How to Take a Vacation Through Video Games | PNWS Ep. 5
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:06:18
Evan
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to this weekly show. I'm not ProfNoctis, but this is. Tell them what we got this week.
00:00:06:21 - 00:00:11:10
Wade
This week we are talking about video game vacations. And can a game be too difficult?
00:00:14:28 - 00:00:18:04
Unknown
You.
00:00:18:25 - 00:00:43:14
Evan
Wait. I have a question. As we get into our new segment and especially since you had a really good time very late last night playing Lies of Pee, your Pinocchio action adventure game, which been playing and reading the original story of Pinocchio on. I hear they're making an audiobook of your voice reading it. That's pretty cool.
00:00:43:17 - 00:00:45:05
Wade
Yeah, they're, there's some.
00:00:45:11 - 00:00:50:16
Wade
People in the community that are stitching together all of the audio recordings.
00:00:50:18 - 00:00:51:28
Wade
Big read, increasing level of.
00:00:51:28 - 00:00:53:07
Wade
Frustration in my voice as.
00:00:53:07 - 00:00:53:15
Wade
I get.
00:00:53:15 - 00:00:54:19
Wade
Toward the end of the.
00:00:54:19 - 00:00:54:29
Wade
Book.
00:00:55:06 - 00:01:05:03
Evan
Yeah, we're getting we're getting to the nature of my question then. So based on what you experienced last night, can a game be too difficult?
00:01:05:05 - 00:01:06:02
Wade
All right. For those that.
00:01:06:06 - 00:01:06:17
Wade
Were.
00:01:06:17 - 00:01:07:03
Wade
Not.
00:01:07:04 - 00:01:08:21
Wade
Watching the stream last night.
00:01:08:21 - 00:01:11:13
Wade
I died 50 times.
00:01:11:15 - 00:01:13:22
Wade
Game boss. Same boss. I did not be the.
00:01:13:22 - 00:01:14:20
Wade
Boss last night.
00:01:14:20 - 00:01:16:26
Wade
I thought this was going to be the finale.
00:01:16:26 - 00:01:17:12
Wade
Of lies.
00:01:17:12 - 00:01:18:11
Wade
Of P, but maybe it.
00:01:18:11 - 00:01:26:24
Wade
Was the final lie. Who's to say it is horrible? Horrible? I respect I reworked several.
00:01:26:24 - 00:01:31:28
Wade
Times, And I just died and I didn't, I died and died and died and and now here's.
00:01:31:28 - 00:01:33:03
Wade
Here's here's.
00:01:33:05 - 00:01:38:10
Wade
The question. Can a game be too hard? And I just, first of all, want to say I'm offended that you.
00:01:38:10 - 00:01:39:10
Wade
Asked me that because.
00:01:39:10 - 00:01:40:10
Wade
The game is not too.
00:01:40:10 - 00:01:40:24
Wade
Hard.
00:01:40:28 - 00:01:41:24
Wade
For me. I can.
00:01:41:24 - 00:01:49:06
Wade
Do this. I can beat this game. You I will beat this game. I know, and it will probably be today. Tonight. Who knows?
00:01:49:08 - 00:01:49:24
Wade
Stay tuned.
00:01:50:00 - 00:01:55:04
Evan
Yeah. Stay tuned. this will be this episode will be airing long after you have.
00:01:55:04 - 00:01:58:15
Wade
It'll be airing. Laughter after it. Laughter. Oh, my gosh.
00:01:58:22 - 00:02:00:08
Wade
It will be airing after.
00:02:00:08 - 00:02:01:21
Wade
But you can go back and relive it.
00:02:01:21 - 00:02:02:19
Wade
On the VOD. What are we.
00:02:02:19 - 00:02:03:02
Wade
Anyway?
00:02:03:02 - 00:02:08:03
Evan
What are we going to do? If you haven't beaten the lies of P before this episode airs?
00:02:08:05 - 00:02:11:23
Wade
I don't know. you're going to have to probably knock me out because I'll be drowning.
00:02:11:25 - 00:02:13:17
Evan
And good callback.
00:02:13:17 - 00:02:16:18
Evan
That's a great callback to another segment. Oh, don't.
00:02:16:19 - 00:02:22:14
Evan
That question can a game too difficult? This was in part spawned by the new Elden Ring.
00:02:22:20 - 00:02:23:13
Wade
Yeah.
00:02:23:15 - 00:02:24:28
Wade
Everybody's losing their mind.
00:02:24:29 - 00:02:40:01
Evan
Much discussion about this game. And if it's too difficult and what that looks like. So we wanted to do an episode on, really just like difficulty and skill level in games and trying to understand a little bit more of the dynamics involved.
00:02:40:03 - 00:02:40:20
Evan
Yeah.
00:02:40:22 - 00:02:43:08
Wade
So, I mean, a quick answer off the top of my head is.
00:02:43:08 - 00:02:43:19
Wade
That a.
00:02:43:19 - 00:02:44:23
Wade
Game can be too.
00:02:44:23 - 00:02:48:00
Wade
Difficult. but that.
00:02:48:00 - 00:02:49:11
Wade
Doesn't mean that it shouldn't.
00:02:49:11 - 00:02:53:10
Wade
Exist, right? Some people love that challenge. Dark souls.
00:02:53:10 - 00:02:55:26
Wade
Games. Elden Ring is not for everyone.
00:02:55:26 - 00:02:57:12
Wade
The developer said that.
00:02:57:14 - 00:02:57:23
Wade
part of.
00:02:57:23 - 00:03:01:25
Wade
Our identity DNA, he said, is that we make these really.
00:03:01:25 - 00:03:02:26
Wade
Difficult games, and there's a.
00:03:02:26 - 00:03:05:00
Wade
Specific player that this caters to.
00:03:05:01 - 00:03:05:10
Wade
And.
00:03:05:10 - 00:03:12:04
Wade
It's amazing to hear a dev say, our games aren't for everybody like I. And I think that that.
00:03:12:04 - 00:03:15:14
Wade
Really goes into I remember when I was doing my dissertation.
00:03:15:16 - 00:03:22:26
Wade
They said, if your research has no detractors, everybody agrees with it. It's not really.
00:03:22:26 - 00:03:23:19
Wade
Groundbreaking.
00:03:23:19 - 00:03:26:19
Wade
It's not really research. It's just a reiteration.
00:03:26:22 - 00:03:30:10
Wade
Of what's already been done. So instead, niche down, understand.
00:03:30:10 - 00:03:32:19
Wade
That you are one brick.
00:03:32:23 - 00:03:36:29
Wade
In the building of research. I think the same thing is true in games.
00:03:37:01 - 00:03:40:08
Wade
difficulty is important now.
00:03:40:10 - 00:03:41:02
Wade
Is a game.
00:03:41:02 - 00:03:43:05
Wade
Beatable? That's a better.
00:03:43:05 - 00:03:46:26
Wade
Question. I think. And maybe.
00:03:46:26 - 00:03:49:22
Wade
It's not beatable by every person, but it should be.
00:03:49:25 - 00:03:50:07
Wade
Done by.
00:03:50:07 - 00:03:51:16
Wade
Somebody.
00:03:51:19 - 00:03:57:20
Evan
But video games have a unique ability to, elicit a visceral reaction from many of.
00:03:57:20 - 00:03:59:09
Wade
Oh my gosh. Yeah. What do you do.
00:03:59:09 - 00:04:00:19
Wade
When you get frustrated in the game?
00:04:00:20 - 00:04:06:22
Evan
I think at its most basic, when I'm moving my body.
00:04:07:13 - 00:04:34:15
Evan
With the motions because I'm like trying to physically dodge and I can't be aware of the fact that I'm like, oh, like making noises and dodging around. For those of you who are listening, I made dramatic moving motion controller, fake controller in my hand. That's at its core. But then I think, eliciting audible responses from me, like, when you die, like when I die.
00:04:34:17 - 00:04:37:08
Evan
And I was close to beating a boss.
00:04:37:10 - 00:04:37:21
Evan
let's talk.
00:04:37:21 - 00:04:43:16
Evan
About this moment in gaming when the health bar gets to a certain amount on a boss that you have.
00:04:43:19 - 00:04:44:19
Wade
Rolling.
00:04:44:22 - 00:04:47:17
Evan
For, like, no, this happened to me last night when I was playing.
00:04:47:19 - 00:04:49:23
Evan
And that health bar gets really low.
00:04:49:26 - 00:05:05:01
Evan
My lizard brain goes nuts. I abandon all of the sound tactics that got me to this point in The Boss, because I'm like, I just gotta. I just got to finish it off. I just got to finish it off. So I'm not dodging. I'm not blocking. Oh no.
00:05:05:05 - 00:05:05:14
Wade
That was.
00:05:05:14 - 00:05:14:16
Evan
Me rolling. I'm not paying attention to move sequences. I am spamming damage buttons desperately so that I can just get across the line. What about.
00:05:14:16 - 00:05:16:27
Evan
You? It's it's the choke threshold, right?
00:05:16:27 - 00:05:18:09
Wade
Like this happens in.
00:05:18:09 - 00:05:19:09
Wade
Baseball or.
00:05:19:11 - 00:05:20:10
Wade
In soccer.
00:05:20:13 - 00:05:22:07
Evan
It's like the game is.
00:05:22:07 - 00:05:24:16
Wade
On the line and it depends on you.
00:05:24:16 - 00:05:28:21
Wade
And your ability. And what do you do? You choke. You choke in the moment of decision.
00:05:28:26 - 00:05:30:18
Evan
And then like, oh on.
00:05:30:18 - 00:05:34:28
Wade
I hated it in sports and I hate it in video games. And it happened to me last night. I'm still dealing with it.
00:05:35:00 - 00:05:47:10
Evan
Okay. Like I got this stupid boss. Yes. Like Zosia or whatever her name is. I hate her. So she's got two phases. I was pretty good on the first phase. Second phase? Make it all the way to the like. I have figured.
00:05:47:10 - 00:05:49:28
Wade
Out the dodging mechanics. I'm deflecting.
00:05:50:00 - 00:05:55:05
Wade
Legend of Zelda style. Fireball. Lightning bolt. Whatever's back at her.
00:05:55:08 - 00:05:57:03
Evan
She has a hair's.
00:05:57:03 - 00:06:00:15
Wade
Breadth of health. You can't even see the health on there.
00:06:00:15 - 00:06:03:14
Wade
And in.
00:06:03:16 - 00:06:18:24
Evan
I choke like I just like a choke, okay? Like I just straight up choke and like I had it in the freaking bag when hit would have done it. And she's shooting these, these lightning bolts that mean I'd like deflect, deflect.
00:06:18:24 - 00:06:21:24
Wade
And then I hesitated on the third one and she.
00:06:21:27 - 00:06:22:22
Wade
Obliterated.
00:06:22:22 - 00:06:23:00
Wade
Me.
00:06:23:00 - 00:06:24:19
Evan
And I.
00:06:24:21 - 00:06:26:11
Wade
Were angry, which is like the number one.
00:06:26:11 - 00:06:26:22
Wade
Rule.
00:06:26:29 - 00:06:28:09
Wade
In like.
00:06:28:11 - 00:06:30:08
Wade
Psychology. You don't go to bed angry, right?
00:06:30:11 - 00:06:35:13
Evan
It's a great clip. Well, we'll have to include the clip in, the segment. So I'm still.
00:06:35:17 - 00:06:36:15
Wade
Mad about it.
00:06:36:15 - 00:06:38:24
Wade
I did my controller, Evan, I bit it.
00:06:38:26 - 00:06:42:29
Evan
I bit, I bit my controller there. I think there's a tooth.
00:06:42:29 - 00:06:44:02
Wade
Mark in it.
00:06:44:05 - 00:06:46:26
Evan
Like there I bit it. I didn't know what to do.
00:06:46:27 - 00:07:05:01
Evan
At some point. That's amazing. But I mean, I think that's true, though. There's something that happens when we hit this, like, I'm just about to get over the lizard brain. Yeah. lizard brain fires off and we lose our composure. This is often the moment where, for me and my brother in our lives, it would be the voice of our mother.
00:07:05:01 - 00:07:22:18
Evan
And there's probably someone like this in your life. If you're watching or listening, who asks you one of two questions? Sometimes both in sequence. First question. Infuriating because our lizard brain is activated and the question is.
00:07:22:20 - 00:07:26:23
Evan
Do you need to take a break?
00:07:26:25 - 00:07:28:26
Wade
Somebody in the chat when I was.
00:07:28:26 - 00:07:29:29
Wade
Struggling one night.
00:07:30:03 - 00:07:31:13
Wade
Said.
00:07:31:16 - 00:07:31:28
Wade
Maybe.
00:07:31:28 - 00:07:32:08
Wade
We should.
00:07:32:08 - 00:07:33:29
Wade
Sleep on it and try again tomorrow.
00:07:33:29 - 00:07:37:15
Wade
And I was like, I dare not. You better not. You better not. I was like.
00:07:37:15 - 00:07:49:16
Evan
Just the advanced. That's the advanced version of do you need to take a break? Yeah, maybe like a suggesting a concrete action. The other thing that we get asked a question and this is usually after the do you need to take a break is.
00:07:49:23 - 00:07:50:16
Wade
Yeah.
00:07:50:18 - 00:07:56:11
Evan
Are you even having fun anymore?
00:07:56:14 - 00:07:57:19
Evan
And yes, I.
00:07:57:19 - 00:07:59:00
Wade
Am having fun.
00:07:59:03 - 00:07:59:15
Wade
But I would.
00:07:59:15 - 00:08:00:15
Wade
Have more fun if you would.
00:08:00:15 - 00:08:00:25
Wade
Stop.
00:08:00:25 - 00:08:02:01
Wade
Yapping at me and I can.
00:08:02:01 - 00:08:03:08
Evan
Get back to my game.
00:08:03:08 - 00:08:03:29
Wade
Right?
00:08:04:01 - 00:08:06:09
Evan
Yeah. And that really ends well when you say that to a.
00:08:06:13 - 00:08:10:01
Wade
Oh, when you say that to a parent or. Yeah, as a kid.
00:08:10:03 - 00:08:11:27
Wade
oh man, it's not good.
00:08:11:27 - 00:08:12:08
Wade
Right.
00:08:12:14 - 00:08:12:29
Wade
And so.
00:08:13:01 - 00:08:14:26
Evan
But there is a.
00:08:14:26 - 00:08:15:17
Wade
Component of.
00:08:15:17 - 00:08:20:20
Wade
This that's like, I love to hate this. Yeah, I love the challenge.
00:08:20:23 - 00:08:21:25
Wade
and I hate the challenge.
00:08:21:25 - 00:08:23:11
Wade
All at once because.
00:08:23:15 - 00:08:25:05
Wade
And this was true with Elden Ring.
00:08:25:05 - 00:08:31:26
Wade
This was true with Bloodborne, all of these games. And like with lies of P, even with the bosses that.
00:08:31:26 - 00:08:32:28
Wade
I've been able to beat.
00:08:32:28 - 00:08:35:23
Wade
By, you know, the.
00:08:35:25 - 00:08:36:13
Wade
you know, skin of our.
00:08:36:13 - 00:08:39:01
Wade
Teeth or whatever, which is a weird phrase, especially after.
00:08:39:01 - 00:08:39:29
Wade
You bite a controller.
00:08:39:29 - 00:08:43:08
Wade
But, when you're just barely able to.
00:08:43:08 - 00:08:43:24
Wade
Win.
00:08:44:00 - 00:08:44:14
Wade
There's.
00:08:44:14 - 00:08:46:12
Wade
Like, this endorphin rush and.
00:08:46:12 - 00:08:47:12
Wade
Release that you're like.
00:08:47:12 - 00:08:49:03
Evan
Yes, I will do this.
00:08:49:03 - 00:08:51:02
Wade
Again. And so that gameplay.
00:08:51:04 - 00:08:51:16
Wade
Loop.
00:08:51:16 - 00:08:52:13
Wade
Of emotion keeps.
00:08:52:13 - 00:08:55:00
Wade
You playing?
00:08:55:02 - 00:08:55:17
Evan
I've never.
00:08:55:17 - 00:08:57:24
Wade
Rage quit a game, though I I'll say.
00:08:57:24 - 00:09:00:04
Evan
Never.
00:09:00:06 - 00:09:01:15
Wade
I don't think so.
00:09:01:18 - 00:09:05:02
Evan
I because, like, I, I mean, I rage.
00:09:05:02 - 00:09:06:29
Wade
Quit like baseball.
00:09:07:01 - 00:09:07:27
Evan
That's a game.
00:09:07:29 - 00:09:09:27
Wade
Like I played T-ball.
00:09:09:27 - 00:09:10:05
Wade
And then.
00:09:10:05 - 00:09:11:26
Wade
Fast pitch baseball.
00:09:11:28 - 00:09:12:05
Evan
You were.
00:09:12:05 - 00:09:14:04
Wade
At it. And then I was like, I'm. I'm done.
00:09:14:06 - 00:09:18:11
Wade
But I don't know if it was like a rage quit, but.
00:09:18:11 - 00:09:20:09
Wade
It was more of like, I'm done with this.
00:09:20:12 - 00:09:43:17
Evan
I am more prone to rage quit not from strangers, but when it's I'm playing a game with somebody who's really close to me. There's multiple examples of my brother innocently quote unquote, doing something in a multiplayer game that, yeah, I had no benefit to him, but certainly messed me up. yeah, that I've, you know, it just unlocked something primal.
00:09:43:17 - 00:10:00:19
Evan
But I think the intensity of emotions can provide a window into other aspects of our lives. And as we are apt to explore, we like to talk about ideas and the things going on behind the scenes, in our brains, in our lives, and what we can learn from the way that we play games.
00:10:00:24 - 00:10:05:26
Evan
So what?
00:10:05:28 - 00:10:22:20
Evan
Is the best way to phrase this segment? I think our guiding phrase would be something like how to know when you aren't having fun anymore, and understanding the ways you like to be challenged, how to know when you aren't having fun anymore, and understanding the ways that you like to be challenged.
00:10:22:26 - 00:10:24:00
Wade
When is it time to.
00:10:24:00 - 00:10:24:20
Wade
Take a break?
00:10:25:12 - 00:10:27:08
Wade
You know, in one of our previous.
00:10:27:08 - 00:10:28:02
Wade
Segments, we.
00:10:28:02 - 00:10:29:15
Wade
Talked about the idea.
00:10:29:15 - 00:10:31:07
Wade
Of games, helping you.
00:10:31:07 - 00:10:33:25
Wade
Recover, recover yourself. Right.
00:10:33:28 - 00:10:44:17
Wade
And so something that I've got to be attune with is sometimes this happens with the things that come out of my mouth or the actions that I'm having. If I'm wanting to throw a controller through a screen or whatever. Yeah.
00:10:44:19 - 00:10:46:19
Wade
We talked about this idea of.
00:10:46:19 - 00:10:48:25
Wade
Gaming as recovering.
00:10:48:28 - 00:10:52:04
Wade
Your lost self when you are.
00:10:52:04 - 00:10:53:20
Wade
No longer recovering.
00:10:53:20 - 00:10:54:17
Wade
Your lost self.
00:10:54:17 - 00:10:56:05
Wade
But maybe you're living into that.
00:10:56:05 - 00:10:57:06
Wade
Lost self.
00:10:57:09 - 00:11:01:27
Wade
You're saying you're interacting. You're doing things that are not.
00:11:01:29 - 00:11:06:14
Wade
Who you are and who who you aspire to be. That's that's one of those.
00:11:06:14 - 00:11:07:17
Wade
Reactions that I'm like, oh.
00:11:07:18 - 00:11:11:05
Wade
I maybe I should take a break. It's okay.
00:11:11:07 - 00:11:12:12
Wade
you know, if I'm like, being.
00:11:12:12 - 00:11:13:17
Wade
Destructive to.
00:11:13:17 - 00:11:14:19
Wade
Things, if I'm mad.
00:11:14:19 - 00:11:15:20
Wade
At the dog because she.
00:11:15:20 - 00:11:16:03
Wade
Snored a.
00:11:16:03 - 00:11:16:25
Wade
Little too loudly.
00:11:16:25 - 00:11:17:26
Wade
Next to me.
00:11:17:29 - 00:11:18:20
Wade
maybe, maybe it's like.
00:11:18:20 - 00:11:19:16
Wade
Okay, let me go get a.
00:11:19:17 - 00:11:20:22
Wade
Triscuit or something.
00:11:20:24 - 00:11:22:13
Wade
And I'll come back a Triscuit.
00:11:22:13 - 00:11:24:13
Wade
I don't know why I don't even own Triscuits.
00:11:24:13 - 00:11:37:20
Evan
But I need to breaded wheat crackers that like apples and peanut butter or somebody. How do they weave those little wheat tendrils together into a beautiful. Yeah, I need someone. Give me a saltine.
00:11:37:21 - 00:11:40:27
Evan
I'm experiencing transference of my frustrations onto my dog.
00:11:40:27 - 00:11:44:16
Evan
Quick! I need a Triscuit.
00:11:44:18 - 00:11:47:05
Wade
It's like that Snickers commercial that.
00:11:47:07 - 00:11:47:14
Wade
Not.
00:11:47:14 - 00:11:49:26
Wade
Yourself? Yeah, those are great commercials.
00:11:49:26 - 00:11:51:26
Evan
It's true. It's true. I mean.
00:11:51:29 - 00:11:52:27
Wade
I'm Betty White.
00:11:52:29 - 00:11:58:05
Evan
I know friends who carry snacks around with them to make sure that in case their other friends get hungry.
00:11:58:09 - 00:11:59:03
Wade
They feed.
00:11:59:03 - 00:12:02:01
Evan
Them. So that's how you are with your granola bars?
00:12:02:01 - 00:12:09:00
Wade
I that's just how my friends are. When we are traveling together, they bring emergency food for me, not for themselves, for me.
00:12:09:07 - 00:12:11:00
Evan
Because they know. They know you're going to fall because.
00:12:11:00 - 00:12:13:02
Wade
They know, oh, you're snoring too loudly.
00:12:13:04 - 00:12:45:17
Evan
Okay, so let's talk about some ways that we can understand and why we're feeling certain way. So there's some research that was done that we wanted to talk about. that will help us to understand what to do when the thing that you go to, to restore you and help you recover isn't really serving that function anymore. When the thing that you go to to recover or restore yourself isn't really serving that function anymore, because you're either too stressed out or you're bored, or you just don't seem interested anymore because that's a bit of a crisis.
00:12:45:21 - 00:12:54:25
Evan
Have you ever had that moment where the thing that you would normally turn to to help you kind of recenter yourself and relax, that stress of life.
00:12:54:25 - 00:12:56:02
Wade
Becomes a moment of stress?
00:12:56:02 - 00:13:08:05
Evan
Yes, yes, it's way into that. I mean, what what do you do? It's this moment where you really feel loss. You just kind of. For me, I just kind of sit there. What does that look like for you when you don't even want to do the things that you do for fun?
00:13:08:07 - 00:13:09:29
Wade
Yeah. I mean, I was talking to a friend of mine.
00:13:09:29 - 00:13:12:08
Wade
Recently about how he felt burnt.
00:13:12:08 - 00:13:15:21
Wade
Out on games, and he was telling me, you know, kind of that feeling. He was like.
00:13:15:21 - 00:13:16:23
Wade
Yeah, that usually.
00:13:16:23 - 00:13:19:12
Wade
Gives me a sense of fulfillment and like.
00:13:19:12 - 00:13:20:14
Wade
Just a escape.
00:13:20:14 - 00:13:21:11
Wade
And all that kind of stuff.
00:13:21:11 - 00:13:22:13
Wade
But lately I just.
00:13:22:13 - 00:13:26:00
Wade
Feel like I'm burned out. There's nothing I really want to play and stuff. And the.
00:13:26:00 - 00:13:29:08
Wade
Way that he mitigated that was, trying to.
00:13:29:08 - 00:13:30:14
Wade
Reach channel into some other.
00:13:30:14 - 00:13:31:04
Wade
Activities.
00:13:31:04 - 00:13:31:20
Wade
So reading a.
00:13:31:20 - 00:13:33:01
Wade
Book or.
00:13:33:03 - 00:13:35:15
Wade
you know, playing music, he's a musician and.
00:13:35:15 - 00:13:39:25
Wade
Stuff like that. So it was just diverting those things.
00:13:39:28 - 00:13:40:27
Wade
Sometimes we do need.
00:13:40:27 - 00:13:41:09
Wade
To take a.
00:13:41:09 - 00:13:43:02
Wade
Break from the things that.
00:13:43:02 - 00:13:45:14
Wade
We use to take breaks.
00:13:45:17 - 00:13:46:21
Wade
you know,
00:13:46:23 - 00:13:49:11
Wade
I think that we all feel that, but.
00:13:49:11 - 00:13:50:00
Wade
Then there.
00:13:50:00 - 00:13:51:06
Wade
Are these catalytic.
00:13:51:06 - 00:13:56:29
Wade
Moments when the thing that we typically enjoy is no longer enjoyable, and there's an.
00:13:56:29 - 00:13:59:08
Wade
Actual reason why. Okay.
00:13:59:11 - 00:14:00:02
Evan
that.
00:14:00:04 - 00:14:01:04
Wade
Well, and I.
00:14:01:04 - 00:14:05:13
Wade
Think that it has to do with the play style. It has to do with the frustration.
00:14:07:10 - 00:14:08:13
Wade
maybe,
00:14:08:15 - 00:14:10:26
Wade
Escalating beyond our enjoyment.
00:14:10:28 - 00:14:11:12
Wade
Of the.
00:14:11:12 - 00:14:11:23
Wade
Thing.
00:14:11:23 - 00:14:13:17
Wade
Now, you, have have.
00:14:13:17 - 00:14:14:14
Wade
Done research in this.
00:14:14:14 - 00:14:15:00
Wade
Before, like.
00:14:15:00 - 00:14:20:20
Wade
You, when you were, in college and studying on a all of that kind of stuff.
00:14:20:23 - 00:14:21:21
Wade
you've got a chart or.
00:14:21:21 - 00:14:23:00
Wade
Something that.
00:14:23:03 - 00:14:24:11
Wade
helps us out with that. Tell us about it.
00:14:24:12 - 00:14:30:03
Evan
Yeah, let's talk about it. This is an on a mark that, I am presenting some research today.
00:14:30:04 - 00:14:32:03
Wade
I know. Right? This is a big moment.
00:14:32:06 - 00:14:33:05
Evan
reversal.
00:14:33:08 - 00:14:37:00
Wade
I didn't know about this. You told it to me off stream, and I was like, oh, my gosh.
00:14:37:00 - 00:14:37:10
Wade
That's.
00:14:37:10 - 00:14:38:09
Wade
Something we need to talk about.
00:14:38:10 - 00:14:43:01
Evan
Should I do it in your style? trying to imitate your cadence.
00:14:43:03 - 00:14:47:12
Wade
Seriously, a believer labored and boring.
00:14:47:14 - 00:14:48:21
Wade
My students would love that.
00:14:48:21 - 00:14:55:19
Evan
So say you say da da da da da da da da da da. Now, this is the thing. Is that the da da.
00:14:55:19 - 00:14:58:06
Evan
Da da da. that's not everybody.
00:14:58:08 - 00:15:00:15
Evan
Oh, that's my prof. Nauseous impression.
00:15:00:17 - 00:15:01:21
Wade
That's, There we go.
00:15:01:27 - 00:15:26:17
Evan
There we go. Now, if you can't see, so there's a guy named Maha Yatra to Maha. Yeah. I'm going to spell each letter of his name so that you can just really appreciate that pronunciation. M I h a l y. First name. Last name. Chitta maha csi KZN t m I h a l y I.
00:15:26:19 - 00:15:28:08
Wade
Holy crap, that is.
00:15:28:10 - 00:15:30:00
Wade
A stunning last name.
00:15:30:00 - 00:15:31:02
Evan
It's incredible.
00:15:31:05 - 00:15:34:19
Evan
Does it have every letter in the alphabet?
00:15:34:21 - 00:15:40:29
Evan
It's close. It's almost a quick brown fox jumped over a lazy dog.
00:15:41:01 - 00:15:43:11
Wade
It's a reference. Good reference.
00:15:43:13 - 00:16:02:00
Evan
Millard's going crazy. My dog behind me. so he wrote it. the flow in 1990, which is this theory that he has on the flow state, which some of you have heard about this kind of flow state and what it is, is it's a chart and so on. One axis of this chart is kind of challenge.
00:16:02:03 - 00:16:24:26
Evan
So the ways in how challenged you feel the other one is skill. So how skilled you are at something. So when the challenge is too high for your skill you start to feel anxious or stressed. So if I were to say, Wade, I, there's a car outside, I need you to take apart the engine and put it back together.
00:16:24:26 - 00:16:53:26
Evan
And two hours. That is not something that you would probably have the skill for. And the challenge would be too high. So that would be pretty stressful if I asked you to do that. But on the other side if the challenge is too low but your skill is too high, that creates boredom or apathy. So if I was to say, wait, I need you to go outside, and I need you to, count the blades of grass in your yard, you would get pretty bored and apathetic.
00:16:53:28 - 00:17:25:17
Evan
yeah. Activity. Right. But he says when skill appropriately matches, challenge, when skill appropriately matches challenge, that's where you're in the sweet spot. And what he observed in his research was you can get into what he called a flow state around that, where you kind of lose track of time a little bit. It feels like there's this window where you can be appropriately challenged with the appropriate skill, and you will grow and not feel overly anxious and stressed, and you won't feel bored.
00:17:25:21 - 00:17:35:23
Evan
So we have the ability to understand and steward the level of difficulty and our skill set in the way that we play games and in life. What do you think about that?
00:17:35:25 - 00:17:38:13
Wade
I have, I, I love it first.
00:17:38:13 - 00:17:39:16
Wade
Of all, and I think that it.
00:17:39:16 - 00:17:40:02
Wade
Does.
00:17:40:02 - 00:17:42:10
Wade
Mirror my own experience of games. I have a.
00:17:42:10 - 00:17:42:21
Wade
Couple of.
00:17:42:21 - 00:17:45:02
Wade
Questions.
00:17:45:04 - 00:17:46:27
Evan
challenge is that static.
00:17:47:03 - 00:17:50:00
Wade
Challenge does not change for something.
00:17:50:00 - 00:18:04:17
Evan
So the level of challenge would be depending on the activity. So like if we just quantify at zero through ten right, right. you would just plot it like kind of like on a, on a chart. So you would say what's the challenge level of this activity and challenge? Would be.
00:18:05:04 - 00:18:15:05
Evan
Different, you know, for each person to write like, because it's your skill set and your perception or experience with the challenge, it's not necessary. Okay. But universal.
00:18:15:08 - 00:18:16:14
Wade
But for an activity.
00:18:16:14 - 00:18:17:05
Wade
Or something like.
00:18:17:05 - 00:18:17:24
Wade
That, a.
00:18:17:24 - 00:18:24:24
Wade
Challenge, is kind of set in stone.
00:18:24:27 - 00:18:26:14
Wade
but the skill set of.
00:18:26:14 - 00:18:27:10
Wade
The person is the.
00:18:27:10 - 00:18:28:29
Wade
Variable there.
00:18:29:02 - 00:18:30:05
Wade
to, to a degree.
00:18:30:10 - 00:18:31:10
Wade
Yeah. So like.
00:18:31:12 - 00:18:33:20
Wade
It may not be challenging, but it really.
00:18:33:20 - 00:18:34:07
Wade
That that.
00:18:34:07 - 00:18:34:29
Wade
Challenge is.
00:18:34:29 - 00:18:35:23
Wade
Always a level.
00:18:35:23 - 00:18:36:20
Wade
Seven.
00:18:36:22 - 00:18:38:27
Wade
If I were to quantify it. But your skill.
00:18:38:27 - 00:18:40:05
Wade
Set may not match.
00:18:40:05 - 00:18:40:18
Wade
That level.
00:18:40:18 - 00:18:41:17
Wade
Seven. You may be a level.
00:18:41:17 - 00:18:41:29
Wade
Five.
00:18:41:29 - 00:18:44:15
Wade
Or you may be a level ten, which is going to.
00:18:44:16 - 00:18:46:00
Wade
Create anxiety or.
00:18:46:00 - 00:18:47:15
Wade
Boredom.
00:18:47:18 - 00:18:48:23
Wade
as a result.
00:18:48:26 - 00:18:49:20
Evan
I think that's a really.
00:18:49:20 - 00:18:50:11
Wade
Interesting.
00:18:50:11 - 00:18:52:00
Wade
Piece there because especially as.
00:18:52:00 - 00:18:54:04
Wade
We're talking about games like Elden Ring or Lies.
00:18:54:04 - 00:18:57:19
Wade
Of PE, especially the shadow of their tree stuff.
00:18:57:21 - 00:19:01:06
Wade
there's this sense that every challenge is like a ten, and it.
00:19:01:06 - 00:19:02:28
Wade
Probably isn't right.
00:19:03:01 - 00:19:04:09
Wade
I mean, I haven't played much of.
00:19:04:09 - 00:19:04:26
Wade
It at this.
00:19:04:26 - 00:19:06:23
Wade
Point.
00:19:06:25 - 00:19:14:01
Wade
but this is where that whole concept of get good comes in, you know? or what skills or resources.
00:19:14:01 - 00:19:15:20
Wade
Have you not unlocked?
00:19:15:22 - 00:19:17:07
Wade
There's a gameplay loop.
00:19:17:07 - 00:19:18:09
Wade
That demands you.
00:19:18:09 - 00:19:20:00
Wade
Rise to the.
00:19:20:00 - 00:19:23:11
Wade
Occasion. Rise to the challenge.
00:19:23:14 - 00:19:25:07
Wade
and so you level up or you.
00:19:25:09 - 00:19:31:08
Wade
you know, work on your reaction time and all of those kind of things. I think this is a really interesting and helpful thing, but I.
00:19:31:08 - 00:19:38:09
Wade
Do think that it's helpful to also think of a challenge as static and skills as the variable there.
00:19:38:12 - 00:20:03:02
Evan
Yeah. well, I think, you know, you look at the opportunity and, you can't you you can't change the challenge in life of some things necessarily. Yeah. Now in games this is what's interesting. You can come down the difficulty. So for a lot of games a challenge becomes static right. Same activity. But you're just lowering the difficulty or you're breaking it down into bite size pieces and making it more approachable.
00:20:03:04 - 00:20:15:05
Evan
right. So this is an interesting thing when we talk about games, they I'm going to sneeze.
00:20:15:07 - 00:20:29:09
Evan
A start it this is an interesting thing. This is an interesting thing because when we talk about games, they steward you in your skill versus the challenge. They can present themselves to.
00:20:29:09 - 00:20:29:19
Wade
Yeah.
00:20:29:24 - 00:20:57:22
Evan
So really great games. typically to be more approachable. We'll try and give you a tutorial and then slowly ramp up what you do and what you experience so that you don't get overwhelmed. Older games did not do this as much, and there are some modern games that just throw you right into. But do you have some examples or things that come to mind when you think about games, who ramp that challenge and skill well together and kind of increase your competency as you go?
00:20:57:24 - 00:20:58:13
Wade
I mean, I think.
00:20:58:13 - 00:21:05:24
Wade
That the classic example is Mario Brothers, right? I mean, it's scales immediately. It's got a,
00:21:05:26 - 00:21:06:24
Wade
An unspoken.
00:21:06:24 - 00:21:07:16
Wade
Tutorial.
00:21:07:16 - 00:21:08:19
Wade
Of jumping on the.
00:21:08:19 - 00:21:15:23
Wade
The Goombas head or whatever. But the, the further you go.
00:21:15:23 - 00:21:18:08
Wade
You're learning techniques.
00:21:18:08 - 00:21:18:25
Wade
Along the way.
00:21:18:25 - 00:21:19:11
Wade
That are going.
00:21:19:11 - 00:21:20:29
Wade
To be necessary.
00:21:20:29 - 00:21:21:16
Wade
In later.
00:21:21:16 - 00:21:22:13
Wade
Levels.
00:21:22:16 - 00:21:28:01
Wade
I think it's a masterclass in game design.
00:21:28:03 - 00:21:29:01
Wade
but.
00:21:29:04 - 00:21:34:06
Wade
You know, modern games do this as well. and I think.
00:21:34:08 - 00:21:35:16
Wade
I think that they do iterate.
00:21:35:16 - 00:21:36:25
Wade
On that same thing. I mean.
00:21:36:25 - 00:21:37:27
Wade
It is true with that like.
00:21:37:27 - 00:21:39:24
Wade
Elden Ring, have you played Elden Ring by.
00:21:39:24 - 00:21:43:02
Wade
By chance? No, no. Okay.
00:21:43:02 - 00:21:49:23
Wade
So Elden Ring starts you out. I mean, you can die in the tutorial easily, but, you can also.
00:21:49:23 - 00:21:50:05
Wade
Skip the.
00:21:50:05 - 00:21:51:10
Wade
Tutorial entirely.
00:21:51:10 - 00:21:52:21
Wade
Because it looks like a hole that you would.
00:21:52:21 - 00:21:53:28
Wade
Die in because of gravity.
00:21:53:28 - 00:21:54:09
Wade
Which is.
00:21:54:09 - 00:21:55:18
Wade
My greatest enemy in a.
00:21:55:18 - 00:21:56:25
Wade
Game. Gravity?
00:21:56:27 - 00:21:58:09
Wade
Any of my stream? Yeah.
00:21:58:09 - 00:21:59:08
Wade
There's a running joke.
00:21:59:08 - 00:22:00:21
Wade
That Isaac Newton is my final.
00:22:00:21 - 00:22:01:24
Wade
Boss.
00:22:01:26 - 00:22:04:12
Wade
That's true. Yeah, and it's true.
00:22:04:13 - 00:22:04:29
Wade
Like, I've got.
00:22:04:29 - 00:22:07:08
Wade
Words for him for creating gravity, you know?
00:22:07:13 - 00:22:09:16
Evan
So let me know when you talk about.
00:22:09:19 - 00:22:11:06
Wade
Well, some.
00:22:11:08 - 00:22:11:27
Wade
There, there can.
00:22:11:27 - 00:22:13:10
Wade
Be, I think one.
00:22:13:12 - 00:22:14:01
Evan
Which is.
00:22:14:08 - 00:22:15:15
Evan
Mr. Isaac Newton.
00:22:15:19 - 00:22:18:01
Wade
I sure did. Me or Isaac Newton.
00:22:18:01 - 00:22:22:16
Evan
I'm going to find you, Isaac Newton. There can only be what?
00:22:22:18 - 00:22:24:28
Wade
So, but with.
00:22:24:28 - 00:22:26:15
Wade
Elden Ring, I mean, you're fighting these.
00:22:26:23 - 00:22:27:06
Wade
grunt.
00:22:27:06 - 00:22:30:29
Wade
Skeleton, zombie looking guys, and then. Then you make your way.
00:22:30:29 - 00:22:31:09
Wade
Up to these.
00:22:31:09 - 00:22:31:23
Wade
Dragons.
00:22:31:23 - 00:22:34:17
Wade
But if you can't kill the former.
00:22:34:19 - 00:22:35:00
Wade
and know.
00:22:35:00 - 00:22:35:13
Wade
All of the.
00:22:35:13 - 00:22:36:02
Wade
Techniques.
00:22:36:02 - 00:22:36:05
Wade
The.
00:22:36:05 - 00:22:36:28
Wade
Dodging.
00:22:36:28 - 00:22:38:21
Wade
The the.
00:22:38:23 - 00:22:42:04
Wade
kind of staggering system and all that kind of stuff, you're really going to have a.
00:22:42:04 - 00:22:43:02
Wade
Hard time.
00:22:43:05 - 00:22:44:03
Wade
Some of these later things.
00:22:44:03 - 00:22:46:04
Wade
What what game does it well for you?
00:22:46:07 - 00:23:10:27
Evan
Well, I'm playing God of War Ragnarok. Like we talked about. I'm really enjoying it that that's the game that I'm just kind of focused on the mechanics right now. So, I'll speak to that. it does some interesting things. It ramps you up really well. It limits you having too many move sets to make you use the moves that you have, and then introduces more complicated mechanics as the game goes on.
00:23:10:29 - 00:23:31:11
Evan
So it feels really fresh. yeah. Because you don't I get really overwhelmed by just like a giant move set. Like if we're playing fighting games and somebody pulls up the like, controls menu and you see all the different buttons and they're just displayed on a long list, I just look at that and I, I don't really know where to start.
00:23:31:11 - 00:23:34:27
Evan
So it does a good job holding you back and kind of gaining.
00:23:34:27 - 00:23:35:12
Wade
Yeah.
00:23:35:12 - 00:23:54:06
Evan
From trying out too many skills because you learn to appreciate what you like and don't like kind of along the way. So it trickles those out. So that was good. And the other ways that it mitigates difficulty is if you enter into a zone and you die, but you didn't have full health, when you respawn, it'll give you health back.
00:23:54:13 - 00:24:12:11
Evan
And so that's kind of a soft thing that I've noticed is that they'll say, well, maybe the let's just maybe the reason you died is because you went into this fight with 25% health. So sure, you respawn, we'll give you 100% health. And most of the time that's kind of enough to kind of see it through.
00:24:12:13 - 00:24:15:22
Wade
You played the first one, regular God of War.
00:24:15:24 - 00:24:16:19
Wade
I'm assuming, because.
00:24:16:19 - 00:24:20:16
Wade
There's like a direct sequel. Right. But as far as difficulty.
00:24:20:16 - 00:24:21:02
Wade
Is concerned, did.
00:24:21:02 - 00:24:25:26
Wade
You feel like Ragnarok picks up at a higher level of.
00:24:25:26 - 00:24:26:27
Wade
Difficulty than the first.
00:24:26:27 - 00:24:29:15
Wade
One, or does it also tutorials.
00:24:29:15 - 00:24:30:14
Wade
You in the same way that.
00:24:30:14 - 00:24:30:24
Wade
The.
00:24:30:24 - 00:24:31:17
Wade
First one did?
00:24:31:19 - 00:24:56:00
Evan
I think it does a better job than the first one. I think it limits your abilities because you don't start with all your stuff at the end of the film. Yeah, you have all your stuff unlocked and everything like that. So you launch into the second game and you don't. You're kind of starting over. You do have some of the weapons and things like that in life right away, but it keeps you back and kind of starts you over.
00:24:56:00 - 00:25:05:23
Evan
I think if you played the first one, you could understand the combat mechanics a little bit, but those are also improved in the second one that they've done. Like the timings are better, the performance.
00:25:05:23 - 00:25:06:14
Wade
Yeah, because.
00:25:06:14 - 00:25:29:11
Evan
You're looking at like a late gen four game that was really asking everything it could of the PS4 versus kind of a launch ish title on the show. So the performance in itself just makes everything a little more clear and easy to understand. But I think it's it kind of starts you over. I mean, it even has like a God of War one recap just in case you've played in a while or done it so I was pretty impressed with it.
00:25:29:14 - 00:25:31:21
Wade
Good. Have you ever.
00:25:31:21 - 00:25:37:10
Wade
Experienced, the Mario Maker custom levels?
00:25:37:12 - 00:25:43:06
Evan
Yes, that is that one of those called I Kaiser.
00:25:43:07 - 00:25:47:01
Wade
Kaiser I Kaiser is like Godzilla. There's a specific.
00:25:47:02 - 00:25:48:21
Evan
It would be Godzilla.
00:25:48:23 - 00:25:50:15
Wade
Okay. Kaiju.
00:25:50:17 - 00:25:54:15
Evan
I think it is. I know what I do, I know, I.
00:25:54:15 - 00:25:58:26
Wade
Know, but like I'm trying to think what the Mario levels are called.
00:25:58:28 - 00:26:00:03
Evan
Like really difficult ones.
00:26:00:03 - 00:26:00:25
Evan
I think it's called.
00:26:00:25 - 00:26:06:27
Wade
Kaiju or kaiju. Let's let's Google this.
00:26:06:29 - 00:26:10:06
Evan
Mario Maker level called.
00:26:10:08 - 00:26:11:27
Wade
I think it's called Kaiser. That's my final.
00:26:11:27 - 00:26:15:02
Wade
Answer. And I may.
00:26:15:02 - 00:26:16:12
Wade
Be.
00:26:16:15 - 00:26:17:22
Wade
Misspelling that.
00:26:17:24 - 00:26:20:26
Evan
I can't find a name.
00:26:20:29 - 00:26:22:19
Wade
Okay. Let me let me find your.
00:26:22:20 - 00:26:23:19
Evan
Old research and I'll.
00:26:23:19 - 00:26:31:18
Wade
Type. Okay. So but these levels are like brutally crushingly difficult. Yeah. Right. And yeah, it's a souls.
00:26:31:18 - 00:26:31:24
Wade
Like.
00:26:31:24 - 00:26:33:18
Wade
Mario. but.
00:26:33:23 - 00:26:35:16
Evan
Let's explain that for those.
00:26:35:16 - 00:26:36:16
Wade
Who know, does.
00:26:36:16 - 00:27:01:07
Evan
This show is, for people who love games and also for people who love people who love games. Oh, sure. Make sure that we break down some of those things. So a souls like game refers to a specific style of game. Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, where you have, a high level of difficulty and some pretty raw mechanics, and it takes a lot of, I will just say, sadistic pleasure in the level of difficulty that you have.
00:27:01:07 - 00:27:18:18
Evan
So to beat those games, you do have to have like an understanding and a high mechanical skill. That's not a perfect definition, but it's a good working definition so that you could be caught up. So souls like game means it's just, kind of a more, action oriented, punishing game. That's a now give a worse definition of the end.
00:27:18:18 - 00:27:19:24
Evan
But there have.
00:27:19:26 - 00:27:23:17
Wade
Hizo as specified by Wikipedia.
00:27:23:20 - 00:27:25:20
Wade
Meaning modification, rebuild.
00:27:25:20 - 00:27:25:25
Wade
Or.
00:27:25:25 - 00:27:27:07
Wade
Reconfiguration is a.
00:27:27:07 - 00:27:27:29
Wade
Philosophy.
00:27:27:29 - 00:27:28:27
Wade
Of game design.
00:27:28:27 - 00:27:29:20
Wade
Specifically.
00:27:29:20 - 00:27:30:24
Wade
Platforming games.
00:27:30:29 - 00:27:33:03
Wade
Distinguished by a high degree of.
00:27:33:03 - 00:27:34:13
Wade
Strictness.
00:27:34:16 - 00:27:35:10
Wade
Placed upon.
00:27:35:10 - 00:27:37:26
Wade
The player's intended actions and movements.
00:27:37:28 - 00:27:47:23
Wade
Through a level. This is also called hard ay eff right? Like this is just like the worst is the hardest freaking thing.
00:27:47:23 - 00:27:48:08
Wade
It's like, you've got.
00:27:48:08 - 00:27:49:17
Wade
To get on.
00:27:49:17 - 00:27:53:01
Wade
The turtle's back and take the shell and kick it against a wall, and then bounce off.
00:27:53:01 - 00:27:53:14
Wade
The shell.
00:27:53:14 - 00:27:53:24
Wade
Again.
00:27:53:24 - 00:27:56:24
Wade
To avoid spikes. I mean, it's madness.
00:27:56:26 - 00:28:01:04
Evan
So how does difficulty impact your sense of accomplishment then as a player?
00:28:01:07 - 00:28:05:21
Wade
So with that particular thing.
00:28:05:23 - 00:28:07:22
Wade
I cannot beat those levels.
00:28:07:26 - 00:28:09:18
Wade
Okay. Like I've beaten one.
00:28:09:18 - 00:28:10:19
Wade
Level in my.
00:28:10:19 - 00:28:17:18
Wade
Life. Okay. So level. I don't even remember which one it was because I blocked it from my memory, because I didn't really have that.
00:28:17:18 - 00:28:18:20
Wade
Much of a fun time with.
00:28:18:20 - 00:28:20:14
Wade
It. Like, I it really was.
00:28:20:14 - 00:28:21:15
Wade
Frustrating for me. But I.
00:28:21:15 - 00:28:22:11
Wade
Did beat it.
00:28:22:14 - 00:28:23:26
Wade
And,
00:28:23:28 - 00:28:26:28
Wade
It was like the the.
00:28:27:03 - 00:28:28:05
Wade
Challenge.
00:28:28:08 - 00:28:28:22
Wade
Far.
00:28:28:22 - 00:28:31:28
Wade
Exceeded my skill. And I think that's the thing that was.
00:28:31:28 - 00:28:32:18
Wade
Frustrating.
00:28:32:18 - 00:28:32:27
Wade
To me.
00:28:32:27 - 00:28:34:18
Wade
There was that.
00:28:34:20 - 00:28:35:28
Wade
I jumped into this.
00:28:35:28 - 00:28:36:19
Wade
Particular.
00:28:36:19 - 00:28:37:04
Wade
One.
00:28:37:04 - 00:28:37:26
Wade
Without.
00:28:37:26 - 00:28:39:01
Wade
Having any kind of.
00:28:39:03 - 00:28:39:20
Wade
Tutorial.
00:28:39:20 - 00:28:41:10
Wade
Ization, so there was no way for my.
00:28:41:10 - 00:28:41:26
Wade
Skills to.
00:28:41:26 - 00:28:43:01
Wade
Improve.
00:28:43:03 - 00:28:45:03
Wade
So maybe that's the key, right?
00:28:45:03 - 00:28:46:00
Wade
A game is.
00:28:46:04 - 00:28:54:17
Wade
Too hard if it doesn't provide the resources needed for your skills to improve.
00:28:54:20 - 00:28:54:29
Evan
Yeah.
00:28:55:07 - 00:29:11:19
Evan
And or if that's not the challenge you're seeking out, right. Some people like to be thrown in in like I think of anybody who plays the game. That's like a bullet hell game. A bullet hole. Yeah. Is a game that just throws a lot of things at you, and you have to fight and dodge around at the same time.
00:29:11:24 - 00:29:29:09
Evan
So imagine you're on like a tennis court and there's like 20 players with tennis rackets and tennis balls on the other side. Yeah. And your job is to run around the tennis court and not get hit by a tennis ball. bullet hell, game is like 20 people just pelting you with tennis balls. The whole time. And so, yeah, it's hard to navigate.
00:29:29:09 - 00:29:48:01
Evan
You're just dodging around. So some people like that, where they intentionally place themselves in that kind of vulnerable position because they like the challenge that it heightens them, too. But yeah, that's fair. I think we have to talk about different types of difficulty because we're typically referring to like mechanical difficulty, but difficulty manifests itself in some other ways.
00:29:48:01 - 00:30:08:20
Evan
Mechanical skill is one way that we think about it with games kind of that fast twitch, like, you know, like 360, no scope, like all this things, right? That I, I can move the controller and my, my character on the screen will move and I react. My reaction time is good. The hand-eye coordination. But I think there's strategy difficulty.
00:30:08:20 - 00:30:34:06
Evan
Right? There's creative difficulty in games that you have to be kind of more creative in the way that you solve problems. There's consistency as difficulty. So investment over time in your ability to develop that kind of in your character over time and discipline. That's a difficulty. There's social difficulty where you have to coordinate with other players. So if you have better organization or social skills and thinking specifically of like World of Warcraft guilds.
00:30:34:06 - 00:30:36:07
Wade
Or Dawn trails. Yeah, right.
00:30:36:10 - 00:31:10:08
Evan
where you have these different kinds of difficulties. And I think that's been an interesting thing that's happened in games. Is that different can be perceived in some other ways. So when we look at difficulty for this example and for us as once you're explaining the topic, I think make sure that we're recognizing what kind of difficulty we like to experience, because there's a chance that if you're stressed or bored and the game isn't doing anything about it, you might need to try and find some other games or think about games in a different way, in the way that you want to explore that difficulty and that challenge.
00:31:10:10 - 00:31:11:06
Wade
Yeah, I.
00:31:11:06 - 00:31:11:23
Wade
Think that that's.
00:31:11:23 - 00:31:13:16
Wade
Exactly right. for example.
00:31:13:16 - 00:31:14:14
Wade
Right now I'm playing lots.
00:31:14:14 - 00:31:19:01
Wade
Of to prepare myself for shadow of their tree. So which is,
00:31:19:03 - 00:31:19:14
Wade
Elden.
00:31:19:14 - 00:31:20:01
Evan
Ring expansion.
00:31:20:02 - 00:31:21:07
Wade
Elden Ring.
00:31:21:10 - 00:31:26:03
Wade
DLC. Yeah. and so I knew that.
00:31:26:05 - 00:31:28:21
Wade
Elden Ring was coming out with this DLC, and that's.
00:31:28:21 - 00:31:29:24
Wade
Why I chose lies of.
00:31:29:24 - 00:31:31:08
Wade
P to kind of get myself back into.
00:31:31:08 - 00:31:31:23
Wade
It. I probably would.
00:31:31:23 - 00:31:32:19
Wade
Have done better.
00:31:32:22 - 00:31:33:12
Wade
To have just played.
00:31:33:12 - 00:31:37:25
Wade
Elden Ring again, but I am liking lies up until last night.
00:31:37:27 - 00:31:40:12
Wade
I still like it. I'm just motivated.
00:31:40:15 - 00:32:09:20
Evan
So what do you do when you encounter this in real life? Because I think this is where, you know, the games as a practice for real life and really grow in life. The games when you experience something stressful in games or when you experience boredom because you're not being challenged and and you see that in your life, like you experience stress or anxiety, how can this give us a framework to really try and provide some language to understand what's going on in our lives, and really let other people into it as well, after we have that self-awareness?
00:32:09:20 - 00:32:17:02
Evan
Because I think this could be really valuable personally and professionally too, because it gives some language to be able to practice that as we kind of go into our lives.
00:32:17:04 - 00:32:18:03
Wade
You want to have something like.
00:32:18:03 - 00:32:19:07
Wade
Really like.
00:32:19:11 - 00:32:21:01
Wade
Personal and intense.
00:32:21:03 - 00:32:23:08
Wade
at,
00:32:23:10 - 00:32:26:15
Wade
I have found not just from my life, but from everybody.
00:32:26:15 - 00:32:27:09
Wade
I talked to that.
00:32:27:09 - 00:32:27:20
Wade
Around.
00:32:27:21 - 00:32:29:10
Wade
Age 35.
00:32:29:14 - 00:32:31:11
Wade
Something happens.
00:32:31:14 - 00:32:32:13
Wade
to all of us that.
00:32:32:13 - 00:32:35:14
Wade
Have kind of gone through, the traditional means.
00:32:35:14 - 00:32:36:21
Wade
Of.
00:32:36:23 - 00:32:37:17
Wade
school.
00:32:37:17 - 00:32:44:11
Wade
Job, work, live life, all, all that kind of stuff. But about 35, you get into a.
00:32:44:11 - 00:32:46:03
Wade
Routine, some might even say.
00:32:46:03 - 00:32:48:20
Wade
A rut. And it's like, is this all there is?
00:32:48:24 - 00:32:49:19
Wade
I can do.
00:32:49:19 - 00:32:52:17
Wade
This stuff with my eyes shut.
00:32:52:19 - 00:32:52:29
Wade
especially.
00:32:52:29 - 00:32:53:10
Wade
If you don't have.
00:32:53:10 - 00:32:54:09
Wade
Kids or anything like.
00:32:54:09 - 00:32:56:18
Wade
That, which I think is a whole other.
00:32:56:21 - 00:32:58:29
Wade
component of difficulty and challenge.
00:32:59:01 - 00:32:59:19
Wade
Perhaps.
00:32:59:23 - 00:33:02:00
Wade
But when it comes to your job and your.
00:33:02:00 - 00:33:03:28
Wade
Work, this is where you get the.
00:33:03:28 - 00:33:04:08
Wade
Pre.
00:33:04:08 - 00:33:06:05
Wade
Midlife crisis.
00:33:06:07 - 00:33:06:15
Wade
some.
00:33:06:15 - 00:33:08:00
Wade
Would say it's the midlife crisis.
00:33:08:02 - 00:33:08:25
Wade
I think that.
00:33:09:02 - 00:33:09:24
Wade
We've had to.
00:33:09:24 - 00:33:13:15
Wade
Expend a extended a little bit beyond this. but at.
00:33:13:15 - 00:33:14:03
Wade
35.
00:33:14:03 - 00:33:15:04
Wade
You begin to say.
00:33:15:04 - 00:33:17:13
Wade
Is this it? And you start to get restless. So you're.
00:33:17:13 - 00:33:18:01
Wade
Looking at new.
00:33:18:01 - 00:33:18:13
Wade
Job.
00:33:18:13 - 00:33:23:13
Wade
Opportunities and this, I mean, I've done this, right. I'm like, what else can I do?
00:33:23:15 - 00:33:26:01
Wade
In some ways, that's how I, started.
00:33:26:01 - 00:33:31:20
Wade
Working as an instructor at Bama, you know? Yeah, because I was looking for new challenges.
00:33:31:20 - 00:33:32:21
Wade
Because what I was currently.
00:33:32:21 - 00:33:33:04
Wade
Doing.
00:33:33:08 - 00:33:33:14
Wade
Yeah.
00:33:33:19 - 00:33:36:06
Wade
Wasn't feeding the challenge. It doesn't mean that.
00:33:36:06 - 00:33:37:12
Wade
I was, like, the best.
00:33:37:12 - 00:33:37:18
Wade
In the.
00:33:37:18 - 00:33:38:19
Wade
World at what I.
00:33:38:19 - 00:33:40:25
Wade
Was doing. It just means that.
00:33:40:27 - 00:33:41:12
Wade
The.
00:33:41:12 - 00:33:44:05
Wade
Opportunity was no longer giving.
00:33:44:07 - 00:33:44:13
Wade
The.
00:33:44:13 - 00:33:47:09
Wade
Challenge that demanded such attention.
00:33:47:12 - 00:33:51:23
Evan
How did you recognize that?
00:33:51:25 - 00:33:52:11
Wade
probably not the.
00:33:52:11 - 00:33:55:23
Wade
Most healthy of ways. because I was like.
00:33:55:27 - 00:34:02:27
Evan
Yeah, awareness if I can. Sorry. I think the awareness of these things typically isn't going to always come upon a healthy discovery.
00:34:03:04 - 00:34:04:05
Wade
You know, we talked.
00:34:04:05 - 00:34:22:27
Evan
About the intensity provides a window at the beginning of this term where we see the intensity of something can provide a window into what's going on behind the scenes. And so a lot of the time, I think we have to be kind to ourselves a little bit, that sometimes we won't know that we're not regulating until we have intense experience.
00:34:22:27 - 00:34:24:01
Evan
Sorry. Continue.
00:34:24:03 - 00:34:25:04
Wade
No, it's a it's a great.
00:34:25:04 - 00:34:26:13
Wade
Point and I think to be.
00:34:26:13 - 00:34:27:21
Wade
Specific about it.
00:34:27:23 - 00:34:28:03
Wade
I felt.
00:34:28:03 - 00:34:29:05
Wade
Restless.
00:34:29:07 - 00:34:30:02
Wade
I wasn't in my.
00:34:30:02 - 00:34:31:17
Wade
Flow like your chart says.
00:34:31:17 - 00:34:32:29
Wade
I wasn't in my.
00:34:32:29 - 00:34:36:28
Wade
Flow and therefore I was bored.
00:34:37:00 - 00:34:38:21
Wade
And it it manifested.
00:34:38:21 - 00:34:38:29
Wade
As a.
00:34:38:29 - 00:34:42:18
Wade
Restlessness that made me short tempered with.
00:34:42:18 - 00:34:44:08
Wade
Others.
00:34:44:10 - 00:34:44:18
Wade
in a.
00:34:44:18 - 00:34:46:18
Wade
Way of like you, you.
00:34:46:18 - 00:34:49:05
Wade
Dummy. Like, I can do this mostly, like, come on.
00:34:49:05 - 00:34:49:18
Wade
Like you're.
00:34:49:18 - 00:34:50:21
Wade
Asking questions that.
00:34:50:21 - 00:34:52:01
Wade
Like, we.
00:34:52:03 - 00:34:53:27
Wade
It's a shortness. It's a curtain.
00:34:53:28 - 00:34:55:27
Wade
So I had to, like, gut check myself on it.
00:34:55:27 - 00:34:56:14
Wade
And it's like, okay.
00:34:56:14 - 00:34:57:15
Wade
What's really going.
00:34:57:15 - 00:34:59:04
Wade
On here? And I.
00:34:59:04 - 00:35:01:00
Wade
Realized I was bored.
00:35:01:02 - 00:35:05:28
Wade
and I was resenting my station in life, as.
00:35:05:28 - 00:35:07:08
Wade
A result of that.
00:35:08:10 - 00:35:08:25
Wade
So that I.
00:35:08:25 - 00:35:10:08
Wade
Couldn't be content. I couldn't.
00:35:10:09 - 00:35:11:25
Wade
Yeah, but I felt like I was.
00:35:11:25 - 00:35:15:19
Wade
Resigning to something. and so I had.
00:35:15:19 - 00:35:19:11
Wade
To re rethink all of that for myself.
00:35:19:14 - 00:35:19:20
Wade
but.
00:35:19:20 - 00:35:20:22
Wade
That was a big red.
00:35:20:22 - 00:35:22:17
Wade
Flag for me. Like, hey, this is not what.
00:35:22:18 - 00:35:25:27
Wade
We talked about. Recovering our lost selves. I was.
00:35:25:27 - 00:35:28:12
Wade
Losing myself.
00:35:28:15 - 00:35:33:14
Wade
and so to wake up to that, it's like, okay, how can I recover?
00:35:33:17 - 00:35:40:02
Wade
if my station and as far as my job or my, my point in life or whatever can't change, what can I supplement that.
00:35:40:02 - 00:35:41:16
Wade
With to allow.
00:35:41:16 - 00:35:48:01
Wade
The interest, the challenge, the intrigue that I'm currently missing. And that's that's what I did. and that's why.
00:35:48:01 - 00:35:48:29
Wade
We're here, I think.
00:35:49:01 - 00:36:15:00
Evan
Yeah, I think it is. So, so you recognized that through some adverse reactions to things that you felt like maybe you weren't within your true self, that you really needed to have some different challenge to pull your skill up to understand what that is. As we kind of start to wrap up this segment, to make it practical for folks, you're a big deal when it comes.
00:36:15:00 - 00:36:28:09
Evan
I am the victim and everything. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how understanding skill and challenge incorporate with the ways that you kind of set goals, how it helps you memorialize and keep track.
00:36:28:10 - 00:36:28:16
Wade
For.
00:36:28:17 - 00:36:32:10
Evan
Progress. and just kind of give us like a practical challenge as we close out.
00:36:32:11 - 00:36:34:03
Wade
Oh, this is this is huge, right?
00:36:34:03 - 00:36:34:18
Wade
I mean.
00:36:34:18 - 00:36:35:29
Wade
I operate off of.
00:36:35:29 - 00:36:38:05
Wade
Experience points and leveling up.
00:36:38:07 - 00:36:39:06
Wade
And so life.
00:36:39:06 - 00:36:39:26
Wade
Doesn't give.
00:36:39:26 - 00:36:40:04
Wade
Us.
00:36:40:04 - 00:36:45:10
Wade
Experience points and level up markers. So you create your own for yourself. for me personally.
00:36:45:10 - 00:36:50:23
Wade
I use a, a journal called the Full Focus Planner. it's great.
00:36:50:25 - 00:36:51:04
Wade
but.
00:36:51:04 - 00:36:52:14
Wade
It gives you.
00:36:52:17 - 00:36:53:06
Wade
90 day.
00:36:53:06 - 00:36:57:10
Wade
Goals. It gives you, like, weekly goals, or it helps you set.
00:36:57:10 - 00:36:58:06
Wade
90 day goals.
00:36:58:06 - 00:37:04:21
Wade
Weekly goals, and then three daily tasks to accomplish. You set those yourself.
00:37:04:21 - 00:37:05:05
Wade
And so for.
00:37:05:05 - 00:37:08:14
Wade
Me, it's like, did I accomplish these three tasks? How far.
00:37:08:14 - 00:37:09:16
Wade
Did I get on my weekly.
00:37:09:16 - 00:37:10:00
Wade
Task.
00:37:10:00 - 00:37:12:15
Wade
How far I am on my monthly and my my 90 day.
00:37:12:15 - 00:37:18:07
Wade
Tasks or goals? And that to me fuels just enough.
00:37:18:10 - 00:37:24:02
Wade
of a challenge, that keeps me from getting bored. And also keeps me focused on on point.
00:37:24:10 - 00:37:29:10
Wade
Because no matter how restless or bored I may be, I still have goals for my life. I still have.
00:37:29:13 - 00:37:34:04
Wade
overarching dreams that I want to accomplish. But if I'm just sitting and.
00:37:34:07 - 00:37:35:17
Wade
I use this phrase frequently, if I.
00:37:35:17 - 00:37:36:01
Wade
Sit in the.
00:37:36:01 - 00:37:36:20
Wade
Sun, if.
00:37:36:20 - 00:37:37:18
Wade
I sit in the, the.
00:37:37:18 - 00:37:38:18
Wade
Bad.
00:37:38:21 - 00:37:41:14
Wade
of of where I am, the restlessness that I'm never going to move.
00:37:41:14 - 00:37:41:28
Wade
Forward.
00:37:41:28 - 00:37:42:17
Wade
So what can I.
00:37:42:17 - 00:37:43:04
Wade
Do just.
00:37:43:04 - 00:37:45:14
Wade
Today, not worrying about next week or beyond? What can I do.
00:37:45:14 - 00:37:46:14
Wade
Today.
00:37:46:17 - 00:37:47:11
Wade
That's going to cater.
00:37:47:11 - 00:37:47:28
Wade
Toward.
00:37:47:28 - 00:37:48:07
Wade
My.
00:37:48:07 - 00:37:50:19
Wade
Future? I love that.
00:37:50:22 - 00:38:11:17
Evan
Let's take it down to its very basics. For someone who has a hard time setting goals in this season of their life, let's take that 90 day planner and put it into one page. One thing. How would you encourage somebody to get started with the goal setting? Like how would you set that goal? And then two, how would you celebrate and the importance of celebrating when you've accomplished it?
00:38:11:19 - 00:38:12:24
Wade
It's important to remember.
00:38:12:24 - 00:38:13:21
Wade
That your.
00:38:13:21 - 00:38:20:12
Wade
Destination is planned by your intention. but even more than your intention.
00:38:20:14 - 00:38:20:23
Wade
It is.
00:38:20:23 - 00:38:21:25
Wade
Determined.
00:38:21:25 - 00:38:23:04
Wade
By your direction.
00:38:23:04 - 00:38:23:27
Wade
And if you're not.
00:38:23:27 - 00:38:25:04
Wade
Daily directing.
00:38:25:04 - 00:38:25:17
Wade
Yourself.
00:38:25:17 - 00:38:25:26
Wade
Toward.
00:38:25:26 - 00:38:29:08
Wade
Your destination, or at least weekly or monthly or.
00:38:29:08 - 00:38:31:10
Wade
Whatever, if you don't have a concept of where that.
00:38:31:10 - 00:38:34:26
Wade
Destination is, you're never going to get there. Somebody wise once told me.
00:38:34:28 - 00:38:36:16
Wade
Unless you see it before you see.
00:38:36:16 - 00:38:37:16
Wade
It, you're never going to see it.
00:38:37:22 - 00:38:38:14
Wade
And so you've got to.
00:38:38:14 - 00:38:41:18
Wade
Have a vision of your destination where you want to go.
00:38:41:21 - 00:38:46:19
Wade
So what that means is permit where it is.
00:38:46:21 - 00:38:49:27
Wade
You want to be, where you want to go, and then try.
00:38:49:27 - 00:38:50:13
Wade
To set.
00:38:50:13 - 00:38:52:00
Wade
Some challenges, some goals.
00:38:52:00 - 00:38:52:08
Wade
For.
00:38:52:08 - 00:38:53:21
Wade
Yourself. Now here's the important thing.
00:38:53:21 - 00:38:57:11
Wade
I love the second part of your question. once you.
00:38:57:11 - 00:39:01:25
Wade
Find these tangible sort of things, apply to seven jobs.
00:39:01:25 - 00:39:03:13
Wade
This week or.
00:39:03:15 - 00:39:05:17
Wade
apply for grants if you're in research.
00:39:05:17 - 00:39:07:15
Wade
Or whatever it is, work out five.
00:39:07:15 - 00:39:11:00
Wade
Out of seven days, go on a 30 minute walk.
00:39:11:03 - 00:39:12:05
Wade
Celebrate that.
00:39:12:08 - 00:39:14:09
Wade
Now, if it's an exercise goal, I wouldn't say.
00:39:14:09 - 00:39:15:22
Wade
You know, go to an all you can eat.
00:39:15:22 - 00:39:16:07
Wade
Ice cream.
00:39:16:07 - 00:39:20:06
Wade
Buffet or something that's counterproductive to to that.
00:39:20:06 - 00:39:22:07
Evan
But celebrate it.
00:39:22:09 - 00:39:23:10
Wade
so for example, I've got a.
00:39:23:10 - 00:39:24:22
Wade
Goal right now that is writing a.
00:39:24:22 - 00:39:25:09
Wade
Chapter of a.
00:39:25:09 - 00:39:29:12
Wade
Book, and I know that I'm going to go out to a nice dinner, in an area.
00:39:29:12 - 00:39:30:23
Wade
City when.
00:39:30:23 - 00:39:33:16
Wade
I finish that with some friends, to.
00:39:33:16 - 00:39:33:29
Wade
Celebrate.
00:39:33:29 - 00:39:34:29
Wade
That. And I'm not going to.
00:39:34:29 - 00:39:36:29
Wade
Let myself do that before.
00:39:36:29 - 00:39:37:12
Wade
I finish.
00:39:37:12 - 00:39:40:11
Wade
That chapter of this book.
00:39:40:14 - 00:40:05:18
Evan
Perfect. That's great. Well, thanks for sharing that. as we kind of wrap up, I want to say thanks for listening to this segment. don't forget here that you do. You need to take a break. And when you hear that voice, you have some tools and skill sets that you could do to understand why you're feeling and experiencing the things that you're experiencing as to know when you aren't having fun anymore, and understanding the way that you like to be challenged.
00:40:05:21 - 00:40:07:10
Evan
See you next segment.
00:40:07:10 - 00:40:20:11
Evan
Ladies and gentlemen, it is that time in the episode where we take a break and get to know each other a little bit better. That would be our mini game. Stretch break. Wait, let's hit the music. Two. Three. Four.
00:40:20:13 - 00:40:23:01
Wade
Bump bump bump bump bump bump bump.
00:40:23:03 - 00:40:24:26
Evan
I caught up at the end there.
00:40:24:28 - 00:40:25:19
Wade
You sure did.
00:40:25:20 - 00:40:28:08
Evan
I. You know.
00:40:28:10 - 00:40:29:25
Wade
I feel like we're nailing it more and.
00:40:29:25 - 00:40:49:27
Evan
More as a musician. Knowing when to come back in is, you know, just as important. It's good, skillful playing. So, ladies and gentlemen, it is our mini game stretch break, where we take a break and stretch. And you should too. So wherever you're listening or watching this, just be. Be good to your body. Take a second stretch. Do a couple next stretches.
00:40:49:27 - 00:40:50:26
Evan
Do a little shoulder.
00:40:50:26 - 00:40:53:22
Wade
Roll like we did because I got a little thing on my shoulder today.
00:40:53:23 - 00:41:00:22
Evan
Yeah. Oh, yeah. We're gonna work it out. I tell you what I this is Apple fitness notifications from you, and you're just a fiend. You just start.
00:41:00:22 - 00:41:02:11
Wade
Over games before games.
00:41:02:11 - 00:41:04:12
Evan
I know. Hey, that's not the segment. That's segments at the end.
00:41:04:12 - 00:41:08:25
Wade
No, it's not, it's not. You get to rest before games sometimes if you've ever worked so.
00:41:08:28 - 00:41:20:22
Evan
Do an our mini game stretch break. That means we will consult our wonderful. As you can see on the screen. Bingo! Wheel of vulnerability. Did bingo. We lose vulnerable.
00:41:20:24 - 00:41:22:15
Wade
Betty.
00:41:22:17 - 00:41:31:07
Evan
Very good. so, there's numbers one through 50 in here. Wade has some geek therapy cards. Introduce the cards for everybody and give a shout out.
00:41:31:09 - 00:41:41:11
Wade
Geek therapy, geek therapeutics card deck. These are questions and practices to improve thoughts, build insight. Take action in your life and to de-stress.
00:41:41:11 - 00:41:55:08
Evan
Shout out there in the show notes. Check it out. Okay, so I'm going to spin this bingo wheel one through 50. Wade and I are each going to guess a number and listener viewer. We would encourage you to try and guess the number one through 50 and see if you get it right. And if you get it right, tell us in the comments.
00:41:55:08 - 00:42:01:13
Evan
Don't lie. All right. Ready?
00:42:01:15 - 00:42:05:23
Evan
Tell me when to stop. And we got to guess our numbers.
00:42:05:25 - 00:42:10:10
Wade
Yeah. 50. Oh, wow. The number of times I died and lives of pee last night.
00:42:10:10 - 00:42:21:10
Evan
Oh, dear. That was tough. Okay, I'm going to guess 1770. All right, here it is. It is 3838.
00:42:21:11 - 00:42:21:28
Wade
Got it.
00:42:21:28 - 00:42:37:07
Evan
So, listener, if you guessed 38, you win. So shout out 38 cards. And we learned a lesson in our last episode. We did where we interviewed where if we have a multiple question geek therapy card, we're just going to pick 1 or 2 of them and not answer a five parter.
00:42:37:09 - 00:42:40:24
Wade
Well, you're in luck. This one only has one question.
00:42:40:24 - 00:42:42:16
Evan
Okay, great. Hit us with.
00:42:42:18 - 00:42:56:14
Wade
This. the topic is movies and TV. Advanced space pioneers are usually forbidden from interfering with the problems of other civilizations due to the threat of changing the natural law and outcome of the species.
00:42:56:16 - 00:42:57:16
Evan
Keep going.
00:42:57:18 - 00:43:13:17
Wade
Name three times when it is better not to get involved with others. And how could that interference possibly make the problem worse? Okay, three times when it is better not to get involved with others, okay?
00:43:13:19 - 00:43:18:14
Evan
Three times it's better not to get involved with others, with others, okay?
00:43:18:15 - 00:43:23:24
Wade
Because it could potentially make the problem worse. Interference was.
00:43:23:27 - 00:43:29:04
Evan
Well, drowning.
00:43:29:06 - 00:43:30:24
Wade
you wouldn't say it's someone drowning.
00:43:30:28 - 00:43:36:17
Evan
Well, you're not supposed to get close. You're supposed to help in different ways. So,
00:43:36:19 - 00:43:38:00
Wade
Drowning.
00:43:38:03 - 00:43:55:23
Evan
You're supposed to throw something or keep because they'll latch on to you. and I experienced that, actually, with you when we were at Alabama and we had a student who didn't know how to swim, but didn't say that they didn't know how to swim. they were wearing a life jacket, and they launched off the blob, and they kind of.
00:43:55:23 - 00:44:11:06
Evan
They weren't sinking. They were fine. But I was wearing a life jacket. They were wearing a life jacket, and I swam to them. And I was like, hey, you're good. Like, let's get you over here. And they grabbed on to me and I, I swear to you, if we weren't both wearing life jackets, they would have drowning.
00:44:11:09 - 00:44:12:22
Wade
That is harrowing.
00:44:12:27 - 00:44:21:12
Evan
Whispers. You're supposed to keep them, you know, supposed to keep them at like them. For those of you who are listening and putting my arms out. So yeah, check. Like I'm training. But that's not an hour. But that was just the first one. You know, my.
00:44:21:12 - 00:44:27:09
Wade
Dad always told me that you're supposed to hit them hard enough to knock them out and then drag them to shore.
00:44:27:11 - 00:44:30:01
Evan
Yeah, I mean, if you're that strong, I don't know. I mean.
00:44:30:01 - 00:44:36:21
Wade
I don't know. That's why. That's why we work out so we can incapacitate somebody. The.
00:44:36:24 - 00:44:47:26
Evan
Can you imagine you're just at the gym working out, and then somebody is like, oh yeah, what are your goals? And I'm like, one shot. I need to be able to knock out a drowning person with one punch.
00:44:47:29 - 00:44:48:14
Wade
Don't call me a.
00:44:48:14 - 00:44:55:07
Evan
Hero, okay? Best not best not to get involved.
00:44:55:09 - 00:45:14:00
Wade
I have found when your friends plural or in a relate, romantic relationship and they're in a they're in a spat, like a fight or something like that. Just don't get involved. You can listen. Maybe they just don't.
00:45:14:02 - 00:45:31:12
Evan
Yeah, that's that's very true. I would say don't get involved in random tech support, especially over the phone. Like if you're if somebody needs help, like a family member called and they're like, hey, I can't figure this out on my phone. Like.
00:45:31:14 - 00:45:36:10
Wade
That's pretty good. That's yeah, you're going to get dragged into it. But yeah. Also.
00:45:36:12 - 00:46:02:05
Evan
here's a funny story. This is a good one. I would say don't get involved if you don't have the competence to actually help the problem. Like don't get involved just because you want to be helpful. I was at an electronics store with a friend picking up something for, a work project, and there was a great story, and there was a person who was looking at these racing wheels.
00:46:02:07 - 00:46:23:16
Evan
and they're like sim rig racing wheels. And they were speaking Portuguese to this, electronic store employee, and they were just they didn't really understand them or whatever. And I just like to be helpful. But I'm also an idiot, right. Like, I just don't I don't think I'm very stupid. And so I only know one phrase in Portuguese.
00:46:23:16 - 00:46:30:02
Evan
And it's because my roommate in college took Portuguese. So the only thing I know how to say is, do you speak Portuguese?
00:46:30:05 - 00:46:31:12
Wade
Oh no.
00:46:31:14 - 00:46:51:26
Evan
And so I am just like, I want to be helpful. And so I walk up and I say, this is Nick, who designed our graphics, one of his favorite stories. He was the one who was with me. And so I just say, I go for the Portuguese. Do you speak Portuguese? She then turns to me, thinking that she's been rescued by someone who's going to be able to actually help translate what's happening.
00:46:52:02 - 00:46:52:25
Wade
And then she.
00:46:52:25 - 00:47:18:05
Evan
Just goes off in Portuguese and I just look at her and I let her finish and I go, oh, I don't speak Portuguese. And Nick, it's like ducks around the aisle. So I would say, you know, don't just jump in to be helpful, just to be helpful. make sure that you have the actual competence to be able to assist with the problem and not just, wanting to feel helpful.
00:47:18:08 - 00:47:19:13
Evan
Do you think that counts?
00:47:19:15 - 00:47:27:00
Wade
I think that very much counts. That very much counts. I guess for a third one.
00:47:27:00 - 00:47:28:27
Evan
Yeah, for third one together.
00:47:29:00 - 00:47:33:18
Wade
The third one. you're not really on social media too much.
00:47:33:20 - 00:47:34:17
Evan
to be.
00:47:34:19 - 00:47:49:17
Wade
Yeah, it's probably better for you, but I found it to be incredibly unhelpful when on my for You page or suggested posts or whatever, there is some sort of crisis or dilemma that's being debated. And, I chime in.
00:47:49:20 - 00:47:51:23
Evan
Oh, you don't need to third party the comments.
00:47:51:26 - 00:48:08:23
Wade
I don't need the third party. The comments. Like that's something that's I'm potentially making it worse. And, yeah, just don't do it. Some things is just like, that's not that's not my problem. And I'm going to keep going.
00:48:08:25 - 00:48:27:08
Evan
Okay. So there you go listener. So there's a question that you can ask people, in your life, that you can connect with what is something that you just shouldn't get involved in? What's a bad idea of and things to get involved in? There's a little get to know your question around the lunch, dinner table, whatever table you find yourself in, you're only allowed to have conversations at tables.
00:48:27:08 - 00:48:27:17
Evan
Apparently.
00:48:27:17 - 00:48:33:29
Wade
You know what the problem is with the Twitter conversations. You can't knock them out and drag them to shore.
00:48:33:29 - 00:48:37:10
Evan
That's so true. That's so true. You can't that that would.
00:48:37:10 - 00:48:45:00
Wade
Solve so many problems. If I could just, like, choke, hold somebody and then drag their unconscious unconscious body to safety, let's.
00:48:45:03 - 00:48:54:04
Evan
Do Ellen's job for him. How much would you pay for that on Twitter if you knew that you could like, super like something and someone would come and physically restrain the person who was.
00:48:54:04 - 00:49:02:18
Wade
It would make Twitter Blue Premium worth it? I would say, I think that's $16 a month. I'd pay that.
00:49:02:20 - 00:49:06:16
Evan
Twitter blue, including private security.
00:49:06:18 - 00:49:11:23
Wade
No, no, no, just the ability to reach through the device and knock someone out.
00:49:11:25 - 00:49:12:17
Evan
Okay, so for the.
00:49:12:17 - 00:49:22:08
Wade
Purpose of like, but it's for the purpose of saving them. I don't want to injure them, but I like I'm dragging them out like a drowning victim because they're drowning in the comments.
00:49:22:08 - 00:49:28:11
Evan
I think you have to stop. You have to stop what you're doing is so much that I'm going to pay. You have to be able to rescue you through the screen like.
00:49:28:11 - 00:49:33:29
Wade
It's really, it's a benevolence sort of feature.
00:49:34:02 - 00:49:41:27
Evan
Well, now you know a little bit more about Wade and I from our mini game Stretch Break. Enjoy getting to know each other. Wade. Thanks. Under the next segment.
00:49:42:23 - 00:49:58:16
Evan
All right. Wait. Time to get into our next segment. We know that the things that we do for fun and our hobbies improve our mood and make us feel better. Right. I mean, you know, you said, oh, I just need a break. I need to go have some fun. I need to play some games. I need to blow off some steam.
00:49:58:18 - 00:50:07:20
Evan
But do you ever wonder why that is exactly? Or are you just satisfied with the results of your recreation?
00:50:07:22 - 00:50:10:07
Wade
You know, I I'm three days.
00:50:10:07 - 00:50:15:20
Wade
Away from going on my summer vacation right now, and this is kind of been on my my mind.
00:50:15:22 - 00:50:18:12
Wade
when I was younger, I guess I was just like, let me.
00:50:18:12 - 00:50:19:05
Wade
Do things.
00:50:19:12 - 00:50:20:23
Wade
That alleviate.
00:50:20:23 - 00:50:22:25
Wade
My, my mindset and all that kind of stuff.
00:50:22:25 - 00:50:23:17
Wade
But if you've ever.
00:50:23:17 - 00:50:26:27
Wade
Gone on vacation and you felt more.
00:50:27:00 - 00:50:27:21
Wade
Overwhelmed.
00:50:27:21 - 00:50:28:14
Wade
By the end of.
00:50:28:14 - 00:50:29:09
Wade
It.
00:50:29:11 - 00:50:34:11
Wade
And you're like, what happened? I was supposed to be rejuvenated, re-energized, all that kind of stuff.
00:50:34:15 - 00:50:35:02
Wade
You start to.
00:50:35:02 - 00:50:38:01
Wade
Think about, okay, how can I structure my vacation time a.
00:50:38:01 - 00:50:42:22
Wade
Little bit better moving forward? So yeah, I do think about this.
00:50:42:24 - 00:50:43:09
Wade
all that go.
00:50:43:09 - 00:50:49:21
Evan
On vacation and then come back unsatisfied. That sounds like it's a regular occurrence for you.
00:50:49:24 - 00:51:00:17
Wade
You know, sometimes I like vacations to be a little bit more active. Yeah. like, I like to go hiking or biking or whatever it is.
00:51:00:20 - 00:51:02:13
Wade
climbing, experiencing something new.
00:51:02:18 - 00:51:03:01
Wade
But I.
00:51:03:01 - 00:51:06:09
Wade
Tend to go on vacation occasionally with, members of my.
00:51:06:09 - 00:51:09:03
Wade
Family who would rather.
00:51:09:05 - 00:51:10:03
Wade
not.
00:51:10:06 - 00:51:10:21
Wade
Do those.
00:51:10:21 - 00:51:11:05
Wade
Things.
00:51:11:05 - 00:51:19:08
Wade
And so, like, if you're just sitting on a beach, listen. That's awesome. Yeah, for like a day or two. But I need a little bit of adventure.
00:51:19:08 - 00:51:21:21
Wade
And like, everybody around me and my family members, they're.
00:51:21:21 - 00:51:22:18
Wade
Like, I feel so.
00:51:22:18 - 00:51:25:06
Wade
Refreshed and relaxed and I'm like, I am antsy.
00:51:25:13 - 00:51:28:02
Wade
I got to get out of the house. I got to like, go do something.
00:51:28:02 - 00:51:29:22
Wade
And so that's what I'm talking about.
00:51:29:22 - 00:51:30:26
Wade
It just wasn't.
00:51:31:01 - 00:51:33:06
Wade
That same level of rejuvenation. I think.
00:51:33:06 - 00:51:34:00
Wade
That's.
00:51:34:02 - 00:51:35:20
Wade
You know, paying attention to how we're.
00:51:35:20 - 00:51:37:19
Wade
Hard wired differently.
00:51:37:21 - 00:51:39:03
Wade
from from each other in some ways.
00:51:39:03 - 00:51:44:14
Evan
So, yeah, you definitely have your more active folks. You have your I'll call them loungers.
00:51:44:16 - 00:51:47:07
Wade
Loungers. What a nice yeah thing to say.
00:51:47:07 - 00:52:11:07
Evan
Yeah. And then, you know, everybody has a balance in between. So if we're talking about vacation and the importance of feeling refreshed and regulating our mood, how do you think that pertains to video games and how can we think about video games as a little mini vacations to kind of help us do that? Well.
00:52:11:09 - 00:52:12:18
Wade
Yeah. So.
00:52:12:21 - 00:52:15:20
Wade
You know, it's July. It's going to be, you know, hot.
00:52:15:20 - 00:52:16:05
Wade
Weather for a.
00:52:16:05 - 00:52:21:05
Wade
Lot of North America, all that kind of stuff. We're thinking about getting away. We're thinking about relaxing.
00:52:21:07 - 00:52:26:18
Wade
Our traditional fall to spring schedule is interrupted.
00:52:26:20 - 00:52:29:11
Wade
to a degree, things are just a little bit slower in the summer. And so.
00:52:29:11 - 00:52:29:24
Wade
We're all.
00:52:29:24 - 00:52:31:08
Wade
Thinking about these kind of things.
00:52:31:08 - 00:52:36:14
Wade
But the reality is, is that not all of us are going to be able to go across the world to.
00:52:36:14 - 00:52:44:01
Wade
To some exotic destination. Now, we might be able to have some time off work and all that kind of stuff. The reason this is pertinent for.
00:52:44:01 - 00:52:46:18
Wade
This show is because.
00:52:46:18 - 00:52:47:16
Wade
Gaming.
00:52:47:17 - 00:52:49:00
Wade
Like a lot of hobbies.
00:52:49:00 - 00:52:54:16
Wade
Gaming can offer a window into a vacation that we might not ordinarily.
00:52:54:16 - 00:52:55:21
Wade
Afford. And we've.
00:52:55:21 - 00:53:00:23
Wade
Known this about gaming for years and years because anybody that plays any kind of game, especially.
00:53:00:23 - 00:53:01:03
Wade
A role.
00:53:01:03 - 00:53:02:01
Wade
Playing game, you.
00:53:02:01 - 00:53:03:13
Wade
Are transporting.
00:53:03:13 - 00:53:06:09
Wade
Yourself into another world, another.
00:53:06:09 - 00:53:07:12
Wade
Reality.
00:53:07:15 - 00:53:08:05
Wade
And there.
00:53:08:05 - 00:53:09:20
Wade
Are cognitive and.
00:53:09:20 - 00:53:10:09
Wade
Emotional.
00:53:10:09 - 00:53:12:25
Wade
Benefits to doing that.
00:53:12:28 - 00:53:16:26
Evan
Okay. So you're saying this is kind of like a deluxe staycation?
00:53:16:28 - 00:53:19:23
Wade
Oh, absolutely. It is. It's a deluxe staycation.
00:53:19:23 - 00:53:22:27
Wade
That you can enjoy from the comfort of your own home.
00:53:23:00 - 00:53:24:01
Wade
Right?
00:53:24:03 - 00:53:44:18
Evan
So if we're working off this idea that video games offer us the ability to engage in the kind of vacation that we normally couldn't afford, and I think when we talk about affords, sure, financially, but I think it's also an economy of time to, gaming can quickly get you into a new environment that you feel immersed and engaged in.
00:53:44:20 - 00:53:50:16
Evan
Is there some research or any writing that has explored this topic?
00:53:50:18 - 00:53:54:26
Wade
Yeah, I think that also when.
00:53:54:26 - 00:53:58:19
Wade
We think of vacations, we think of these multi-day.
00:53:58:21 - 00:54:00:10
Wade
week or multi week.
00:54:00:10 - 00:54:01:28
Wade
Even.
00:54:02:00 - 00:54:02:26
Wade
Trips or.
00:54:02:26 - 00:54:05:01
Wade
Experiences.
00:54:05:04 - 00:54:06:16
Wade
but I think that.
00:54:06:19 - 00:54:12:03
Wade
More often than not, when we think about gaming, we think of them as one and done sort of things. And so what.
00:54:12:03 - 00:54:13:16
Wade
I'd like to think about.
00:54:13:18 - 00:54:14:19
Wade
In this segment.
00:54:14:19 - 00:54:15:12
Wade
Is how.
00:54:15:12 - 00:54:19:09
Wade
Can a game be a mini vacation? And this is not something that.
00:54:19:09 - 00:54:20:00
Wade
I created.
00:54:20:00 - 00:54:21:09
Wade
In 2020.
00:54:21:12 - 00:54:28:02
Wade
There was a book released, by, edited by, Barbaros Boston.
00:54:28:04 - 00:54:28:26
Wade
the name of the book is.
00:54:28:26 - 00:54:29:09
Wade
Called a.
00:54:29:09 - 00:54:34:10
Wade
Game User Experience and Player Centered Design. Now, the entire book.
00:54:34:10 - 00:54:34:27
Wade
Is pretty.
00:54:34:27 - 00:54:35:04
Wade
Pretty.
00:54:35:04 - 00:54:36:01
Wade
Incredible.
00:54:36:03 - 00:54:37:04
Wade
But,
00:54:37:07 - 00:54:42:03
Wade
It's all research based. It's a series of research, some would be fodder for.
00:54:42:03 - 00:54:43:23
Wade
Dissertations, all that kind of stuff.
00:54:44:00 - 00:54:45:08
Wade
But the chapter that.
00:54:45:08 - 00:54:46:28
Wade
Really compelled me to think about.
00:54:46:28 - 00:54:48:12
Wade
This is chapter four of.
00:54:48:12 - 00:54:49:17
Wade
This book, and it's titled.
00:54:49:17 - 00:54:54:17
Wade
This just a great chapter title. It's called Four Pillars of Healthy.
00:54:54:17 - 00:54:56:24
Wade
Escapism in Games.
00:54:56:26 - 00:55:00:27
Wade
Four pillars. Yeah, four pillars of healthy escape.
00:55:00:27 - 00:55:01:27
Wade
Ism in games.
00:55:02:03 - 00:55:04:14
Wade
What we're ultimately talking about with video.
00:55:04:14 - 00:55:06:21
Wade
Gaming and how it is going to impact.
00:55:06:21 - 00:55:07:03
Wade
Our.
00:55:07:03 - 00:55:08:08
Wade
Well-Being and.
00:55:08:10 - 00:55:10:27
Wade
Offer those psychosocial benefits that we're.
00:55:10:27 - 00:55:13:05
Wade
Wanting. We're talking about.
00:55:13:05 - 00:55:15:04
Wade
Escapism. You know, escapism.
00:55:15:04 - 00:55:15:12
Wade
Gets.
00:55:15:12 - 00:55:19:08
Wade
A bad rap, right? Okay. Well, when we think about escapism.
00:55:19:14 - 00:55:23:02
Wade
We're thinking about ignoring life and escaping away.
00:55:23:02 - 00:55:28:29
Wade
To a fantasy reality. Right? we're we're we're ignoring responsibilities. We're removing ourselves.
00:55:29:05 - 00:55:29:24
Wade
From.
00:55:29:26 - 00:55:31:23
Wade
Whatever it is. Okay. But escapism.
00:55:31:23 - 00:55:32:08
Wade
Is not.
00:55:32:08 - 00:55:33:15
Wade
Necessarily.
00:55:33:15 - 00:55:36:03
Wade
Inherently a bad thing. there's.
00:55:36:03 - 00:55:36:21
Wade
There's healthy.
00:55:36:21 - 00:55:38:01
Wade
Escapism and there's unhealthy.
00:55:38:01 - 00:55:38:21
Wade
Escapism.
00:55:38:21 - 00:55:39:13
Wade
Too much of a.
00:55:39:18 - 00:55:40:00
Wade
A good.
00:55:40:00 - 00:55:40:27
Wade
Thing becomes a bad.
00:55:40:27 - 00:55:42:10
Wade
Thing, right?
00:55:42:12 - 00:55:44:05
Wade
And so.
00:55:44:07 - 00:55:45:28
Wade
That's why this chapter title, I think.
00:55:45:28 - 00:55:46:09
Wade
Is so good.
00:55:46:09 - 00:55:47:28
Wade
For pillars of healthy.
00:55:47:28 - 00:55:50:22
Wade
Escapism in games. and the.
00:55:50:22 - 00:55:56:00
Wade
Authors Mehmet Kosar and Ahmet us all, they and I.
00:55:56:01 - 00:55:57:12
Wade
Hope that I'm pronouncing those right.
00:55:57:12 - 00:55:58:15
Evan
We'll do our best.
00:55:58:18 - 00:56:00:06
Wade
Yeah, we do our best and forget the rest.
00:56:00:06 - 00:56:00:28
Wade
Right.
00:56:01:00 - 00:56:05:26
Wade
these this is a great essay, a great article or chapter.
00:56:05:26 - 00:56:08:23
Wade
On kind of offering some.
00:56:08:23 - 00:56:09:14
Wade
Areas.
00:56:09:14 - 00:56:14:17
Wade
That we can attend to in our gaming lives. but let me ask you, I mean.
00:56:14:24 - 00:56:16:23
Wade
Have you ever experienced.
00:56:16:23 - 00:56:17:27
Wade
A game where.
00:56:17:27 - 00:56:21:01
Wade
Your mood or your life felt.
00:56:21:01 - 00:56:22:09
Wade
Like it was more enriched.
00:56:22:09 - 00:56:24:10
Wade
As a result of that game?
00:56:24:12 - 00:56:52:19
Evan
Yeah, absolutely. I think. Both sides of that are true as well. Right? Like, I've experienced frustration in games and. Yeah. And wanted to, move to something a little cozier, but it makes me think about, like, challenge level. and just the immersion, like the kind of flows that you lose yourself in it. Yeah. You get into a really good game and you kind of lose track of time.
00:56:52:21 - 00:57:11:17
Evan
that's that's a way that's a marker that I know that I'm hitting on, that where I feel like I'm kind of transported, is that I look down and a lot of time has passed. Yeah, that happened to me not too long ago with the God of War. I was playing God of War Ragnarok, and I just sat there.
00:57:11:17 - 00:57:32:19
Evan
And then when I looked at the clock, it was no joke, like three hours later and I was just having a fantastic time, and I felt alert and engaged and re-energized and that game does a really good job of stewarding your time as well. So yeah, that's that's probably my most recent experience. What about for you.
00:57:32:22 - 00:57:34:07
Wade
The the game I go back.
00:57:34:07 - 00:57:40:23
Wade
To again and again. I think it was it was not just me. It was a worldwide phenomenon. Right. in 2020, Animal Crossing.
00:57:40:26 - 00:57:41:13
Evan
okay.
00:57:41:15 - 00:57:44:25
Wade
This was a much needed vacation in a.
00:57:44:25 - 00:57:45:23
Wade
World that.
00:57:45:23 - 00:57:48:10
Wade
Was falling apart. I mean, the pandemic.
00:57:48:19 - 00:57:52:00
Wade
Covid was in full swing, and,
00:57:52:02 - 00:57:55:08
Wade
I, I don't remember March, I guess, of that year.
00:57:55:10 - 00:57:59:26
Wade
as things were shutting down and there was all this uncertainty, animal crossing is.
00:57:59:26 - 00:58:01:21
Wade
Released and it gave.
00:58:01:21 - 00:58:03:08
Wade
Me and so many.
00:58:03:08 - 00:58:06:29
Wade
Others, a window to escape this weird.
00:58:06:29 - 00:58:07:20
Wade
Uncertainty of.
00:58:07:20 - 00:58:08:11
Wade
Reality, to.
00:58:08:11 - 00:58:11:12
Wade
Go and, plant crops and, make friends with.
00:58:11:12 - 00:58:12:28
Wade
A duck that keeps.
00:58:12:28 - 00:58:14:08
Wade
Drowning in the ocean.
00:58:14:08 - 00:58:16:23
Wade
After it did a lot of work, I did a lot of.
00:58:16:23 - 00:58:19:09
Wade
Fishing like I do in all games. you.
00:58:19:09 - 00:58:20:09
Evan
Love to fish in games.
00:58:20:09 - 00:58:20:21
Wade
I love.
00:58:20:21 - 00:58:22:13
Wade
Fishing. yeah.
00:58:22:17 - 00:58:35:05
Evan
Here's a question about your Animal Crossing pandemic experience. I remember that you held some sort of Easter service in. Oh my God. I wonder if you could speak to that for a minute.
00:58:35:05 - 00:58:35:17
Wade
Yeah.
00:58:35:17 - 00:58:37:21
Evan
So it's the ultimate escape.
00:58:37:23 - 00:58:39:00
Wade
Yeah. So a lot a lot.
00:58:39:00 - 00:58:39:15
Wade
Of people know.
00:58:39:15 - 00:58:40:25
Wade
That, you know, I've got a.
00:58:40:25 - 00:58:47:13
Wade
History and religious life and all that kind of stuff. And so, Easter Sunday morning comes up and,
00:58:47:15 - 00:58:49:00
Wade
I had this idea. I was like, let's.
00:58:49:00 - 00:58:49:27
Wade
Just host an Easter.
00:58:49:27 - 00:58:50:27
Wade
Service.
00:58:51:00 - 00:58:57:07
Wade
On my Animal Crossing island. So I invited some real life friends, and they showed up and it was amazing. You can actually find the.
00:58:57:07 - 00:58:57:24
Wade
Video.
00:58:57:24 - 00:59:00:29
Wade
Of this on my YouTube and watch it in its entirety.
00:59:01:05 - 00:59:02:25
Wade
It's ridiculous. But like, seven.
00:59:02:25 - 00:59:06:09
Wade
Friends and a waiting list. Yeah, showed.
00:59:06:09 - 00:59:08:01
Wade
Up because you could only have eight people.
00:59:08:01 - 00:59:12:03
Wade
On your island, including yourself. So many people showed up from real life.
00:59:12:06 - 00:59:20:03
Wade
Jesus showed up. Somebody cosplayed Jesus with a halo over his head. And like, they didn't tell anybody, didn't tell anybody that.
00:59:20:03 - 00:59:21:00
Wade
He was coming dressed.
00:59:21:00 - 00:59:23:26
Wade
Like Jesus. And so he gets out of the.
00:59:23:26 - 00:59:24:28
Wade
Plane and.
00:59:24:28 - 00:59:37:14
Wade
Comes to the island and everyone is like, he is risen! He is risen indeed. And there he is. He's with us. It was, it was it was incredible. So he comes in and but he sits on the front row. You. I was like, do you want to lead the service?
00:59:37:15 - 00:59:39:04
Wade
Jesus was like, nah, I'm good.
00:59:39:06 - 00:59:44:19
Wade
but we had like little, instruments all over the place, like, on my.
00:59:44:19 - 00:59:45:27
Wade
Island. It took me like a week.
00:59:45:27 - 00:59:46:18
Wade
But what else did.
00:59:46:18 - 00:59:48:00
Wade
We have going? We. It was a pandemic.
00:59:48:01 - 00:59:50:11
Wade
Yeah. I I crafted.
00:59:51:10 - 00:59:53:28
Wade
Pews made of, like, little.
00:59:54:01 - 00:59:55:00
Wade
tree benches.
00:59:55:00 - 00:59:57:20
Wade
Yeah, I made a pulpit. somebody somebody.
00:59:57:20 - 01:00:00:17
Wade
From another island shipped me.
01:00:00:20 - 01:00:01:24
Wade
like, exports.
01:00:01:24 - 01:00:07:08
Wade
From their island for instruments and sound systems and all this. So it was amazing.
01:00:07:08 - 01:00:08:16
Wade
It was an absolutely amazing job.
01:00:08:17 - 01:00:09:11
Evan
Contractor.
01:00:09:12 - 01:00:10:00
Wade
I run a.
01:00:10:05 - 01:00:12:02
Wade
Contractor from off island, but.
01:00:12:02 - 01:00:12:12
Wade
The.
01:00:12:12 - 01:00:13:09
Wade
Service happens.
01:00:13:09 - 01:00:18:09
Wade
Jesus shows up, we're all there. I give an order of the service where.
01:00:18:12 - 01:00:20:13
Wade
it's like, hey everybody, I want to welcome you. And especially.
01:00:20:13 - 01:00:21:15
Wade
You, Jesus, guest of.
01:00:21:15 - 01:00:21:28
Wade
Honor.
01:00:21:28 - 01:00:24:27
Wade
And we're, we're experiencing this.
01:00:24:27 - 01:00:26:09
Wade
So I'm, like, reading a few.
01:00:26:09 - 01:00:30:07
Wade
Liturgies that I found we have three, 2 or 3 songs.
01:00:30:10 - 01:00:34:03
Wade
And, like, the way you do it, an Animal Crossing is you can play something on the radio.
01:00:34:03 - 01:00:35:17
Wade
Or a record player.
01:00:35:19 - 01:00:40:04
Wade
and if you play an instrument while that music's playing an auto tunes to it.
01:00:40:07 - 01:00:47:27
Wade
Okay. So like, I've got a guitar, a piano, drums, everybody. It's like, okay, time for our first song. Everybody gets up off the pews.
01:00:47:29 - 01:00:50:02
Wade
And they go to their instruments, and then we're just.
01:00:50:02 - 01:00:52:16
Wade
Like, going for it. And then people that are.
01:00:52:16 - 01:00:53:13
Wade
Singing are.
01:00:53:13 - 01:01:02:09
Wade
Just furiously typing like, praise him or he is risen. And it's like, we got music and song. And in there were eight people because I.
01:01:02:11 - 01:01:03:16
Wade
In the waiting list, I had.
01:01:03:16 - 01:01:03:26
Wade
Other.
01:01:04:00 - 01:01:05:24
Evan
That's a full Animal Crossing Easter.
01:01:05:24 - 01:01:09:18
Wade
Service. That was a cap, and I had 3 or 4 people that were like.
01:01:09:18 - 01:01:15:00
Wade
Hey, can somebody leave? So we can come in and experience the resurrection? And I was like, no, sorry, you can't.
01:01:15:00 - 01:01:15:12
Wade
I wasn't even.
01:01:15:12 - 01:01:16:29
Wade
Streaming at this point back then.
01:01:17:01 - 01:01:18:07
Wade
So, one of.
01:01:18:07 - 01:01:19:09
Wade
The cool thing, I mean, I'll shut.
01:01:19:09 - 01:01:20:21
Wade
Up about this, shut.
01:01:20:21 - 01:01:21:05
Evan
Up about it.
01:01:21:05 - 01:01:23:08
Wade
It's amazing. You know how you know how in a.
01:01:23:08 - 01:01:25:21
Wade
Lot of religious services there will be like the.
01:01:25:21 - 01:01:27:05
Wade
The token candle.
01:01:27:05 - 01:01:27:24
Wade
That you like.
01:01:27:24 - 01:01:30:19
Wade
To signify the presence or the power of the divine.
01:01:30:21 - 01:01:31:11
Wade
Well, I had a tiki.
01:01:31:11 - 01:01:33:22
Wade
Torch and I said, let.
01:01:33:22 - 01:01:34:01
Wade
There be.
01:01:34:01 - 01:01:35:15
Wade
Light and let us welcome the.
01:01:35:15 - 01:01:41:18
Wade
Light of God into our hearts. And I lit the tiki torch. People were like, I did the.
01:01:41:19 - 01:01:42:15
Wade
Clapping emote.
01:01:42:15 - 01:01:42:29
Wade
And it was great.
01:01:43:04 - 01:01:43:29
Wade
And then at the end.
01:01:43:29 - 01:01:44:22
Wade
Of the service.
01:01:44:28 - 01:01:46:10
Wade
This was maybe my favorite.
01:01:46:10 - 01:01:47:05
Evan
Part.
01:01:47:07 - 01:01:47:12
Wade
I.
01:01:47:12 - 01:01:48:26
Wade
Said, and so today we remember.
01:01:48:26 - 01:01:51:08
Wade
We remember, he is risen.
01:01:51:12 - 01:01:52:15
Wade
We remember this.
01:01:52:15 - 01:01:53:06
Wade
I said, but.
01:01:53:06 - 01:01:54:28
Wade
Also remember.
01:01:55:00 - 01:01:56:06
Wade
Who you are.
01:01:56:08 - 01:01:58:08
Wade
And remember your baptism. And I took out.
01:01:58:08 - 01:02:01:23
Wade
A watering flower pail, and I doused everybody.
01:02:01:26 - 01:02:02:21
Wade
In,
01:02:02:23 - 01:02:10:00
Wade
With the water and people were again, like, even Jesus. I wish the quote of that.
01:02:10:00 - 01:02:13:28
Evan
Is so Jesus gets off the plane.
01:02:14:00 - 01:02:22:18
Wade
so Jesus gets off the block. It was a it was one of the best experiences. But again, it was this moment of vacation and reprieve.
01:02:22:20 - 01:02:25:11
Wade
In the midst of a time when we couldn't escape.
01:02:25:13 - 01:02:26:17
Wade
We couldn't escape the.
01:02:26:19 - 01:02:28:08
Wade
Dire nature of the pandemic.
01:02:28:08 - 01:02:29:16
Wade
And it was.
01:02:29:18 - 01:02:32:16
Wade
it was one of those mood altering moments for me.
01:02:32:16 - 01:02:34:09
Wade
That was just like.
01:02:34:11 - 01:02:35:06
Wade
Gaming.
01:02:35:06 - 01:02:36:24
Wade
Has elevated to another level.
01:02:37:00 - 01:02:46:13
Evan
That's amazing. Thank you for sharing and catching everyone. if you're if you're listening, on the podcast, if you can't see him, he's grinning ear to ear.
01:02:46:14 - 01:02:54:18
Wade
He I listen, your top ten moment of my life I think is so good I would stack it up against any religious service I've ever been to.
01:02:54:25 - 01:03:21:08
Evan
And you can check it out on the YouTube channel. So you probably make sure to include a link to that, in the description there. so Recentering us back on the research. I'm getting to, introduce the title, an organism that is a specter of that. So you said this, we're going to talk about video game vacation, four ways to ensure that gaming re-energize is you for ways to ensure that gaming re-energize is you.
01:03:21:08 - 01:03:25:02
Evan
I wonder if we could get started looking at some of those four categories. What are they.
01:03:25:04 - 01:03:26:20
Wade
Yeah. Khoza and we saw.
01:03:27:03 - 01:03:33:15
Wade
They, they specified four different pillars that are inherent.
01:03:33:15 - 01:03:34:19
Wade
In kind of game.
01:03:34:19 - 01:03:36:11
Wade
Related.
01:03:36:13 - 01:03:37:22
Wade
emotional well-being. And the.
01:03:37:22 - 01:03:38:24
Wade
First of those four.
01:03:38:24 - 01:03:41:18
Wade
Is emotional regulation. that.
01:03:41:25 - 01:03:42:19
Wade
Begs to be.
01:03:42:19 - 01:03:43:12
Wade
Defined a little bit.
01:03:43:12 - 01:03:44:17
Wade
Emotional regulation.
01:03:44:17 - 01:03:44:24
Wade
They.
01:03:44:24 - 01:03:45:19
Wade
Say, is.
01:03:45:19 - 01:03:48:02
Wade
Defined by the attempt of modifying the.
01:03:48:02 - 01:03:49:04
Wade
Trajectory.
01:03:49:08 - 01:03:51:12
Wade
Of one's emotions. Okay.
01:03:51:20 - 01:03:52:09
Wade
It is the.
01:03:52:09 - 01:03:54:06
Wade
Attempt of modifying the.
01:03:54:06 - 01:03:55:04
Wade
Trajectory.
01:03:55:08 - 01:03:57:08
Wade
Of one's emotions.
01:03:57:08 - 01:03:58:03
Wade
Okay. Right.
01:03:58:05 - 01:04:17:26
Evan
What does it mean to modify the tragic attempting. That's interesting. That says attempting to modify that. Yes. Your emotions. So if I was going to break this down, I have to first recognize that my emotions exist and have a trajectory. Determine what that trajectory is and then make an attempt to modify it is that how you would.
01:04:17:26 - 01:04:21:01
Wade
Yeah I think so. Trajectory. for a jRPG.
01:04:21:01 - 01:04:23:01
Wade
Fan out there under that, we've got some listeners.
01:04:23:01 - 01:04:24:08
Wade
There that it's the idea of.
01:04:24:08 - 01:04:28:17
Wade
Destiny and defying fate or defying destiny. You are on a.
01:04:28:17 - 01:04:30:04
Wade
Trajectory towards.
01:04:30:04 - 01:04:30:27
Wade
Sadness.
01:04:30:27 - 01:04:32:03
Wade
What does it look like.
01:04:32:03 - 01:04:32:20
Wade
To attempt to.
01:04:32:20 - 01:04:34:21
Wade
Modify that trajectory?
01:04:34:21 - 01:04:37:04
Wade
And this is something that games can do.
01:04:37:04 - 01:04:38:11
Wade
According to the research.
01:04:38:11 - 01:04:39:12
Wade
That's not my opinion.
01:04:39:12 - 01:04:41:25
Wade
This is actual research that says that.
01:04:41:25 - 01:04:43:22
Wade
We can make an attempt.
01:04:43:27 - 01:04:45:03
Wade
To defy.
01:04:45:07 - 01:04:46:04
Wade
Destiny.
01:04:46:04 - 01:04:47:01
Wade
The trajectory.
01:04:47:01 - 01:04:48:08
Wade
Of our emotions.
01:04:48:11 - 01:04:48:26
Wade
Through the.
01:04:48:26 - 01:04:50:11
Wade
Agency offered in games.
01:04:50:11 - 01:04:51:03
Wade
Pretty cool stuff.
01:04:51:07 - 01:04:52:20
Evan
That's an empowering statement.
01:04:52:20 - 01:04:53:11
Wade
But yeah, I.
01:04:53:11 - 01:05:09:02
Evan
Wonder what the next step in application is for that. If we talk about how we want to take the things that we experience and play and then games and use it to test and improve on some things in our lives that aren't present on the screen or the page.
01:05:09:02 - 01:05:14:04
Wade
What would that look? Yeah, fantasy imitates reality. And in the same ways.
01:05:14:06 - 01:05:19:14
Wade
Practice is a form of fantasy. Practice makes perfect. And so as you are.
01:05:19:14 - 01:05:21:18
Wade
Living in to something, even in.
01:05:21:18 - 01:05:22:12
Wade
Practice.
01:05:22:18 - 01:05:24:01
Wade
When it's game time.
01:05:24:01 - 01:05:25:02
Wade
Your real life.
01:05:25:09 - 01:05:26:24
Wade
You're going to be able to implement those things.
01:05:26:24 - 01:05:31:03
Wade
So here's what the research also says, that there's a platform for emotional.
01:05:31:03 - 01:05:33:00
Wade
Regulation in games to take.
01:05:33:00 - 01:05:35:06
Wade
Place as games are vast.
01:05:35:06 - 01:05:36:18
Wade
Playground for players.
01:05:36:18 - 01:05:37:14
Wade
To select.
01:05:37:14 - 01:05:39:16
Wade
And modify situations to their.
01:05:39:16 - 01:05:43:08
Wade
Liking. Games are also effective for distraction.
01:05:43:08 - 01:05:48:27
Wade
Providing temporary disengagement from negative and undesirable emotions, emotions that.
01:05:48:27 - 01:05:50:15
Wade
Are likely accrued.
01:05:50:17 - 01:05:53:12
Wade
And accumulated in the real world. And so.
01:05:53:12 - 01:05:54:01
Wade
You get a.
01:05:54:01 - 01:05:55:13
Wade
Playground where.
01:05:55:13 - 01:05:58:05
Wade
You can test, where you can practice, where you.
01:05:58:05 - 01:06:00:11
Wade
Can, create a new.
01:06:00:11 - 01:06:03:21
Wade
Reality in this safe zone of a, of.
01:06:03:21 - 01:06:06:04
Wade
A game space, to, to.
01:06:06:06 - 01:06:07:16
Wade
Redirect your life.
01:06:07:20 - 01:06:08:10
Wade
In your real.
01:06:08:10 - 01:06:09:19
Wade
World. So.
01:06:09:21 - 01:06:12:16
Wade
For instance, if something's not to your liking in the game.
01:06:12:16 - 01:06:13:23
Wade
Your problem.
01:06:13:23 - 01:06:16:08
Wade
Solving in real time to manipulate it.
01:06:16:08 - 01:06:17:08
Wade
Into.
01:06:17:09 - 01:06:18:23
Wade
Something that's more pleasing to.
01:06:18:23 - 01:06:21:09
Wade
You, that skill set is.
01:06:21:09 - 01:06:22:07
Wade
A transferable.
01:06:22:07 - 01:06:24:19
Wade
Skills that you will begin to regulate.
01:06:24:21 - 01:06:25:08
Wade
In.
01:06:25:08 - 01:06:25:18
Wade
Your.
01:06:25:18 - 01:06:27:00
Wade
Actual emotional world.
01:06:27:00 - 01:06:27:12
Wade
Outside.
01:06:27:12 - 01:06:28:13
Wade
Of the game. Does that make sense?
01:06:28:18 - 01:06:50:14
Evan
It does. It does. they use the language like negative emotions. I have been told that there's no such thing as negative emotions in the way that they're thinking about how we understand them. there's just emotions that we assign negative feelings, thoughts that emotions just are. They aren't good. They aren't bad. We have to acknowledge that they just exist.
01:06:50:16 - 01:07:04:09
Evan
And then when we acknowledge that they just exist, we can accept them and be able to actually engage with them. and so do you think that that plays into, like, the emotions that are typically perceived as negative? Would you.
01:07:04:09 - 01:07:05:28
Wade
Yeah, I think that's a good qualifier.
01:07:05:29 - 01:07:06:07
Wade
You know.
01:07:06:07 - 01:07:07:14
Wade
It's the the.
01:07:07:14 - 01:07:11:13
Wade
Emotion that is causing a negative reaction within you. Yeah.
01:07:11:13 - 01:07:14:20
Wade
So we we know that sadness.
01:07:14:23 - 01:07:19:03
Wade
has an important piece. I mean, if you've seen Inside Out one.
01:07:19:05 - 01:07:20:29
Wade
you know, sadness has a role.
01:07:20:29 - 01:07:22:21
Wade
You can't just dismiss it.
01:07:22:24 - 01:07:31:21
Wade
But is, right. But is there, is there a way to.
01:07:31:23 - 01:07:37:11
Wade
Identify the emotion in you that is creating a negative response? And can you.
01:07:37:11 - 01:07:38:27
Wade
Redirect that.
01:07:38:29 - 01:07:39:12
Wade
In a.
01:07:39:12 - 01:07:42:07
Wade
Healthier or proper, space?
01:07:42:07 - 01:07:47:19
Evan
Yeah. And we can use games in play to be able to have a safe place to practice that. Okay.
01:07:47:20 - 01:07:48:19
Wade
Now this is this is.
01:07:48:19 - 01:07:50:06
Wade
Something that I do want to add.
01:07:50:06 - 01:07:51:00
Wade
That the research.
01:07:51:04 - 01:07:52:06
Wade
Mentions. And we.
01:07:52:06 - 01:07:53:18
Wade
Could talk for days about.
01:07:53:18 - 01:07:54:07
Wade
This one.
01:07:54:10 - 01:07:54:28
Wade
But it says.
01:07:54:28 - 01:07:56:10
Wade
That initial findings.
01:07:56:10 - 01:07:59:20
Wade
Also show this is so cool that regular or frequent.
01:07:59:20 - 01:08:02:05
Wade
Gamers use emotional regulation.
01:08:02:05 - 01:08:03:20
Wade
Strategies better.
01:08:03:26 - 01:08:06:28
Wade
Than your regular or infrequent gamers.
01:08:06:28 - 01:08:10:24
Wade
How cool is that? So if you are.
01:08:10:24 - 01:08:11:22
Wade
A more frequent.
01:08:11:28 - 01:08:12:26
Wade
Regular.
01:08:12:26 - 01:08:13:26
Wade
Gamer.
01:08:13:28 - 01:08:14:12
Wade
You are.
01:08:14:12 - 01:08:21:27
Wade
Developing emotional regulation strategies and able to employ those things better than if you were an infrequent.
01:08:21:27 - 01:08:27:14
Wade
Gamer. So if you're a hardcore gamer, guess what? You're there's good news for your emotional regulation.
01:08:27:16 - 01:08:51:00
Evan
And you've probably been doing it subconsciously. And so this is really thinking intentionally about pulling that out of our subconscious and making it something that we can kind of memorialize and live into, which is, I think, goes into some of the aspects of a vacation, right? Vacation. You take a lot of pictures, you're in a new environment. You're more receptive to new changes, you're more aware of your surroundings, those kinds of things.
01:08:51:00 - 01:09:03:15
Evan
I mean, there's special things that you do just on vacation, and there's a reason that things stick out and we make more memories typically when we're on vacation, because we do that. And so video games helped transport us to that. What's our next category?
01:09:03:18 - 01:09:10:05
Wade
Mood management. Mood management. so mood management think more in terms.
01:09:10:05 - 01:09:16:10
Wade
Of, think more in terms of a bit more of a.
01:09:16:10 - 01:09:22:12
Wade
Long term sort of thing. If emotional management is moment to moment, mood management is more.
01:09:22:12 - 01:09:22:28
Wade
About your.
01:09:22:28 - 01:09:25:23
Wade
Long term, emotional.
01:09:25:23 - 01:09:26:10
Wade
State.
01:09:26:11 - 01:09:26:19
Evan
Okay.
01:09:26:19 - 01:09:32:09
Wade
So the art and art for example. So again, your your emotions.
01:09:32:09 - 01:09:33:07
Wade
In the moment.
01:09:33:10 - 01:09:34:24
Wade
Set a trajectory.
01:09:34:24 - 01:09:35:26
Wade
For an overarching.
01:09:35:26 - 01:09:36:09
Wade
Mood.
01:09:36:15 - 01:09:39:07
Wade
That's, that's important to know okay.
01:09:39:10 - 01:09:42:28
Evan
So it set the arc of the trajectory for your overall mood.
01:09:42:28 - 01:09:43:29
Wade
For your overall.
01:09:43:29 - 01:09:44:13
Wade
Mood.
01:09:44:15 - 01:09:47:01
Wade
Okay. So let me read a little bit of the research here.
01:09:47:01 - 01:09:47:15
Wade
I think this is.
01:09:47:15 - 01:09:51:19
Wade
Really, really cool. the research shows.
01:09:51:19 - 01:09:54:18
Wade
That games provide a useful medium for this mood management.
01:09:54:18 - 01:09:55:10
Wade
For instance.
01:09:55:14 - 01:09:57:26
Wade
Playing violent or nonviolent games.
01:09:58:01 - 01:09:59:24
Wade
Helps reduce hostility.
01:09:59:24 - 01:10:00:16
Wade
And enhance.
01:10:00:19 - 01:10:02:09
Wade
Positive effects.
01:10:02:12 - 01:10:04:00
Wade
However, understanding which.
01:10:04:00 - 01:10:04:20
Wade
Aspects.
01:10:04:20 - 01:10:05:28
Wade
Of games makes them more.
01:10:05:28 - 01:10:06:15
Wade
Effective.
01:10:06:15 - 01:10:07:22
Wade
For mood management is.
01:10:07:22 - 01:10:12:18
Wade
Important. Vigorous experiments show that the player.
01:10:12:18 - 01:10:14:29
Wade
Agency increases in a game.
01:10:15:02 - 01:10:15:24
Wade
Mood of the.
01:10:15:24 - 01:10:17:19
Wade
Board, and stressed individuals tend to.
01:10:17:19 - 01:10:19:12
Wade
Improve as well.
01:10:19:14 - 01:10:20:28
Wade
And players prefer medium.
01:10:20:28 - 01:10:22:17
Wade
Level tasks rather.
01:10:22:17 - 01:10:23:03
Wade
Than low.
01:10:23:03 - 01:10:24:08
Wade
Or high
01:10:24:11 - 01:10:25:07
Wade
Task demand.
01:10:25:14 - 01:10:25:27
Wade
I think that's.
01:10:25:27 - 01:10:26:22
Wade
Kind of interesting.
01:10:26:22 - 01:10:28:18
Wade
Because it's the idea of.
01:10:28:20 - 01:10:29:24
Wade
there's a fulfillment.
01:10:29:24 - 01:10:30:26
Wade
Piece.
01:10:30:29 - 01:10:31:06
Wade
that.
01:10:31:06 - 01:10:32:26
Wade
Is, generally.
01:10:32:26 - 01:10:34:09
Wade
Helping not only that.
01:10:34:09 - 01:10:39:15
Wade
Trajectory, but that overall emotional state that you are, that you are in.
01:10:39:17 - 01:10:51:19
Evan
It talked about two different types of tasks towards the end there. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about what that means. Like I think it said medium task. This is.
01:10:51:21 - 01:10:53:01
Wade
Something that's cripplingly.
01:10:53:05 - 01:10:54:19
Wade
Difficult or.
01:10:54:19 - 01:10:56:16
Wade
Something that is mindlessly.
01:10:56:16 - 01:10:57:22
Wade
Easy. So there's.
01:10:57:22 - 01:10:59:15
Wade
Something with medium level.
01:10:59:15 - 01:11:02:12
Wade
Engagement, right? This is.
01:11:03:22 - 01:11:04:23
Wade
For all of our developer.
01:11:04:23 - 01:11:05:15
Wade
Friends out.
01:11:05:15 - 01:11:10:17
Wade
There. This is the key to side quests. Okay, okay, I fetch questing.
01:11:10:18 - 01:11:11:15
Wade
Cutting it, and there's.
01:11:11:15 - 01:11:12:02
Wade
There's.
01:11:12:04 - 01:11:13:02
Wade
Science backed.
01:11:13:02 - 01:11:16:01
Wade
Research as to why it doesn't cut it.
01:11:16:03 - 01:11:19:20
Wade
Because it's not challenging enough. Now, if it's too challenging, you've missed the mark.
01:11:19:27 - 01:11:21:14
Wade
But right there, there's a sweet.
01:11:21:14 - 01:11:22:18
Wade
Spot in the middle. And that.
01:11:22:18 - 01:11:24:03
Wade
Is the the task of every.
01:11:24:03 - 01:11:24:12
Wade
Game.
01:11:24:12 - 01:11:34:05
Evan
Dev, do you think your perfect torturous side quest would be an escort quest with bad pathing? I combined with the fetch quest.
01:11:34:08 - 01:11:43:12
Wade
Yeah, and like, they're painfully slow or or this is worse. This is worse when the escort quest, giver moves.
01:11:43:19 - 01:11:45:16
Wade
Slower than your run speed.
01:11:45:16 - 01:11:45:21
Wade
But.
01:11:45:21 - 01:11:47:01
Wade
Faster than your walk.
01:11:47:01 - 01:11:51:01
Wade
Speed. Like it doesn't match your speed at all. It's like.
01:11:51:03 - 01:11:52:09
Wade
And you're, like, having a slight.
01:11:52:09 - 01:11:53:14
Wade
Seizure following.
01:11:53:14 - 01:11:54:00
Wade
Behind them.
01:11:54:01 - 01:11:55:04
Wade
And it is the worst.
01:11:55:05 - 01:12:03:11
Evan
And I love it when they always add in, like a voice line or an animation. When you bump into them or try to go past them where they're like.
01:12:03:13 - 01:12:08:00
Wade
Hey, hey, why are in such a hurry?
01:12:08:02 - 01:12:10:07
Evan
what? And it's the same three voice lines.
01:12:10:11 - 01:12:15:17
Wade
Where's the fire bulb? I don't think anyone's ever said that, but the.
01:12:15:18 - 01:12:19:02
Evan
Classic sign twice. Voice sign. Where's the fire bulb?
01:12:19:06 - 01:12:20:05
Wade
Bulb?
01:12:20:07 - 01:12:24:09
Evan
You got it here. Okay, so, what's our next to it?
01:12:24:12 - 01:12:26:00
Wade
Next one is coping.
01:12:26:03 - 01:12:30:12
Wade
coping. video games as a coping mechanism.
01:12:30:12 - 01:12:33:21
Wade
So, a little bit of the research,
01:12:33:23 - 01:12:35:03
Wade
Reading straight from their chapter.
01:12:35:03 - 01:12:36:27
Wade
First is problem focused.
01:12:36:27 - 01:12:39:03
Wade
Coping, where the individual attempts to.
01:12:39:03 - 01:12:40:02
Wade
Directly solve.
01:12:40:02 - 01:12:41:27
Wade
A problem at hand that is causing.
01:12:41:27 - 01:12:42:14
Wade
Stress.
01:12:42:14 - 01:12:45:02
Wade
Such as getting organized, managing time.
01:12:45:04 - 01:12:47:14
Wade
Obtaining active support to solve a problem.
01:12:47:15 - 01:12:48:21
Wade
Okay, that's.
01:12:48:21 - 01:12:49:17
Wade
The first type of.
01:12:49:17 - 01:12:53:24
Wade
Coping. The second type of coping is an emotion focused coping where the individual.
01:12:53:24 - 01:12:55:13
Wade
Decreases stress by.
01:12:55:13 - 01:12:58:02
Wade
Regulating their feeling of the problem, such as by.
01:12:58:02 - 01:13:02:08
Wade
Distraction with pleasurable, activities,
01:13:02:10 - 01:13:04:04
Wade
Relaxation or talking to a friend.
01:13:04:06 - 01:13:12:02
Evan
Okay, let's define coping. just like from the outset and then break that down into the two types. So coping.
01:13:12:02 - 01:13:15:19
Wade
Yeah. Well a coping I would say is how.
01:13:15:19 - 01:13:17:00
Wade
You are handling or dealing.
01:13:17:00 - 01:13:18:16
Wade
With.
01:13:18:19 - 01:13:28:21
Wade
the negative experiences or emotions of the world around you. Okay. So it can be stress. Stress can be good, but if it's negative then you've got to find a way of coping with that.
01:13:28:24 - 01:13:30:28
Wade
And what games allow us to do is.
01:13:30:28 - 01:13:33:00
Wade
Either, you know, again that playground of.
01:13:33:00 - 01:13:35:16
Wade
Activity of.
01:13:35:18 - 01:13:37:14
Wade
you know, alleviating some of that stress.
01:13:37:14 - 01:13:39:04
Wade
Or distraction.
01:13:39:04 - 01:13:40:12
Wade
With something that is.
01:13:40:12 - 01:13:41:10
Wade
Completely.
01:13:41:13 - 01:13:44:06
Wade
Unrelated, offering.
01:13:44:08 - 01:13:44:29
Wade
pleasure or.
01:13:44:29 - 01:13:46:08
Wade
Relaxation or.
01:13:46:08 - 01:13:48:15
Wade
Socio, social.
01:13:48:18 - 01:13:50:09
Wade
interaction with someone.
01:13:50:09 - 01:13:50:20
Wade
Else.
01:13:50:23 - 01:14:06:16
Evan
So because something's happened in the world around me and for me to cope to it, I have to understand what my internal reality is and match it. Or at least accept what the external reality of the circumstances that yeah, fits with coping. Okay, so my.
01:14:06:22 - 01:14:08:05
Wade
Well and a.
01:14:08:05 - 01:14:10:05
Wade
Study found that the coping which was.
01:14:10:05 - 01:14:13:01
Wade
Characterized by the like cumulative experience.
01:14:13:01 - 01:14:13:15
Wade
Of forgetting.
01:14:13:15 - 01:14:13:27
Wade
Daily.
01:14:13:27 - 01:14:14:21
Wade
Problems.
01:14:14:21 - 01:14:15:15
Wade
Or hassles.
01:14:15:15 - 01:14:17:29
Wade
Or unpleasant feelings by escaping real.
01:14:17:29 - 01:14:20:08
Wade
Life, and all that when you.
01:14:20:08 - 01:14:21:10
Wade
Channel that into.
01:14:21:10 - 01:14:22:00
Wade
Pleasurable.
01:14:22:00 - 01:14:24:07
Wade
Experiences. this.
01:14:24:07 - 01:14:25:16
Wade
This is one of the ways that.
01:14:25:16 - 01:14:28:15
Wade
Major, games.
01:14:28:15 - 01:14:30:02
Wade
Motivate players.
01:14:30:02 - 01:14:32:09
Wade
And help them cope in their real.
01:14:32:09 - 01:14:37:14
Wade
Lives. Right? So it's kind of that idea of there's.
01:14:37:14 - 01:14:39:16
Wade
Something going on in my life I need to turn.
01:14:39:16 - 01:14:40:13
Wade
Off for a.
01:14:40:13 - 01:14:42:16
Wade
While, and some of us go to video games.
01:14:42:16 - 01:14:44:14
Wade
To do that. But while we.
01:14:44:14 - 01:14:45:10
Wade
Are gaming.
01:14:45:11 - 01:14:46:17
Wade
We're actively.
01:14:46:18 - 01:14:48:11
Wade
Coping with what's going on in the.
01:14:48:11 - 01:14:50:05
Wade
World. It's similar to sleep.
01:14:50:07 - 01:14:51:14
Wade
When sometimes you just.
01:14:51:15 - 01:14:53:28
Wade
You go to sleep really stressed or there's.
01:14:53:28 - 01:14:54:21
Wade
A lot on your mind.
01:14:54:27 - 01:15:00:22
Wade
You wake up and you feel a little bit rejuvenated. The heart, the bed seat, the, of your.
01:15:00:22 - 01:15:02:09
Wade
Emotions begins to.
01:15:02:09 - 01:15:03:21
Wade
Heal while you are.
01:15:03:21 - 01:15:07:21
Wade
Sleeping. It's it's a coping mechanism. Gaming can do the same thing.
01:15:07:27 - 01:15:15:27
Evan
Okay, so there were two types. There was problem focused coping and emotion focused coping. Let's discuss more about the difference between the two.
01:15:15:29 - 01:15:16:23
Wade
Yeah. So an.
01:15:16:23 - 01:15:18:00
Wade
Activity.
01:15:18:03 - 01:15:19:28
Wade
game play. game based play.
01:15:19:28 - 01:15:22:09
Wade
Right. Where you are able to.
01:15:22:11 - 01:15:23:15
Wade
address a similar.
01:15:23:15 - 01:15:24:29
Wade
Problem.
01:15:25:01 - 01:15:25:25
Wade
in a game.
01:15:25:25 - 01:15:28:02
Wade
And solve it. That's a way of coping.
01:15:28:04 - 01:15:33:27
Wade
I can control things in a game that I can't control in real life. Therefore I'm coping with.
01:15:33:27 - 01:15:35:02
Wade
It through.
01:15:35:02 - 01:15:37:18
Wade
Again, this playground sandbox.
01:15:37:18 - 01:15:38:10
Wade
Sort of world.
01:15:38:15 - 01:15:41:07
Wade
The second thing is to focus on something that is.
01:15:41:07 - 01:15:42:08
Wade
Unrelatable.
01:15:42:14 - 01:15:43:05
Wade
unrelated.
01:15:43:05 - 01:15:43:13
Wade
To.
01:15:43:13 - 01:15:44:26
Wade
The negative experience.
01:15:45:00 - 01:15:47:07
Wade
But pleasurable. It's a distraction.
01:15:47:09 - 01:16:07:21
Evan
Okay, so video games are actively building a skill set within us to cope. And we can, when we understand it and pay attention to it, we can actually grow it in our personal lives, too. It's not like we have to sit down and say, I'm going to play this video game and learn how to cope. What we want to do is have an awareness that it's happening in the background and be able to take charge of it.
01:16:07:22 - 01:16:08:20
Evan
Is that where we're headed here?
01:16:08:25 - 01:16:10:21
Wade
Yeah, that's exactly right.
01:16:10:24 - 01:16:12:09
Wade
I mean.
01:16:12:12 - 01:16:14:09
Wade
This this gives you.
01:16:14:09 - 01:16:16:21
Wade
Permission. It's a license to say.
01:16:16:23 - 01:16:17:21
Wade
Hey.
01:16:17:24 - 01:16:27:05
Wade
I'm doing some self care through gaming. It's not a mindless activity. This is not a time waste. I'm actually healing in some ways.
01:16:27:07 - 01:16:27:16
Wade
Which is.
01:16:27:16 - 01:16:29:23
Evan
Healing. I think that probably brings us to our final topic.
01:16:29:24 - 01:16:32:22
Wade
Yeah. Is recovery. Recovery.
01:16:32:22 - 01:16:34:11
Wade
So this is when people.
01:16:34:11 - 01:16:34:23
Wade
Play.
01:16:34:23 - 01:16:35:29
Wade
Games to escape from their.
01:16:35:29 - 01:16:41:26
Wade
Daily stresses, usually associated with work or chores. This is why.
01:16:41:26 - 01:16:43:11
Wade
When you finish a long.
01:16:43:11 - 01:16:44:24
Wade
Day of work or school, it's.
01:16:44:24 - 01:16:49:14
Wade
Like, I just want to decompress. Yeah, with some games, it's not about coping with things.
01:16:49:20 - 01:16:50:06
Wade
But it's about.
01:16:50:06 - 01:16:52:18
Wade
Regaining re-energizing to some.
01:16:52:18 - 01:16:54:00
Wade
Degree.
01:16:54:03 - 01:16:54:29
Wade
getting back some of that.
01:16:54:29 - 01:17:04:18
Wade
Energy in your life. this is this is, this kind of escapism, the research says, relieves stress via.
01:17:04:18 - 01:17:04:23
Wade
An.
01:17:04:23 - 01:17:06:08
Wade
Activity that.
01:17:06:08 - 01:17:07:11
Wade
Is, you know, a.
01:17:07:11 - 01:17:08:01
Wade
Broader.
01:17:08:01 - 01:17:13:04
Wade
System of recovery. And it's about recovering yourself. It's recovering that energy.
01:17:13:04 - 01:17:14:24
Wade
Recovering that that.
01:17:14:24 - 01:17:22:26
Wade
Motivation in life. it can be defined as recuperation from cognitive or emotional exhaustion.
01:17:22:27 - 01:17:26:24
Wade
Yeah. So if you are exhausted, if you're.
01:17:26:24 - 01:17:27:26
Wade
Exhausted from the.
01:17:27:26 - 01:17:33:21
Wade
Tasks of life or school or work or whatever, you can recover this through.
01:17:33:23 - 01:17:34:15
Wade
Gaming.
01:17:34:15 - 01:17:35:17
Wade
And this is this is.
01:17:35:17 - 01:17:36:03
Wade
Again.
01:17:36:03 - 01:17:41:10
Wade
Research backed. This is great stuff.
01:17:41:13 - 01:17:58:21
Evan
When we talk about recovering in general, typically we talk about recovering from something. Right. Like I'm recovering from my work day, I'm recovering from my flight, I'm recovering from an illness. We don't often talk about what we're recovering to.
01:17:58:24 - 01:18:03:16
Wade
Hang on one second to.
01:18:03:18 - 01:18:05:26
Wade
So that's that's that's.
01:18:05:28 - 01:18:24:26
Evan
Oh, I think, ladies and gentlemen, I think we might have a dog that is throwing up. I think we'd heard the inevitable. Dog throw up. Dog throw up.
01:18:24:29 - 01:18:26:20
Wade
He tried.
01:18:26:23 - 01:18:27:04
Wade
We made.
01:18:27:04 - 01:18:29:03
Wade
It out. We made it out.
01:18:29:09 - 01:18:36:21
Evan
Okay. Do you want. Oh, second. Or do you want to just wrap up? Okay. That said, real quick. Oh, no need to let him back in in a minute.
01:18:36:23 - 01:18:38:00
Wade
No no, no. He's fine.
01:18:38:03 - 01:18:39:22
Evan
Oh. Okay. so.
01:18:39:22 - 01:18:41:12
Wade
Just like the.
01:18:41:15 - 01:19:00:18
Evan
Perfect. I'm talking about recovery. We know what recovering from something is. And I'm going to ask, what are we recovering to? And the question would be like, I'm recovering back to myself, which requires an understanding of self. Yeah. So I'm going to bring that up. And you want to talk about love and then we'll debrief from there I love it.
01:19:00:23 - 01:19:05:15
Evan
We'll wrap it up okay. Great. The m smile.
01:19:05:17 - 01:19:31:02
Evan
Okay. So a lot of the time we talk about recovering from something. When we think of recovery, we say recovering from an injury, recovering from an illness, recovering from a long day at work or a stressful season in life. I think we all experience that. Recovery kind of requires a destination, though. And so I wonder in this context, we know what we're recovering from, but what are we recovering to?
01:19:31:04 - 01:19:36:06
Wade
what a great question. And this, this idea of recovery, which is.
01:19:36:08 - 01:19:37:06
Wade
You know.
01:19:37:09 - 01:19:42:15
Wade
It's relatable to everyone. But I think that it's also relatable to.
01:19:42:18 - 01:19:43:03
Wade
you know.
01:19:43:06 - 01:19:43:18
Wade
We talk.
01:19:43:18 - 01:19:45:01
Wade
About, substance abuse.
01:19:45:01 - 01:19:47:00
Wade
Recovery. We talk about.
01:19:47:03 - 01:19:49:00
Wade
trauma recovery and all of that kind of stuff.
01:19:49:06 - 01:19:50:22
Wade
Recovering is.
01:19:50:24 - 01:19:51:27
Wade
Getting yourself.
01:19:51:27 - 01:19:56:26
Wade
Back to your true self, who you truly are. It is.
01:19:56:26 - 01:19:57:21
Wade
Recovering.
01:19:57:21 - 01:19:59:20
Wade
The lost self. And I think that's.
01:19:59:27 - 01:20:01:20
Wade
One thing that gaming can.
01:20:01:20 - 01:20:05:06
Wade
Help us do. We recover that which has.
01:20:05:06 - 01:20:05:27
Wade
Been.
01:20:05:29 - 01:20:07:04
Wade
Chiseled away.
01:20:07:04 - 01:20:08:25
Wade
Worn down.
01:20:08:27 - 01:20:09:22
Wade
eroded.
01:20:09:22 - 01:20:10:16
Wade
From the things of.
01:20:10:16 - 01:20:11:05
Wade
The world.
01:20:11:05 - 01:20:12:01
Wade
And so it's a.
01:20:12:01 - 01:20:15:08
Wade
Recovery to yourself.
01:20:15:11 - 01:20:21:06
Evan
That might be one of my favorite quotes that we've talked about.
01:20:21:09 - 01:20:21:26
Wade
It's cool.
01:20:21:26 - 01:20:25:14
Evan
Rhyming helps us recover our lost self.
01:20:25:17 - 01:20:26:02
Wade
right.
01:20:26:03 - 01:20:27:11
Evan
It's a great quote.
01:20:27:13 - 01:20:31:28
Wade
Isn't that awesome? And this is this is it. Like I grew up, you grew.
01:20:31:28 - 01:20:33:15
Wade
Up in a time when our.
01:20:33:15 - 01:20:33:29
Wade
Parents.
01:20:33:29 - 01:20:36:07
Wade
Didn't understand games or they understood.
01:20:36:07 - 01:20:37:28
Wade
Pong or Atari.
01:20:37:28 - 01:20:41:20
Wade
Or something like that. connect beginning Mario.
01:20:41:20 - 01:20:42:00
Wade
Sort of.
01:20:42:00 - 01:20:44:15
Wade
Stuff. And like, gaming was so new.
01:20:44:19 - 01:20:45:22
Wade
That it was.
01:20:45:24 - 01:20:46:09
Wade
Seen as.
01:20:46:09 - 01:20:48:01
Wade
Frivolous as the stuff of.
01:20:48:03 - 01:20:52:00
Wade
Nerds or niche communities and stuff that wouldn't do anything with.
01:20:52:00 - 01:20:53:29
Wade
Their lives. But here we're actually.
01:20:53:29 - 01:20:55:23
Wade
Finding that it can enhance and.
01:20:55:23 - 01:20:58:05
Wade
Elevate our lives to a whole.
01:20:58:06 - 01:20:58:27
Wade
New.
01:20:58:27 - 01:21:02:01
Wade
Psychosocial positive result.
01:21:02:01 - 01:21:03:27
Wade
And that is so cool to me.
01:21:03:27 - 01:21:04:18
Wade
I wish that I had.
01:21:04:18 - 01:21:07:03
Wade
This research and as a seven year old being like mom.
01:21:07:03 - 01:21:10:04
Wade
Look at this. But what seven year old would do that?
01:21:10:09 - 01:21:35:07
Evan
We did talk about that a lot around sports. And that was kind of how it was discussed was sports, hobbies, Boy Scouts, those kinds of. Yes. but I think the fact that they're more universally applicable to play and our hobbies and recreation in general, and that we have the research to now understand how those things happen in our play A really allows us to take advantage of what that is.
01:21:35:07 - 01:21:42:25
Evan
Well, thanks for, all the thoughts. And, can you quote our authors and the book again for the for the folks as we kind of wrap up the segment?
01:21:42:28 - 01:21:46:29
Wade
Absolutely. So the chapter is four pillars of healthy.
01:21:46:29 - 01:21:47:29
Wade
Escapism in games.
01:21:47:29 - 01:21:48:12
Wade
Emotional.
01:21:48:12 - 01:21:51:13
Wade
Regulation, mood management, coping and recovery.
01:21:51:13 - 01:21:51:28
Wade
By.
01:21:51:28 - 01:21:53:15
Wade
Mehmet Kosar and Ahmet.
01:21:53:22 - 01:21:56:18
Wade
We saw and you can get that.
01:21:56:20 - 01:21:57:04
Wade
in.
01:21:57:04 - 01:22:01:24
Wade
The full book, which is called Game User.
01:22:01:24 - 01:22:04:23
Wade
Experience and Player Centered Design.
01:22:04:23 - 01:22:06:11
Wade
By, Barbara.
01:22:06:15 - 01:22:07:15
Wade
Boston is the.
01:22:07:15 - 01:22:09:15
Wade
Editor.
01:22:09:17 - 01:22:12:02
Evan
That title is very catchy.
01:22:12:04 - 01:22:15:23
Wade
Read was just really it rolls off the tongue. That's amazing.
01:22:15:25 - 01:22:28:10
Evan
We'll have links to all this in the show notes. Yeah, we wrote, just to close this out. Thanks for the time, everybody. This has been video game vacation four ways to ensure Gaming Re-energized This Year. Thanks.
01:22:28:17 - 01:22:37:11
Evan
Hey everyone, welcome to our final segment which is our Gains Before Games segment. Prof does this with his students in his classroom. Tell us what we're all about.
01:22:37:13 - 01:22:54:04
Wade
In four games is all about feeding your, real life before you feed your gaming life. so getting those gains, whether it's physical, emotional, spiritual, mental, whatever it is, before you get into your games. And so I just promoting healthy practices.
01:22:54:10 - 01:23:09:07
Evan
Perfect. So we walk through four domains of life every four episodes. This is our first turn over back around to the physical domain. Yeah. So we're going to process a little bit about what we want to be different about our lives. And as you can of a physical challenge for us this week to kind of get us going.
01:23:09:07 - 01:23:24:15
Evan
So for you listener and viewer, we just want to say, hey, what's something physically that you picked up on or that this episode made you think about that could, help you kind of improve in your daily life? Mine was going out and taking a walk with a family member to socialize based on healthy relationships from episode one.
01:23:24:15 - 01:23:31:03
Evan
And it was great. It was wonderful. We had a very nice time. so physical domain. Wait, what do you think? In this week?
01:23:31:05 - 01:23:56:10
Wade
So I'm, it's July. I'm in the midst of playing Dawn trail. and Dawn trail. Final fantasy 14 is all about this vacation vibe. eating, quesadillas and making margaritas and all that kind of stuff. So I like, you know, it's like the whole fantasy, the reality sort of thing. it's July. I want to take physical proximity, of of, vacation and stuff.
01:23:56:10 - 01:24:22:21
Wade
So, again, it's sunny where I am. I'm going to be outside like, that's me for three months. and so the goal is I've got to physically get outside and do some things that are going to, rejuvenate me. while I've got some time off from work and all that kind of stuff. so really trying to live out that, physical relaxation piece that sometimes I can, neglect.
01:24:22:21 - 01:24:36:12
Wade
Sometimes I get so caught up in the gym and all that kind of stuff that, like, I forget, hey, let's just, let's enjoy, let's enjoy physical, physical, life outside, I don't know, maybe play some some pickleball. I don't know.
01:24:36:14 - 01:24:59:23
Evan
That ties in really well to what I was thinking about for the physical domain. And I was thinking about how I just don't feel like my exercise has been, like, physically challenging. Not to think like energy exerted isn't. I've been doing a lot of outside stuff, chores, walking the stuff, but I think I'm ready for like an excitement when it comes to exercise.
01:24:59:26 - 01:25:22:02
Evan
I think maybe some pickleball, some racquetball, maybe since it's so hot a little outside, I may introduce a little more challenge to kind of make my skill rise to the occasion a little bit, and make me exercise and be active in some ways that I wouldn't. If it's just me on the exercise bike or me walking, because I don't get terribly competitive with myself, but you throw in somebody else, then then we're on.
01:25:22:06 - 01:25:23:20
Evan
So. So this is.
01:25:23:27 - 01:25:49:18
Wade
this is great, opportunity to, to help our viewers and listeners, on this. How do you quantify that? So for me personally, I'm going to, have myself have three 30 minute, minute times where I am relaxing outside three 30 minute times a week. over the next month where I am relaxing outside. What about you?
01:25:49:20 - 01:25:58:22
Evan
I think I'm going to shoot for at least two up to six competitive exercise activities.
01:25:58:28 - 01:26:00:07
Wade
Oh, I love that.
01:26:00:09 - 01:26:07:10
Evan
That's awesome. That's what I'm going to go for. So there it is. So if you're a friend of mine and you're watching this or listening to this, you're ready. Hit me up. Let's go for.
01:26:07:10 - 01:26:09:11
Wade
It. Get smoked in some racquetball.
01:26:09:14 - 01:26:26:13
Evan
yeah. We got to get out that frustration somehow. Do you need a break? Are you even having fun? You need a break. Well, we won't let your rage quit baseball anymore. Thanks, Wade, for the discussion. And, we'll see you guys next segment.
01:26:28:10 - 01:26:48:01
Speaker 1
Thanks everyone for tuning in. A big thanks to sing, for the laughter, for the use of their music, and another shout outs and Nick Smith for the graphics. They're awesome. Thanks, Nick. Listener. We hope that you have had a fantastic day and we look forward to seeing you on our next episode.
