
Evan
Like, you know, like, hey, look at this character that I made. There's this picture. Everybody show your characters. Sure. But those people can't interact with that character in, like, a meaningful way in the in the game. So have you found there to be some sort of distinction, or do you think something happens that's different? When we make a character that we know someone is going to be interacting with, that we're parading around versus something that's just kind of in our internal world of play here.
00:41:08:11 - 00:41:24:15
Wade
Yeah, I think so. And I can relate it to my own experience, I guess, in, in creating those two things. Right. Okay. This is super petty and superficial, but I want my character to look cool. Like that's it.
00:41:24:18 - 00:41:28:01
Evan
I don't think this is a safe place. I love that.
00:41:28:03 - 00:41:37:19
Wade
I don't really care. you know, functionally, all that kind of stuff, like an Elden Ring. I don't wear helmets because I like my hair.
00:41:37:21 - 00:41:38:09
Evan
Oh, yeah.
00:41:38:10 - 00:41:54:13
Wade
Okay, cool. You know, that's the world that I'm in. And then people will be like, oh, you use a weapon and Elden Ring get good. It's like, no, I like the sword. It looks awesome. And it just so happens to have a wave beam behind it. what is it? The dark moon greatsword. That's what I love.
00:41:54:15 - 00:41:55:04
Evan
I haven't played.
00:41:55:04 - 00:41:57:02
Wade
It. Oh my gosh. Stellar game.
00:41:57:02 - 00:41:58:25
Evan
But everybody loves it.
00:41:58:28 - 00:42:28:14
Wade
Yeah. Getting really excited for the DLC, but for me, it's all about does this look cool? If it doesn't look cool and it is in my eyes, then I will not engage with it right? that is increased a little bit more. when I'm thinking about taking a character online. So for example, in World of Warcraft, I didn't find any of the particular characters to look cool.
00:42:28:17 - 00:42:38:24
Wade
and so for me, it was like, okay, like, I don't really feel like this best conveys me. And then there was the question of like, but people are going to associate this.
00:42:38:26 - 00:42:40:01
Evan
With, oh, there it is.
00:42:40:05 - 00:42:56:24
Wade
You know. Yeah. And they're like, do I want to be conveyed as like a stuffy paladin with long hair and a beard and a goatee? And I can't grow it, at least at that point in my life. It's like I said to me, I don't want to be associated with that, but I'm also not a troll, and I'm not a goblin.
00:42:56:26 - 00:43:11:15
Wade
I'm not like, you know, weird beast, man. So, like, where am I in this? I just had to bite the bullet. And ultimately I went, Paladin, male beard long. Sure. I look like bulking Jesus with a sword.
00:43:11:17 - 00:43:20:01
Evan
I want to. If I could just integrate if you asked a question in there and I don't know if it was.
00:43:20:01 - 00:43:20:20
Wade
Yeah.
00:43:20:23 - 00:43:24:00
Evan
It doesn't matter where where you ask. You ask the question, where am I in this?
00:43:24:07 - 00:43:25:05
Wade
Yeah.
00:43:25:08 - 00:43:32:27
Evan
Like that was the question that you that you saw. You saw a list of options. And the question that you asked yourself was, where am I in this?
00:43:32:29 - 00:43:57:24
Wade
That's a fool, man. I don't think that everybody asks that question. So, okay. For instance, when I create something, that I'm going to play as an avatar, typically it is going to emulate a part of my own personal reality that I don't want to deep dive into this and make any caricature statements about myself or about others.
00:43:57:26 - 00:44:25:18
Wade
Sure. But it does strike me that that by and large, like, I'm pretty okay with myself, right? I don't try to escape out of myself in a lot of venues. And so like, I can see that for some people, it might be limiting for them to try to convey themselves in a video game. so for, for example, this is just a very, very clear way for me.
00:44:25:20 - 00:44:48:14
Wade
I typically if having having the choice, I'm going to choose like a male character. I'm going to choose an esthetic that looks pretty similar to me and all of that kind of stuff. Does that have to do with a level of confidence, self esteem? probably a conversation of privilege in a lot of ways. It probably does end.
00:44:48:14 - 00:45:01:27
Wade
If I had a different experience of that, am I going to want to play something else? That probably is what I would call overreaching into the cycle, psychology of all this. But I do think that may play a factor in that.
00:45:02:01 - 00:45:19:27
Evan
But guessing. Right. It's a it's a hypothesis for yourself. And this is a framework for you like yourself. You're not creating a like a ruleset that we're trying to categorize everyone into. I think the ability for you to just talk about what your experiences and examine your own motivations.
00:45:20:00 - 00:45:29:09
Wade
Here's a here's a great example of that. In early days of Final Fantasy 14, I had multiple characters, okay. And so like I had my basic character that was me. But I.
00:45:29:09 - 00:45:30:26
Evan
Also did they know about each other.
00:45:30:26 - 00:45:33:27
Wade
Or. Well, they could never log in at the same time because it's.
00:45:33:27 - 00:45:35:25
Evan
One account that's convenient for you.
00:45:35:26 - 00:45:51:12
Wade
They're convenient. Yeah. Multiverse way over here. But I remember I created, you know, my standard character. That was me, essentially my paladin from World of Warcraft. But then I created a female monk named Buffy Summers from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
00:45:51:15 - 00:45:52:23
Evan
Okay. All right.
00:45:52:25 - 00:46:33:08
Wade
Okay. Can I can I say this, like, the interactions that I had with other player characters was different as Buffy than they were as CS or who is my my main avatar character? Of course. and I don't know if that was just in my mind or the perception I did get more characters coming up. player controlled characters coming up and saying things that were a little bit more coded as far as flirtatious as far as like, sure, I don't want to say Loki or on Loki, but it did kind of have that sort of thing.
00:46:33:08 - 00:46:44:20
Wade
And I didn't get that with Cecil. And so, like, for me, I was like, this does not feel like me.
00:46:44:23 - 00:46:45:13
Evan
Well, I think.
00:46:45:13 - 00:46:46:02
Wade
There's, you know.
00:46:46:02 - 00:47:12:26
Evan
This is a probably a good opportunity and kind of the nature and philosophy of the way we approach things is we see an observation. Right? it makes us curious about something. And then we find others who have researched or experienced or understand those things in a different way. So I think that's one that I would say let's absolutely, mark that as I think we probably need to get somebody else's perspective.
00:47:12:26 - 00:47:30:22
Evan
Oh, I experience on some of that. So I think that's one that I would say we, you know, we're like, oh, that felt different, right. I'm not an expert in online interactions based on like perceptions of gender. Right. But there probably is somebody out there who is. And you know, we have people in our lives that I would say one thing, have different experiences.
00:47:30:23 - 00:47:55:29
Wade
One thing that really strikes me about that is that this could be an interesting tool. I don't know if it's healthy or not. but it could be an interesting tool for taking on the perspective of of the other. Right? Like that small demo experience as Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Final Fantasy 14. It put me in someone else's shoes, right?
00:47:56:07 - 00:48:29:06
Wade
It makes me rethink interactions, and I wonder what that could mean for things like, race, gender or, you know, nationality even. I mean, there's, there's different. I never played as a horde character in World of Warcraft because in my perspective, they were more the bad guys, and I didn't know it'd be bad. Right? So, like, in in Knights of the Old Republic, I would never play as a Sith because I associated them with bad or evil.
00:48:29:08 - 00:48:31:01
Evan
and so and you're and you're controlling the.
00:48:31:01 - 00:48:34:10
Wade
Character and I could chew on the character and I'm like, I'm not that right.
00:48:34:14 - 00:48:45:19
Evan
So what do you do in a game when you. Because you play a lot of tight storage of games, what do you do when the game makes you do something that you don't want to do or the character? But I do because I think.
00:48:45:19 - 00:49:06:23
Wade
Because it's it's like that is a betrayal. That's an intentional betrayal of my own convictions, conscience and emotion. Sure. And it's making me feel that, well, I mean, classic example of this would be in, the Call of Duty classic chapter. No Russian. Right. Where? Okay. Hyper controversial, you know about this one, right?
00:49:06:27 - 00:49:07:11
Evan
Keep going.
00:49:07:14 - 00:49:36:18
Wade
Okay, so it's the hyper controversial chapter where you are a spy with a group of Russians. That is, shooting up an airport, basically, and you are having to shoot civilians and just perhaps others that are that, you know, that that's you have to do it to not blow your cover. It is a vile and offensive feeling that you feel.
00:49:36:21 - 00:50:01:07
Wade
But it it is perspective taking. And for that purpose I was like, oh gosh, they're nailing how bad this feels. and I, I don't know, there's a moral dilemma with that, an ethical dilemma with that. But I totally I think that there's a powerful statement about agency and emotion that is conveyed uniquely through games. like if you're always.
00:50:01:10 - 00:50:16:11
Evan
If you read about that happening in a book. Right. Because if yeah, books are exercises in empathy and submission to someone else's perspective where you have to just fully read whatever they write and say, and you can choose not to read it, but it doesn't mean that the words don't exist on the page. Like they're they're out there.
00:50:16:11 - 00:50:31:26
Evan
They still exist to you. You're actively choosing to engage with it. And games take it as a not even a step further, a step differently, maybe. And where you actually have to make inputs, not just continue reading on a page, but you have to give inputs. If you.
00:50:31:26 - 00:50:35:00
Wade
Don't press R2 to pull the trigger.
00:50:35:02 - 00:50:36:11
Evan
You don't move on the.
00:50:36:11 - 00:51:00:15
Wade
Mission like they find you out. Right? And that's what was so like visceral, right, to press the actual trigger button. And it's like, oh gosh, I'm doing this. It's a wild form of perspective taking, controversial, but I would dare say like, a, a genius implementation of a very negative feeling.
00:51:00:17 - 00:51:31:09
Evan
Yeah. Well, I think that leads well into another point that we wanted to get to, which is, what do you do when you encounter these moments in spaces of reflection in games and like, because sometimes games move really, really quickly and like, you want to be on to the next thing, you can pause it. but how do you take these moments of clarity and use them to actually reflect, like why does it and what point does it never make a difference in your life?
00:51:31:11 - 00:51:48:13
Evan
Can you think of a time where like just like that, where you were like, oh, this, this, I, this is not the same thing. This is not just me playing a video game like this is making me think about something in my life or a situation that I'm dealing with. and how do you use video games as a tool to do that?
00:51:48:14 - 00:51:52:29
Evan
It's obviously a triple barrel question. That's a compound question to.
00:51:52:29 - 00:51:53:27
Wade
Veteran as far.
00:51:53:27 - 00:51:58:06
Evan
As discussion goes, where do you land on that and what is your experience been?
00:51:58:09 - 00:52:24:25
Wade
Yeah, I think the one thing that happens is that most people don't intentionally process what they're experienced in the content they're consuming, and good content has that baked into it. Right. I think of some games that after a high moment, you're immediately going to have a low kind of light moment that allows you some space to process, especially in like a long form RPG or something like that.
00:52:24:25 - 00:52:33:06
Wade
You just have to have a pacing shift in order to kind of settle and allow you to contemplate it and think about that. Now, when it comes to real life.
00:52:33:08 - 00:52:36:24
Evan
I just say that's like a forced reflection. It almost in the pacing.
00:52:36:24 - 00:53:12:08
Wade
Yeah, I think so. I, I'm thinking very recently, in Final Fantasy seven rebirth, there is a really risky thing that they do about halfway through the game where some major things have happened. And, you're at the beach, okay? And. It is literally just like a, a sunset scene on the beach where you can talk to the other characters, listen to a very vibey kind of music, and it's a time of contemplation where each of the characters is contemplating what's just happened.
00:53:12:11 - 00:53:30:14
Wade
But you can linger there as long as you want. What I did, I went and tried to take a bunch of sunset photos, and I, as I'm thinking about the rest of the game, right? If anybody's ever watched, I, I take a lot of photos. but I'm also like, I'm there's a sand castle that's been built over there.
00:53:30:14 - 00:53:44:18
Wade
So I tried to get some good pictures with the sand castle. All of this was very processing for me over the events of the game that are happening. And what's so a good game is going to do that. But.
00:53:44:20 - 00:54:13:22
Wade
I think that I think that good games also invite real world reflection ways that I do that as I usually are. I'm going to go to my game stop is serendipitously right next to a Barnes and Noble, and I seldom go to one without the other. Okay, so like I bought, I the classic example, I bought Ghost of Tsushima and went over to Barnes and Noble and bought three books on Japanese folklore, myths, and samurai.
00:54:13:29 - 00:54:24:02
Wade
Right. Because I wanted to have some books to be a reading companion, but also a place for contemplation, about the game that I was playing. Now, that's not.
00:54:24:03 - 00:54:26:25
Evan
Talking about a game that makes reflection.
00:54:26:29 - 00:54:28:00
Wade
Right.
00:54:28:02 - 00:54:29:21
Evan
A natural part of it.
00:54:29:21 - 00:54:55:23
Wade
Absolutely. I mean, and so you can take your character in there to Jin, that's his name, right? Jin. To go and meditate. But what about your own personal meditation? And like, that's something that I incorporated during my playthrough of that game because so many things were happening and, and so, you know, I think that, things like reading, I think conversations like this, like, hey, have you gotten to this part in the game?
00:54:55:23 - 00:55:15:03
Wade
That's one of my favorite things to do, talk to somebody about, about their experience of it. What do you think's happening there? Like it's amazing. Some of the conversations that will begin to come out during a shared experience of a game. and then finally, for me, like, I have a tendency to write down things like I'm a journal and stuff.
00:55:15:03 - 00:55:44:27
Wade
So like, my journal is weird in that respect because it's like I played this the other day and it really got me thinking about this. I finished some of SC seven rebirth and ended up reading T.S. Eliot. I told you about this the other day. I think, offline, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm reading this quartet from T.S. Eliot, and it's just so chapter 14 and Final Fantasy seven rebirth, and you're like, they're they're,
00:55:44:29 - 00:55:48:04
Evan
It's you are. You're like the crime scene with the.
00:55:48:05 - 00:55:50:17
Wade
Yeah. That's me. Crime scene is like.
00:55:50:19 - 00:56:14:26
Evan
Yeah, but I think it's I think it's great the connections that are made there because there's the like internal and external processing. So, people, everybody does both. Right? Some people process a lot more internally. And inside that there's journals and some people are more external processors. Right. I'm way more of an external processor and I like resent internal processing, but I have to have it right.
00:56:14:26 - 00:56:23:01
Evan
It's an important part. And writing things down for an external processor is actually really good because I'm externalizing my thoughts to myself.
00:56:23:02 - 00:56:24:05
Wade
Yeah.
00:56:24:07 - 00:56:44:23
Evan
And one of the things that I liked about, what you mentioned is that the reflection point that it uses is a couple different systems because you can, like, choose what you want to reflect on in certain moments that there's hot springs or whatever they were called. and then you also compose those haikus.
00:56:44:24 - 00:56:46:00
Wade
Oh right. Oh my gosh.
00:56:46:00 - 00:56:55:06
Evan
And so it, you choose basically, it asks you to reflect on a certain part of the story, and then you choose how you experienced it. Now you can buzz right through it.
00:56:55:07 - 00:56:58:29
Wade
Oh concept by the way, just like include that in game. Oh my. Yeah.
00:56:58:29 - 00:57:12:29
Evan
If you've never played it, it puts up this giant landscape and you have to look at different parts of the landscape while it gives you like kind of a general topic to reflect on. And you choose the different phrasings. And I think there's.
00:57:13:02 - 00:57:13:12
Wade
Three.
00:57:13:14 - 00:57:14:28
Evan
Or potentially.
00:57:15:00 - 00:57:16:09
Wade
Yeah, something like that.
00:57:16:09 - 00:57:34:16
Evan
I it was really, really crazy at between that and then at, at the waypoint system, being that the wind just gently blows in the direction of what your objective and supposed to do is that it's like this constant organic pull. that was that was a really that was a really fun game.
00:57:34:16 - 00:58:07:12
Wade
What a great example, though, of, of I mean, that game has very limited character creation and yet it allows you to create your experience through things like processing and haiku writing and just having these quieter moments for active contemplation over what's happening in that game. And it becomes deeply personal. I mean, a haiku, sure, even though it is pre generated right by the game's developers, you have some agency and saying, yeah, this is how it feels to me, right?
00:58:07:12 - 00:58:07:18
Wade
Yeah.
00:58:07:18 - 00:58:25:21
Evan
It's categorical. And in that game specifically, your actions typically determine the story and the way that people react to you being if you play in a more sneaky style or if you play in a more honorable, challenging way, the characters will regard you differently. So yeah. yeah, that one, that one really kind of sticks out to me.
00:58:25:23 - 00:58:54:05
Evan
But it is interesting when we encounter these moments that because I think the challenges that we find in life or the things that are going on in our mind, we're often looking for outlets to be able to understand them. We're searching for meaning in the things that we do, and I think that games and play can definitely be a distraction and an outlet, and can definitely be escape, but I think they can be escape from environment.
00:58:54:06 - 00:58:54:27
Wade
Yeah.
00:58:55:00 - 00:59:00:29
Evan
To then gain clarity on some of the challenges and things that we're working through.
00:59:01:02 - 00:59:26:27
Wade
Right. And I think that that's the key thing. Anything can be useful if brought into the right light, you know. So a book, certainly, movie, a sporting event, all that kind of stuff. But I do think that all of it takes some deep processing video games, I think, uniquely allow for a deeper personalization just because the agency involved.
00:59:26:29 - 00:59:46:23
Wade
And so why wouldn't we think more deeply about these sort of things that make us feel so deeply? And that's that's really kind of the catalyst for everything that I try to do. You know, we feel so deeply through games. Let's have a deeper level of processing and conversation about them.
00:59:46:25 - 01:00:12:09
Evan
But I think the pacing and the play of it is good too, because everything but this may come as a shock. everything is not all serious all the time, right? Right. But there are these moments where we get clarity that I think it's important for us to engage, because we're you you always talk about we're we want to use games and play to springboard ourselves into the life that we want.
01:00:12:10 - 01:00:35:21
Evan
Right? So this idea that you could take something that you enjoy doing anyways and that you're going to do and not give all of it to this hyper really overly serious thing, but allow it and the pacing within it because you're going to give time to it, let it contribute to your growth and experience and development in the way that you want.
01:00:35:22 - 01:01:03:23
Wade
Thank you and the whole mantra is like, take the best and forget the rest, right? So when it comes to like ghost, for example, if you like that contemplation sort of style incorporated into your life, that could be the catalyst for you having a new meditative practice, a process practice, something of sitting out in nature. You don't have to be religious or spiritual to do that kind of thing if it works for you in-game.
01:01:03:23 - 01:01:24:16
Wade
Here's the cool thing it'll likely work for you in real life, too. You know, you talk to people about, you know, we get addicted to games, because of the grand, sweeping stories that we are in. Well, it's because there's a sense of purpose and a sense of mission. Well, how are we incorporating those senses of purposes and missions into our everyday life?
01:01:24:16 - 01:01:48:20
Wade
There's not always a princess to be saved, but there may be a goal to attain. And I think that that is where we ask about meaning and value, that these archetypal stories that we're playing in modern day might have something to say about our deeper, more robust life value that we're offering ourselves.
01:01:48:23 - 01:02:11:21
Evan
I think that sums it up. I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed this segment on character creators, and I think I probably have more curiosities than I expected and coming into it, but I there's definitely some things that I want to explore. Thanks for sharing. kind of your experience and some of the research enjoyed getting to reflect a little bit on my own guys.
01:02:11:21 - 01:02:12:12
Evan
I'm sure it.
01:02:12:17 - 01:02:12:26
Wade
Was a.
01:02:12:26 - 01:02:18:01
Evan
Blast, but also so enjoyed it. And, we'll see you on the next one. Yeah. Thanks, everybody for listening.
01:02:18:05 - 01:02:18:27
Wade
Sounds good.
01:02:18:27 - 01:02:29:22
Evan
Hello everyone! It is now nearing the end of our program, which means that we are in our games before games. I feel like I really have to enunciate.
01:02:29:22 - 01:02:33:14
Wade
Whenever we do, it's important to pronounce it specifically.
01:02:33:14 - 01:03:08:06
Evan
As in gaining things increasing before games, video games, play, board games, whatever. so gains before games. This is the part of the show where we have four domains of life, and every episode we move between the four of them. There's physical, emotional, spiritual, and social. This is the week for spiritual. So based on what we talked about in our episode and based on what you've been playing and thinking about, what is it that has kind of come to mind for the domain of your like, spiritual internal world?
01:03:08:06 - 01:03:32:16
Evan
I get to start, I ask the question to you, listener, but I'll ask a question myself. I have been thinking about when we make decisions and like, commit to things in life and we go down a path, but then it doesn't quite turn out the way that we want or we've invested in certain aspects of ourself, or the idea of what something could be.
01:03:32:16 - 01:03:52:00
Evan
And we have to change our mind. this became apparent to me when I was playing Baldur's Gate three, and there was a character that had a certain class that didn't really suit what we needed them to do anymore in the party, but I felt like compelled because like, well, I don't, and I've already gone so far down this path.
01:03:52:00 - 01:04:09:06
Evan
Like what would it look like in the game? It's called, like respecting. Or, you know, you can change your class and your stats and that kind of stuff. but then it made me think about how I don't like to do that in life either. I'm like, well, I've already committed to this, or I feel like this is a path, or I thought this is where it would go.
01:04:09:11 - 01:04:30:19
Evan
So when I have different like skill sets or things that I've used in my life that aren't really serving me anymore, and like, maybe I need to not give like my energy to them as much, or I really need to, really say thank you for what you helped me to accomplish in this time. But now I need to be a different person to like myself.
01:04:30:19 - 01:04:51:07
Evan
And I think it's really more in, like, little ways than it is this grand proclamation for me, where I just have to say, this isn't for me anymore. Like, I need to let this go and I need to open a new chapter for, you know, the things that I'm going to be interested in. And it's really those micro things that I think are interesting that I feel like that came off a little more ambiguous and intended.
01:04:51:07 - 01:04:53:07
Evan
But no, I.
01:04:53:07 - 01:05:30:11
Wade
Think that that's a great way of thinking about, spiritual recentering and stuff. I almost like the idea of respecting as a spiritual practice, because there are times in our lives when, when we have to take stock of, of where we are and how do we get to that thing. so, I mean, I'm playing Baldur's Gate three, currently for the first time, you know, and there was a point when I needed to respect because I had put all of my points in all of the wrong places, like a TLC song or something like that sort of feels like I just quoted.
01:05:30:13 - 01:05:59:17
Wade
But yeah, one of the things in my playthrough that I've determined, with my my, player two is we're never going to reroll. And so there are some things that we could solve by respecting, but then there are other things that we simply cannot. And so some problems can be resolved by like deep diving into yourself and like saying, okay, I'm keeping this, I'm dropping this thing and just kind of reorienting yourself.
01:05:59:22 - 01:06:22:21
Wade
But then there are other things in our history, in our past that we simply cannot get away from. For example, in boulders. Gate three I killed all of the druids in the tea flings and anything that was green. And so I can't undo those choices, but I can respec it. Live in light of it. I share all that a little bit tongue in cheek, but in my own real life, and maybe this is a sign of of age.
01:06:22:21 - 01:06:40:17
Wade
When I hit around 35 years old, I came to this point when I was like, have I made the right choices in life? have I done what I needed to to really get the most out of life? And I was coming up with the answer of no, I feel like I've missed out, or I took the wrong path and all this kind of stuff.
01:06:40:19 - 01:07:00:23
Wade
And so that's when you began to see a little bit of a shift in some of the things that I did. you know, as, a few years after that, I started streaming for the first time. I became an educator during this time, and I just started to change some things, but there was still 35 plus years of history that I couldn't undo.
01:07:00:23 - 01:07:24:17
Wade
And so here's all of this to say. This goes into the spiritual mantra that I currently have, okay? And it simply goes like this. And you've probably heard this before, it's called the Serenity Prayer. You don't have to be hyper, spiritual or religious to to think this and all this kind of stuff, but it simply goes like this.
01:07:24:20 - 01:07:53:02
Wade
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. I love that prayer, that mantra, that statement. This is one of those great things that I try to do occasionally in the morning before I start my day. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
01:07:53:02 - 01:08:18:03
Wade
And I think that that is where I'd like to lean in this week for our gains before games. as an encouragement, if you are looking at a respecting in life, just understand this you can't change everything but the things you can. Do it with courage, the things you can't accept them. And try hard to know the difference between those things.
01:08:18:05 - 01:08:41:05
Evan
Yeah, I think for me, the intentionality of actually thinking about what are the things that I do, what do I give my energy to? What is what has my attention right now? and how is that fitting? Because I think I just inherit, you know, things for that. It's like Katamari where it just like that giant ball that rolls around, it picks up everything around it, like, that's that's how I get it, you know?
01:08:41:06 - 01:08:54:26
Evan
That's right. Sometimes it's it's, I think using this conversation to reflect. I think those are the things I'm going to be evaluating and reflecting on. What, what what have I picked up along the way that maybe I need to kind of shed or set down a little bit?
01:08:54:29 - 01:09:23:29
Wade
Yeah, that's good in a lot of people wouldn't think of that as a spiritual practice, but it really is, I think, because, you know, we we gain this deep attachment to things in our lives, not just objects, but like personas that we've picked up. And that spiritual component does help us to decipher, you know, what's core to me and what is is how do I make meaning of my world and what is no longer useful for making meaning?
01:09:24:02 - 01:09:44:26
Evan
Yeah, I think I was thinking about that very deeply when I was doing, a lot of yard work and shaping bushes and pruning and things like that, because I feel bad taking off something. I don't want to harm it, but sometimes a good thing can grow in the wrong direction. Yeah. And it just has to be moved and shifted.
01:09:44:26 - 01:10:01:14
Evan
And just because I'm afraid of change doesn't mean that I shouldn't take the action that I need to make things go in the direction they need to. Something could have been good at one time, and it no longer serves me. so I need to let it go so that I can have the energy to grow in the right direction, because that's what it that's what it does when you change.
01:10:01:17 - 01:10:06:24
Evan
It's a prune, a plant. You're telling it not this way. Go this way.
01:10:06:26 - 01:10:34:21
Wade
Was part of development and growth and maturity and all that kind of stuff. Okay. So real talk last night ever I saw Inside Out for the first time. The first one. Okay. The first, the first one, I'm seeing the second one this weekend. So I needed to see the first one for the first time. Last night. And, let me let me tell you the, the reprocessing of my childhood and my first, several decades, a few decades of life really came to the forefront at that point.
01:10:34:24 - 01:10:59:16
Wade
But it's just what you're saying, you know, when we are kids and when we're teenagers and when we're in our early 20s, we have these, like playgrounds or these islands that we set up that we can enjoy. But eventually they they it's not that they outlive their usefulness, it's just that we don't frequent them quite as much, and they need to fall away in order to build up some new things.
01:10:59:16 - 01:11:21:22
Wade
And that, to me, is part of this spiritual component. religion helps us do that. Meaning making helps us do that. And in some ways it's it's all about what is really helping me find integrity, integration with the world around me and what is, is no longer doing that.
01:11:21:24 - 01:11:44:00
Evan
so for you, listener, viewer, we hope that this gets you thinking about what are those things in life that you, have carried into this moment that maybe have served you well or not served you well? And what would it look like to give yourself the freedom and the ability to think about respecting a little bit, and even just some little way?
01:11:44:01 - 01:11:56:00
Evan
It's not necessarily you have to upend everything about your life, but what are those little decisions that we can make and try out to see what might suit us better? Because maybe we've been holding on to stuff a little too hard that we don't need to be holding on to anymore.
01:11:56:07 - 01:12:04:07
Wade
Yeah, I love that idea of a spiritual respect. I've never, like, thought of that particular terminology, but that's a really cool thing.
01:12:04:09 - 01:12:10:22
Evan
Yeah, well enjoyed it. I hope everyone has had some nice gains before you play your games.
01:12:11:14 - 01:12:15:21
Evan
We'll see you on the next one.
01:12:17:11 - 01:12:40:25
Speaker 1
Thanks everyone for watching. Our show is written and edited by us. Our music comes from sing for the laughter. Check out their stuff on YouTube. Big thanks for letting us use the music. And our graphics are done by the Nick Smith. So thanks to Nick. Hope that everybody has a fantastic week and we will see you next episode.
